[Community Discussion]: Modern Chat
Modern forum
Posted on April 25, 2015, 8:42 p.m. by Epochalyptik
This thread is dedicated entirely to Modern. Feel free to post your thoughts on the meta, ideas for your next decklist, and just chat generally about the format!
Of course, you can always start a new thread if you're interested in discussing one particular aspect of the format; this thread should be used for the quick thoughts and informal questions about the format.
This discussion will be ongoing; you are free to post here as long as you're on topic.
This is NOT a deck help thread. Please do not spam deck help requests.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #2
Well Kaladesh, an artifact-centric plane is coming up... Pseudo-Strix? I feel like Kaladesh is going to be sweet, and I'm still in EMN hype mode :P
@kengiczar I'm just gonna assume you meant eternal masters and commander product or something along those lines
July 12, 2016 12:38 a.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #3
Well Kaladesh, an artifact-centric plane is coming up... Pseudo-Strix? I feel like Kaladesh is going to be sweet, and I'm still in EMN hype mode :P
@kengiczar I'm just gonna assume you meant eternal masters and commander product or something along those lines
July 12, 2016 12:39 a.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #4
Well Kaladesh, an artifact-centric plane is coming up... Pseudo-Strix? I feel like Kaladesh is going to be sweet, and I'm still in EMN hype mode :P
@kengiczar I'm just gonna assume you meant eternal masters and commander product or something along those lines
July 12, 2016 12:39 a.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #5
Well Kaladesh, an artifact-centric plane is coming up... Pseudo-Strix? I feel like Kaladesh is going to be sweet, and I'm still in EMN hype mode :P
@kengiczar I'm just gonna assume you meant eternal masters and commander product or something along those lines
July 12, 2016 12:39 a.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #6
Well Kaladesh, an artifact-centric plane is coming up... Pseudo-Strix? I feel like Kaladesh is going to be sweet, and I'm still in EMN hype mode :P
@kengiczar I'm just gonna assume you meant eternal masters and commander product or something along those lines
July 12, 2016 12:39 a.m.
Hahahahahaha, 6 comments. lmao You still on dial-up bro? XD
July 12, 2016 1:37 a.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #9
Well Internet was bugging out...
Is this a tapped out record?
July 12, 2016 10:41 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #10
I don't think so. If I recall correctly, someone trying to make a new forum on modern deck help tried to post it and they managed to reach at least double digits before they gave up.
July 12, 2016 11 a.m.
JaceArveduin says... #11
I don't know about the rest of that, but Arachnogenesis would be something I'd love to have in Modern. Imagine how much fun it'd be against affinity!
July 12, 2016 6:06 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #12
I'd love to play Baleful Strix in modern. I don't think it'd be oppressive by any means, yet it's a super fun card that forces decks to creatively interact or get defeated by value.
July 12, 2016 6:25 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #13
Seems gross.
Throw it in a Grixis deck with Kommand and you just blank your opponents Goyfs and Stuff.
Guaranteed 2 for 1 in some of the best colours seems pretty oppressive to me.
July 12, 2016 7:18 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #14
Double post. Not sorry.
Cheeky combo for the non spiky...Geier reach sanctum and Spirit of the Labyrinth.
July 12, 2016 7:24 p.m.
What do people think is the weakest color in modern in the current meta?
July 12, 2016 7:56 p.m.
I thought I would add this to the forum for those who may want to start playtesting with or against this. I think this becomes a legitimate paper combo deck thanks to Sigarda's Aid. Any thoughts or feedback on how you think this archetype will evolve are most welcome! Ohthenoises and I have been brainstorming over this for a couple days.
Modern Cheerios
Modern
9 COMMENTS | 48 VIEWS
July 12, 2016 8:01 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #18
I just want to figure out how to port the madness vampires over to modern because I'm obsessive like that. New lord really makes it come close. I think the deck really just needs evasion now since it plays at instant speed.
July 12, 2016 9:28 p.m.
So is it Olivia or Falkenrath Gorger that prompts you to want to try vamps in modern?
July 12, 2016 10:19 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #20
Probably both when combined with the new lord.
Vampire Lacerator is pretty tempting as well.
