|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Eternal Masters (EMA)||Uncommon|
|Mercadian Masques (MMQ)||Common|
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Enchantment — Aura
Enchanted creature gets +2/+2 for each other enchantment in play.
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Ancestral Mask Discussion
1 week ago
Thanks for the in depth advice! That must have taken a lot of time. I appreciate it!
That's a lot to think about. Essentially, what you're suggesting is that I change my entire win strategy. Given my playgroup, I'm reticent to get rid of cards that have won me the game consistently like, Ancestral Mask. I appreciate in competitive play this isn't the case for enchantress decks, but I feel I, personally, wouldn't be having as much fun if I didn't get to smash face with a big creature.
I think I'll definitely make sure I have copies of all of the cards you've suggested so I can step it up if I need to go to a competitive scene, but I think if I was to make all the changes here I'd probably not enjoy playing the deck as much, and I'd probably step ahead of my current playgroup and isolate myself.
I'll need to give this a lot of thought to see what I'll be happy to switch in, and what I'll be too sad to see go, but that's such a useful guide to go off. So thanks so much for taking the time to go over it! I really appreciate it. =)
1 week ago
Sorry it took me so long, I suck at math and typing.
Okay, so first off, I'd suggest you drop high-costing cards. If they cost a lot (5+ mana with three colors, 6+ mana with two colors, 7+ mana with one color), and immediately win a game, they are worth it, as long as during normal, early-mid (Turns 1-6) game play, you can reach it with your ramp and manabase.
Now, onto the two cards that I believe fall under this "high-mana cost"-do-not-win-game card category:
Duneblast - This card is big, it leaves you with the best board state (Provided no opponent held up a counterspell, Heroic Intervention, Golgari Charm, Wrap in Vigor, Faith's Reward, or Teferi's Protection), but it does only help you get the best board state in terms of creatures. What creatures is the deck trying so hard to protect it couldn't run an Austere Command or Merciless Eviction over. I mean Day of Judgment/Damnation/Wrath of God feels better than this, because of your commander being able to pull off bringing back any board state you lost in them.
In Garruk's Wake - I hate this card, and love it at the same time, I mean, similar problem to Duneblast, and if you are going to make something expensive, go all the way, but 9 mana? At least personally, whenever a board-state has gotten out of hand, it has either A: been very early in the game, so people didn't have easy ways to deal with it, or B: be well protected, think an Archetype of Endurance+Avacyn, Angel of Hope being flipped from a turn 4 Tooth and Nail. The idea I want to make is a Merciless Eviction gets around anything, and come down for 2/3rds the price. I'd still rather see a Tragic Arrogance, as that card lets you pick the worst for all of your opponents, the best for you, and is sacrifice and choose, so they get around every keyword like Hexproof/Indestructible/Protection.
Now onto the next group of cards that need to go, cards that are good with enchantments, yet are not in fact enchantments, and could be replaced by enchantments:
Yavimaya Enchantress - Ooh it is by far the worst enchantress, Early game it does nothing but chump block, mid-game it blocks for real, late game it blocks and hopes someone has no creatures now that it has high damage. It will die if it gets large, because it has no built in protection, and generally just isn't very good in this deck.
Helm of the Gods - It's like Yavimaya Enchantress, except it doesn't have a body, so can't chump block early game, and doesn't count opponent's enchanments, and generally just isn't very good in this deck.
Blessed Spirits - It's a Yavimaya Enchantress that only counts enchantments put after him and doesn't count opponents enchantments, all to give him flying. At least he can deal damage through blockers, and though he has no protection, he is the best of the bunch. I still don't think he is worth keeping.
Celestial Ancient - Honestly, I have disliked this guy every time. People claim he is Cathars' Crusade levels of powerful, as in it isn't an enchantment (like Cathars' Crusade isn't a creature), and it places a bunch of counters on your creatures! This just isn't true though. Cathars' Crusade and effects like it (Coat of Arms/Door of Destinies in a tribal deck) are great because they aren't creatures, so they are harder to immediately remove. They also work because they are on enter the battlefield. If I put ten 1/1 creature tokens onto the battlefield with a spell, they all become 11/11's due to Cathars' Crusade, suddenly 10 power is 110 power. Casting enchantments doesn't have that effect. To pull off something similar, you'd have to cast either 10 actual enchantment creatures (You have 12 in total), or cast ten creatures/make ten tokens (Heliod, God of the Sun/Sigil of the Empty Throne) and then cast ten enchantments, which is difficult on many levels. The point is it looks really good, but it isn't.
