Wheel of Sun and Moon
Enchantment — Aura
If a card would be put into enchanted player's graveyard from anywhere, instead that card is revealed and put on the bottom of that player's library.
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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Wheel of Sun and Moon occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.0%
Wheel of Sun and Moon Discussion
1 week ago
I have considered both of those cards. Wheel of Sun and Moon is probably not going in since this deck uses more traditional ways of recursion and little tutors, i.e enchantments are more useful in my graveyard than they are in my deck. I could use it as way to shut down decks like Meren of Clan Nel Toth or Chainer, Dementia Master, but that seems a bit narrow. I'll think about it more though.
Archon of Sun's Grace is absolutely going in, as soon as I can get a copy of it.
The problem with planeswalkers in enchantress decks is that the creature count can be low, and enchantments like Propaganda don´t help you protect them. Estrid, the Masked is an exception since her +2 can untap an enchanted Tuvasa to protect herself. Also, since I have an Academy Rector I can cheat Omniscience into play as well.
1 week ago
Quantum_Breaker Well, pioneer only reminds me of a lot of the modern commander variants or the brawl variants, both of which failed. It would perhaps bring more immediate attraction to the format, but I doubt it would do well long term since it would stifle creativity.
You want to use multiple decks and rarity restrictions to create interesting gameplay? I respect that.
Don't shuffle the decks. Make the first deck Pauper, the second one Peasant, the third with rares, uncommons, and commons, the last just a commander deck. This makes rarity easier and means you can run budget cards in all 4 decks, each of them a real deck, progressively better and better.
This fixes two major gameplay issues and still allows for upgrading deck, which seems to be the point of this format. You can even have different sleeves on each of the decks, for easy sorting.
Now, what else is there? You want to fill a role that Commander doesn't play, so I came up with a couple of ideas, you could have an actual format where there are games two and three and even four, slowly moving up the ranks.
Since there would be 4 games, the games should be shorter, 20 life perhaps. Perhaps something like 30 card decks, but the issue lies with mill, perhaps an effect to stop it, like giving both players shroud, or having a Wheel of Sun and Moon effect always out, etc.
Perhaps there is a point per match, where if you end 2/2 it is a tie or whatever, but I like the idea of a benefit you can get each game per win, for example, if you win game 1, you get 5 life and an extra card, if you won two games you get 10 life and two extra cards (extra cards meaning opening hand AND maximum hand size), etc.
Then the General battle would be the deciding winning factor. With this in mind, you can know that aggro is a real contender, something that it isn't in normal EDH, giving this format much more of an interesting take, additionally, though your colors stay the same, the actual decks can change each match, giving a lot of powerful strategies, going aggro-control-midrange-combo is a real possibility!
You may also want to have other uses for multiple decks, like a team battle, but I like the idea of making it a round-by-round match, though it would use work.
1 week ago
Archon can pump out Pegasi tokens with Lifelink to bolster board presence.
I had Omniscience in my original Tuvasa deck, but swapped it out for Tamiyo, Field Researcher. Her ultimate is basically an Omniscience that can't be removed. Her other two abilities can help if you are voltron focused.
1 week ago
In terms of cuts to add the things I suggested:
- Bear Umbra is powerful ramp if you can tutor it out. I get that you want the infinite Earthcraft combo, but maybe you can cut Land Tax? At least the Umbra doubles as totem armor.
- Swap Arrest for some of the other Auras which completely disable permanents/creatures.
- How often has Quarantine Field gone off for anything above 2?
- Birds, Paradise Druid and Caryatid seem unneeded.
- Bow and Spear? I run mana rocks, Quietus Spike (maybeboard) and Grafted Exoskeleton.
- Serra's (Blessing, Embrace) are potentially underpowered. Though vigilance is very good in here.
- I think you can cut some lands for mana rocks, personally. It lets you ramp faster on average.
- I'm on the fence about Femeref Enchantress. She's boardwipe insurance and that's it. There are other ways to recover from wipes (Wheel of Sun and Moon), and without unlim hand size you lose a bunch to the grave. I'd suggest the land inclusions plus Renaissance.
- Frontier Siege ??
2 weeks ago
Yep, Wheel of Sun and Moon is overall a stronger hate piece once on the battlefield than Tormod's Crypt. I still think it's close enough to make the cheaper option worth it, personally. Tormod's Crypt is actually stronger in some ways- it's much more difficult for the Dredge player to answer, even if it doesn't do quite as much to stop their game plan. And that's not even to mention the possibility of Grafdigger's Cage. Lots of close options!