Finally, Stromkirk Noble has suprisingly a lot of relevance in modern. (Stuff like Tasigur and Melira are humans lol.)
July 12, 2016 10:21 p.m. Edited.
Oh this bro? (SPOILER) I had to read it again.. thought it was just that one that got the buff.
I really hope Vampires catch on and are as strong as Merfolk. But I have a feeling that the tribe is still closer to zombies in terms of modern competitiveness.
July 12, 2016 10:37 p.m.
Actually yeah why are we even discussing playing Vampires without CoCo?
I understand once you splash green you'll want to throw up your hands and say "why don't I just play Jund" in exasperation... but hey having CoCo and Abrupt Decay is worth it still IMO.
July 12, 2016 10:58 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #24
Yeah the real downfall comes in the fact that we have only one lord at cmc 2 and have very little ways of interacting without taking away from the aggressive game plan. However, Collective Brutality is one such way that might Change. I'm envisioning a deck that plays well against countering.
Also Olivia is not a good card for modern. She is far too slow
July 12, 2016 10:59 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #25
They dilute the game plan. For one thing, you won't be getting near the same value out of your Coco.
July 12, 2016 11:01 p.m.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #26
I mean there is Stromkirk Captain but he seems bad.
There's also Kalitaa and Kalastria Highborn for late in the game. Bloodghast also seems great with discard.
July 13, 2016 12:46 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #27
Gatekeeper of Malakir seems good as long as we're 2 color.
July 13, 2016 12:54 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #28
I'll toss up a preliminary list based on my current standard list when I get home in an hour
July 13, 2016 1:21 a.m.
Seems like BUG Delver would get the most value/cheap/brokenness from Eldritch Evolution. That would make sense since I just traded all but 1 of my misty rainforests and verdant catacombs and now I will want them back.
July 13, 2016 11:03 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #33
I think you guys are becoming slave to the synergy. A delver deck has no reason to set up a mandrills just to sac it. It can just easily win by going to town with the delve creature.
Save your eldrevos for tool box style gameplay where it really shines and gets the maximum value.
July 13, 2016 11:28 a.m.
Yeah BUG Delver, I'm going to put a list together and try it out if not just for fun. Probably better off just using Through the Breach to cheat things into play, but we'll see. I have some interesting ideas.
July 13, 2016 12:17 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #35
I've been toying with RUG delver to play Gnarlwood Dryad and it seems okay. Getting advantage for Goyf, Snap, and Dryad off of Thought Scour is really good. Evolution is probably best saved for toolbox decks though. Kiki-Chord and Abzan Evolution, both playing an infinite combo (kiki-resto or archangel of tithes) seem like the best shells.
Gnarlwood Dryad dies to bolt, which is annoying, but in any non-bolt matchup he's awesome.
July 13, 2016 12:17 p.m.
RUG Delver is fine. Good, even. It's the concept of Delver and Snapcaster without Bolt in Modern that set off my Jank alarm. The problem with going in on the Gnarlwood Dryad strategy in a deck that already has Goyf and Snappy, though, is that you are then super soft to graveyard hate. Granted, RUG can actually do something about graveyard hate cards (unlike Grixis), but it's a bit of a concern.
July 13, 2016 12:22 p.m. Edited.
I mean eldritch evo can go anywhere and accumulate value but you don't just jam a 3 mana sorcery into every deck you play. Especially not a tempo deck.
July 13, 2016 12:26 p.m.
I realize it's probably too cute to work, but here's the general idea. Get a Tasigur, Gurmag, Shambling Attendants or Sibsig Muckdraggers into play asap! have a bit of a toolbox like: Iona, Shield of Emeria Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur Moldgraf Monstrosity Reya Dawnbringer Blazing Archon Prince of Thralls Platinum Emperion Worldspine Wurm Woodfall Primus Bogardan Hellkite Magister Sphinx... You get the idea. + counterspells and stuff.
July 13, 2016 12:43 p.m.
BUGolution Here's my quickly thrown together rough draft, I don't care if it sucks or not, it looks fun.
July 13, 2016 1:28 p.m.
Then why bother slapping the "Competitive" tag on it? It's for funsies.
July 13, 2016 4:43 p.m.