Blightcaster - I love this card. No sarcasm, no until now or anything, it is a pet card of mine. That and Doomwake Giant are why I feel black should be greatly considered in the colors to use for enchantress. It is great, but without a lot of protection, tutors, and ramp, it falls short almost every time. If someone would be hurt by it, they remove it. It is a four mana do nothing, or Disfigure once or twice most of the time.
Auramancer - With a sacrifice outlet, and your commander, it feels good, because it can be a Regrowth for an enchantment on a repeatable engine, but that doesn't do it for this deck, and being a creature isn't enough, so I don't think it makes the cut.
Now onto the category of enchantments that I feel fall short in this deck. Whether they are too much mana, or not powerful enough, possibly their mana requirements are simply too much for this landbase.
Spectra Ward - It may be really cool, ooh look, I can turn any creature into a nearly untouchable (minus board wipes or enchantment removal+creature removal or colorless creature removal), unblockable (except colorless creatures), and it gets a power pump! +2/+2 isn't much in commander, and everyone runs sweepers. It is unblockable and untouchable until it isn't and I don't think such an effect belongs in any place other than a voltron build. Uril, The Mistalker maybe.
Ancestral Mask - Well, it is an iconic card. Sees play in voltron, bogles (voltron on tiny hexproofers), and sees play nowhere else. Trust me, no legacy enchantress list has used that card as a wincon, and in commander, it does find a place, but in voltron, and this deck isn't that.
Celestial Archon, for either it's bestow or normal casting cost, it is overpriced. It only does one thing, beat face. Serra Ascendant beats face at a rate per mana cost 7.5 to one. 15 to one if you count lifegain, and the only downside is not having first strike (Unless you consistently are beneath 30 life). Straight damage isn't the point of this deck though. It is about drawing card and then whittling your opponent to death whilst you combo out. This card doesn't help with that, and is 3 mana more than I would ever consider using (for both costs).
Ethereal Armor - Again, this is for voltron and bogles, not for enchantress.
Fate Unraveler - This is a Nekusar, the Mindrazer card. It is in the same vein as Underworld Dreams, a great card, especially if there is Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind combo in your meta. Fate Unraveler however gets pinged four times by Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and dies. It isn't a card for this deck on the premise that you are attempting to draw cards, and unless you have seen a ton of Enter the Infinite decks lying around, it does very little but paints a target on your head.
Armament of Nyx - This card is a trap. It looks on the outset to be a Battle Mastery that doubles as removal, but it is worse than Guard Duty or Pacifism at removal (cost, and the creature can block), and you wouldn't want to run either effect. A card that does one of two bad effects is rarely good. In this case, one of the effects is useless (double strike is a voltron card), and the other is nearly useless (or completely outclassed by Journey to Nowhere).
Grim Guardian - You run 40 enchantments. All 40 need to drop for this to win (Or most and a few that can bounce). You do not do that with this card. If you are using it to whittle, and win in combat, it also won't do. Greater Auramancy, Sterling Grove, Privileged Position or any tutor to find them comes down to inconsistently to protect him over multiple turns, so he will consistently just be removal bait, or useless. Great finisher in place of Altar of the Brood for Parallax Wave Combo, so run it if you run the combo, and some more tutors.
Underworld Coinsmith - Without lifegain synergies, he doesn't win. For value though, and he becomes very interesting. Honestly I find him to be a powerful card. Without Mana Bloom, Cloudstone Curio, Parallax Wave combo however, I don't think he is powerful enough to make the cut.
Karametra, God of Harvests - This feels bad. If it said enchantment, it's have 40+ triggers, but with out, it is just bad. Mirari's Wake is a much better version, to the point an extra tutor would be better than this. 9 lands is the maximum this can fetch, with your manabase, and that is over 9 cast triggers. It's rarely happen, so I'd estimate this to be a Gilded Lotus level of power, that enters tapped, and takes 2-3 turns to set up. It's only in here because it is an enchantment, and that isn't worth it.