I would happily work on a Pioneer list! I've actually been considering it myself for a while. There's a couple different paths we can go down here. There's the version with Llanowar Elves and Elvish Mystic that optimizes Lovestruck Beast and some higher CMC things. Personally a version closer to this deck might interest me more, what do you think?
2 weeks ago
Anytime! I LOVE discussing Stompy.
I've honestly considered porting the list over to Pioneer but the ban of Once Upon a Time due to a completely different deck, and the loss of Rancor definitely killed my fervor. Maybe we could work together on porting the deck to Pioneer? Thoughts?
On the topic of Rancor - I completely agree with you on its strength, especially with Syr Faren. My issue with Rancor is that multiples are often weaker then a single recurring copy. Also I have no single card I am interesting in cutting in favor of another Rancor. I did admit that cutting a Dryad Militant might be possible, but I would rather replace it with another creature for consistencies' sake. Hope that makes sense.
VERY good argument on the same devotion count by player a 2-drop and a Tormod's Crypt as playing a single Wheel of Sun and Moon. I believe my bias on the issue is graveyard deck resiliency. I would rather have a permanent in play that they HAVE to answer, over a one time effect that they can just recover from. But I definitely see your point and don't fault that choice at all.
Keep in touch.
2 weeks ago
Thanks for the well thought-out response! Yeah, it's too bad that modern isn't being played quite as much since the introduction of Pioneer :(
You may have convinced me to cut a Hexdrinker, I'll have to think about it some more.
I totally am starting to see where you're coming from with the more Syr Faren, the Hengehammer-based build. I think that's a bit of a different route to go down, but seems like a strong variant. Syr Faren is basically as explosive as it gets when things go right, but I having to cast combat tricks on it pre-combat (for this reason I would argue that Rancor is actually the strongest combo with Sry Faren), as well as it being very weak as the only creature on the battlefield are both significant downsides. Don't get me wrong though, Syr Faren, the Hengehammer is a fantastic card and I don't criticize you for running more than me.
I forgot that Once Upon a Time lets you cut lands! Makes sense!
I can also see where you're coming from with the sideboard choices, but my philosophy is as follows: Take the example of Wheel of Sun and Moon vs. Tormod's Crypt. Let's says you side them in against Dredge, and draw one of them turn two. It is true that taking a turn to cast Wheel of Sun and Moon would leave you with two devotion. If you had Tormod's Crypt, however, you could play it AND slam a Strangleroot Geist- in this scenario you also end up with two devotion but don't miss out on valuable tempo (which could be crucial if they have a answer to your hate piece). Yes, the equation changes if you run out of other things to be doing, but at that point in the game I think you're probably dead anyways, or will have at least already used your Aspect of Hydra. What do you think of this logic? I could be way off.
2 weeks ago
Ah, a fellow mono-green stompy player! I've been testing a version of this deck for a while, and would love to compare lists! I agree with so many of the points you brought up in your deck description, so I think we're pretty much on the same wavelength here. However, there are still a few noticeable differences between our lists that I would like to discuss:
Here's my list: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/curving-my-way-to-saturday/?cb=1580259272
For our 1-drops: I prefer value Experiment One to Pelt Collector, but they are so close it's not much of a talking point. I do only run six of those total, as in testing I have found hands with multiple of them to be sub-optimal (since I would rather have something that evolves the first one rather than the second). Probably the largest difference between our lists is that I run three copies of Hexdrinker. I have indeed found it to be a useful mana-sink, with little opportunity cost. I do love Dryad Militant, but went down to three copies since their ability doesn't stack. As for 2-drops: I have yet to test Syr Faren, the Hengehammer thoroughly, but you may have convinced me to add a copy or two. If you indeed end up running three I would finish the playset of Rancor. My 2-drop count is a bit lower than yours, but that's just me. Lands: I run 20 lands and it has felt good, so I was a bit surprised to see only 18. Traditional burn runs 20, and if anything I think this deck does a better job utilizing more mana. Also I missed Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers until I saw your list (thanks!!) but would also suggest Pendelhaven. Hitting for one extra damage with Experiment One after a sweeper has won me the game before. Spells: I'm not a fan of Once Upon a Time in this deck I think, but lmk how it's been playing. Just seems too bad to draw into. Sideboard: I run Feed the Clan and the new Setessan Petitioner instead of Life Goes On, but have agonized over it for a while and can see both sides. I also think the raw power of Veil of Summer may just make it better than Shapers' Sanctuary. It is nice that Wheel of Sun and Moon gives devotion, but I think its a tad too expensive for a deck that wants to be jamming creatures? For that reason I have a lower-costed, more reactive graveyard-hate package.
Tell me where you think I'm wrong and how I should change my list! The optimal list is probably some combination of ours :)