I will try to make it competitive! I usually throw that on any deck, not that it really seems to help me get any views or comments anyway. Probably cut down to just 6 and 7 cmc delve creatures and mostly 7, 8 and a couple big 9s to evolve into.
July 13, 2016 4:55 p.m.
To be honest, I don't see how Eldritch Evolution is going to get you there. Sultai can probably put a competitive deck together, but it basically needs to be the love child of Jund and Grixis Control with some tweaks to account for the lack of Lightning Bolt and Kolaghan's Command. If you want a competitive use of Eldritch Evolution in a value deck, I think you should experiment with a 4c toolbox deck that kills people with combos (basically Kiki Chord with some extra bells and whistles). That archetype is begging to be explored.
July 13, 2016 8:26 p.m. Edited.
Already got a Kiki chord deck with every toolbox creature possible. No doubt Evolution is going in that deck and Abzan company, but I still think there's a lot more ideas to explore. (before the card maybe gets banned :)
July 13, 2016 10:35 p.m.
I don't think it will get banned. I'm still unconvinced it's as good as Collected Company, honestly.
July 13, 2016 10:58 p.m.
rothgar13 I agree. I doubt it's going to get banned. It can be disrupted, and it's no Birthing Pod. It will have great synergy in Abzan, and maybe 4C Kiki, but I'm in no way convinced it's bannable in modern.
July 13, 2016 11:12 p.m.
rothgar13 - Eldritch Evolution is a very, very interesting card, no doubt. I think what it offers is very different to CoCo for a variety of reasons and we should be using it according to its strengths, not just jamming it everywhere.
The first note is that Eldritch Evo is card disadvantage. You trade two smaller resources for one larger one. That's technically poor play in the same way the Devour X mechanic is poor play. However, if the payoff is large enough then obviously it's an enticing deal. Avoid playing this card if you're going to idly grab a low impact 5-8 drop. Do play this card to assemble a game-winning combo or have some absurd ETB that smashes decks, such as Iona, Shield of Emeria or Hornet Queen or something else. On the other hand CoCo is card advantage with small creatures. They're very different.
The second thing to note is that CoCo goes 3cmc and below. This is why everyone started using the Melira combo with it, which as we know, isn't the best creature combo in modern - but it's the only one that CoCo can find. No kiki, no archangel. CoCo likes weenie decks, which are fine, but in my opinion no where near as good as the old value-pod decks that played Reveillark, Restoration Angel, Archangel of Thune, Thragtusk, Siege Rhino etc. THAT was a powerful deck because it assembled a two-card combo, was in popular colours, had access to removal, and played more value creatures than Kiki-Chord does just by nature of the fact that it's a slower aggro deck with an "oops I win" button attached. Eldritch Evolution let's us go larger instead of wide due its X+2 mana restriction. CoCo allows us to go wider and accrue value in vulnerable decks that require many parts. Evo allows us to go larger in decks that thrive off ETB value and smaller combos.
Both Evo and Coco are one-shot effects whereas Pod was multi-use. Therefore going large on a HUGE toolbox is probably not the correct way to play Evo. You might see one or two a game, which means you won't get a whole lot of tutoring done. Make sure you can hardcast most of your threats. Maybe not all, but most. Have a deck that functions largely without Eldritch Evo, in the same way Abzan CoCo decks work without CoCo. It might not work amazingly well - but it's able to do something. Both CoCo and Evo are similar in this respect but its easier with Evo to get excited and throw like 8 copies of some Progenitus type creature in a deck and then be disappointed when you have terrible draws and only get to actually cast one Evo per game.
Evo is higher risk than CoCo. CoCo countered? That sucks but you still have a board presence presumably. Evo countered? Ok, you just sacrificed a creature and lost a sorcery, and got nothing. Evo is a card that carries high risk. A lot of the strategies we've talked about are "all eggs in one basket". Landing a huge Delve threat. Getting Allosaurus into play. Both of these require a large concerted effort to stick a single creature on the board that is then totally exposed to everything the opponent can throw at it. This isn't a simple "dies to doom blade" argument. This is saying that in some cases it seems like if your Delve threat or Allosaurus is countered or killed, where do you go from there? You either have an empty hand or an empty graveyard and a 3 mana sorcery you can't actually cast. Be careful. CoCo is good whether you're ahead or behind. Evo can't be cast in some cases if you're behind. Maybe we should avoid throwing a card that's easy to disrupt into a deck that has an overarching all-in strategy that's easy to disrupt (like GY based stuff).