Courser of Kruphix - It gives slight card advantage in the form of knowing you next card, and digging one if you find a land. Keep in mind that the land you play from top uses up for 1 land per turn (or two with Exploration), and doesn't give you any extra drops like Oracle of Mul Daya. Otherwise, the lifegain is negligible, and it blocks decently. Since it reveals all of your draws, Pithing Needles and Nevermores/Meddling Mages will all be more potent from your opponents. It is decent, but not good enough.
Quarantine Field - Removal, which I used for a time, but realized, at four mana it is a bad Banishing Light, at 6 mana, it is way to expensive not to be a board wipe. It has two modes, and any more than 6 is absurd. With mana it isn't worth it, because there are better outlets, like a Torment of Hailfire for something that wins game. It has another mode though, . I have actually cast this for more times than I have or above, because I get a cast trigger. It isn't worth it for the choices though. Journey to Nowhere, Banishing Light, Song of the Dryads, and Darksteel Mutation are all much better (the last two can even shut off commanders!)
Budget 20 cards to toss in: (No cards above 3 dollars by tcgplayer prices.)
Darksteel Mutation - It is removal for commanders, and that is about all, but I'd say is worth it.
Mana Bloom - Extra fixing, card advantage, and ramp. Cheap card in game and in real life.
Blind Obedience - Shuts off many combos, slows artifact mana, and is generally an anti-combo card. Extort is a nice bonus, but is rarely useful.
Authority of the Consuls - Same as above, but turn one play, only works on creatures, and a lot of added lifegain.
Prison Term - This card is a pet card. I love the moving around ability. It is very useful, and is a threat to any Azami, Lady of Scrolls or something like Narset, Enlightened Master where even hexproof gets gotten around when it moves.
Wild Growth - See above, remove fixing.
Weirding Wood - Replaces itself, fixes, ramps.
Abundance - Stops you form milling out (by replacing draws with reveals, when it can't reveal anything, it stops, and you don't lose the game), gives card advantage when you flip past cards you don't need, and it can't hurt since it is a may replacement effect, so you can always not reveal if you don't want to give out information.
Commune with the Gods - Powerful card draw, fills the yard.
Total cost of these twenty card: $17.25 (USD) not including taxes or shipping from tcgplayer
All of these changes will lead to a net increase of 8 enchantments, and that will leave you at 48 enchantments total, so you will only averagely need 2 enchantress effects to have access to your whole deck given infinite mana. possibly just 1 enchantress and Abundance
2 weeks ago
ForTheOldFrame Thanks for all the suggestions, but I think in the second set of suggestions, there isn't anything among them that would add to the current strategy more than my current cards do.
I've decided to stick with Spectra Ward, even though the casting cost is high, it has one ability that puts it on top and that is that it's effect doesn't remove other auras, whereas if I were to Flickering Ward, say green, it would cause Ancestral Mask (which is one of my main win cons) to fall off whereas Spectra Ward wouldn't and it gives all color protection and +2/+2 to boot.
I actually decided to keep Broken Fall in the end, because it has essentially a free return to hand cost, and it can spare one of my enchantresses or my commander from a boardwipe if needs be.
Thanks for the tips! =)
1 month ago
So I have a Uril deck that I have been working on for a while so I am going to make some suggestions to take out, the reason why, and then will give some cards I feel you should use if you can get ahold of them. So some general suggestions is to avoid fieldwipes that also hurt you a lot, secondly run very few creatures. Honestly mana dorks and the enchantress' are all that I really run so the major suggestion I would say is to cut down on the creatures and mostly leave dorks/enchantress' like Mesa Enchantress or things like Herald of the Pantheon which make auras cheaper. Another thing are instants and sorceries, the majority of those should be targeted removal and mass removal or land grab spells like Swords to Plowshares, Day of Judgment, or Rampant Growth. Some specifics on those are Titanic Ultimatum isn't awesome if you only have one creature, which is all you generally need to win. (Uril, the Miststalker) Including the other pump spells i would say aren't great with Uril because he pumps so much anyways. Predator's Rapport isn't a terrible one as it can get you some life if you need but their might be a better option if you really want to keep that in. Alright, on to the enchantments. I would say that out of auras, Ancestral Mask and Bear Umbra are your best two, the others I like are Dryad's Favor and Indestructibility and finally Rancor. Other than those three I would say most of your aura's are just a tad weak. Out of normal enchantments I would almost avoid these with a fiery passion, other than protection of course. I would say Oblivion Ring is the only one I for sure would say to keep in (yes I know it's an aura but you don't target uril with it.). Other than those I would say that you mostly want auras, other than removal or extremely powerful cards. Alright, on to suggestions: The major suggestions I would make for auras would be these Armadillo Cloak, Ethereal Armor, Flickerform, Runes of the Deus, Scourge of the Nobilis, Shield of the Oversoul, Spectra Ward, Spirit Mantle, Unquestioned Authority, and finally Vow of Wildness along with any of the umbras. (boar, spider, and hyena for example.) Some normal enchantments I like are: Burgeoning for ramp, Dueling Grounds and Ghostly Prison for protection. Also, Mayael's Aria and Sigil of the Empty Throne for alternate win cons and finally Sterling Grove for search and protection. The artifacts should be general ramp or mana fixing with maybe a Helm of the Gods for boosting. The wipes I use are Austere Command for when you really run into crap and Winds of Rath and Divine Reckoning because they don't normally hit uril so he doesn't die. I use Retether and Open the Vaults for recursion and Enlightened Tutor and Three Dreams for tutor and my two targeted removal is just Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile. Those are just my general suggestions. If you want to look at my deck you can go to Uril the miststalker
2 months ago
From your description in the EDH forum thread it sounds like your group isn't playing enough mass disruption to break up board states. Your commander is indestructible, less than a fifth of your deck is creatures and only half of them really matter beyond ETBs, you're set up to play wrath heavy. Wrath of God, Austere Command, Winds of Rath, Day of Judgment, and Rout are crazy efficient in multiplayer. In you have enough answers to spot-exile/disenchant problem targets that you don't need to crack yourself with more broad/powerful wipes like Hour of Devastation or Hallowed Burial.
I know wraths are scary when you're coming from another format, but this is multiplayer against decks built to go long and you control when/if you play them. Quarantine Field would cost to hit a single target for each of 3 players, Wrath hits every single one of their creatures for half that and gets around shroud/hexproof.
Beyond that, here's some suggestions for threats and cuts. There's a lot so I'll hold back on justifying them unless asked.
- Summer Bloom < Explore - A card like this needs to replace itself with a draw. Chance of Summer Bloom being a dead/inefficient draw at any given point in the game is too high
- Zendikar Resurgent < Mirari's Wake - You don't have many cast triggers for creatures, tokens will benefit from the buff
- Awakening < Brave the Sands / Radiant Destiny / Sight of the Scalelords - Better that your creatures just have vigilance than giving everyone on the table a free Seedborn Muse
- Oath of the Ancient Wood < Ancestral Mask / Ethereal Armor
- Restock < Greenwarden of Murasa / Eternal Witness / Praetor's Counsel
- Rampant Growth < Kodama's Reach / Cultivate / Nature's Lore / Three Visits - The first two are coveted for giving you two cards for one, if you wanna stay with the lower CMC the latter two can hit Savannah, Canopy Vista, or Temple Garden if you ever pick one up
- Nyx-Fleece Ram
- Helix Pinnacle - Cute, but a complete dead draw in terms of impact on board state, and impotent in a vacuum. You can win for less than = 101, and yes that includes an optimal situation with mana doubles and effects like Awakening
- Kismet / Blind Obedience - You've said they're filler, which they pretty much are if you aren't building around them
- Words of Wilding / Words of Worship - You're way too concerned about decking out. If the cards you're drawing are less helpful than a 2/2 or 5 life you need to cut those cards
That's a lot of words, I hope you find some of them helpful!
4 months ago
Noch ein paar Vorschlge:
5 months ago
Monti_Jones Thanks for the ideas. I think the types of deck we're running are fundamentally different. Graveyard interaction in my deck is quite down-played so cards like Sun Titan, Nighthowler and Femeref Enchantress don't really have as much interaction the way I play. I really only play Karador mostly for colors and to get my Eternal Witness out for multiple shots at casting Replenish
I usually aim to have my graveyard full and then do a mass recursion with Replenish or Open the Vaults. I also run the full protection suite as you noticed, so my stuff doesn't tend to end up in the graveyard as much.
I do like the idea of Heliod's Pilgrim but I'm not sure she's really any better than my other tutors. However she does have the added bonus of being a creature and being recurrable. I'll have a think on that one, as my main win cons really are Ancestral Mask and/or Ethereal Armor.
I'll take a look at your deck too. It's nice to see different takes on a familiar theme.