CoCo tends to box thinking in and herd people into using it correctly due to its 3cmc limitation. Evo is a lot more open because it just says cmc X+2 which leads people to make these incredible leaps based on value chains that probably won't happen. CoCo is a conservative card that forces you to run 1-3 drops, which is a good thing in modern because those are your bread and butter as a creature deck. Evo traps people into thinking they can go Restoration Angel into Sun Titan into Avacyn, Angel of Hope. I mean, sure, you CAN. But you need to work with the numbers. 4 Eldritch Evolution in a deck. Not huge chances of drawing any one. 4 Restoration Angel in a deck (even that's a bit absurd by itself). Again, not huge chances of drawing one. Before this you need to solidify T1 and T2 so you don't just lose the game. You need to make sure your Resto doesn't die. You need to make sure your Evo isn't countered. There are a lot of factors to think about, and humans are incredibly vulnerable to best-case-scenario thinking. By all means, let your imagination run wild but please don't take it too far and end up with a deck that resembles a tower of bricks, where if you remove just a single one from the foundation it all topples down into oblivion.
I dont like CoCo with Evo in the same deck. They're chalk and cheese as far as I'm concerned. Worlds apart.
I don't like Evo in decks with poor redundancy and brittle strategies. The card is fairly easy to disrupt as it is, so I would like to see it with a good foundation under it, not a shaky one.
I don't like Evo in KikiChord simply because KikiChord was a response to both Twin and Pod being banned. It's a good, but not ideal, deck. The manabase is a total mess, it skimps on removal, and it lacks a lot of redundancy. There is a reason it's not a major player in the metagame.
I would like to see Evo go into a deck made for Evo. Simplify the manabase. Feel free to take a much slower approach. Run a lot of redundant 2 and 3 drops that present value even if they die (Voice/Finks). Run a toolbox of 4 and 5 drops you can grab. Some silver bullets, some "oops I win" combos. Diversify it but make sure they're all useful and useable in a variety of situations. Focus on cards that are castable. Shy away from including a plethora of 6 and 7 drops - be realistic. You might want a Sun Titan or two, but don't go absolutely mental.
So in my humble opinion, and take it all with a grain of salt because by no means do I know everything, or even that much really, is that CoCo is great at doing Melira combo and quick decks with low to the ground threats.
Eldritch evolution is great at taking well constructed decks that revolve around turns 2-3 (slightly slower than the CoCo) decks and pushing them into the 4-6cmc territory, but doing it in a measured and careful way.
That's what I think.
July 14, 2016 4:42 a.m.
I agree with a lot of that, except that I find Kiki-Chord to be a pretty damn good deck when played right. I think at least 2 copies of Evo will be great in there. On the flip side that's also why I like it with blue so you can try to leave up a bit of mana for a counterspell of some sort. I was mostly joking about it being banned since it has a lot of drawbacks. I really need to get back on one of those testing programs, but have no free time lately, so maybe just proxy a few cards to test with friends. BTW, if anyone thinks of anymore crushing 7-9 cmc ETB creatures that I'm not thinking of please let me know, thanks!
July 14, 2016 8:48 a.m.
I can't wait to Remand Eldritch Evolution and watch my opponent cry. I'm very excited. lol
July 14, 2016 1 p.m.
EverythingIsK says... #50
I really do think having eldritch evolution in a sultai build is the best case for it since it has access to delve guys and counter magic to save itself from other counterspells you'll obviously find yourself against.
A spell Pierce and remand in hand is needed to land evolution, or to potentially protect your evolved creature.
SwaggyMcSwagglepants says... #1
Well Kaladesh, an artifact-centric plane is coming up... Pseudo-Strix? I feel like Kaladesh is going to be sweet, and I'm still in EMN hype mode :P
@kengiczar I'm just gonna assume you meant eternal masters and commander product or something along those lines
July 12, 2016 12:38 a.m.