|Commander / EDH||Legal|
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|Ravnica: City of Guilds (RAV)||Rare|
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Shadow of Doubt
((U/B) can be paid with either (Blue) or (Black).)
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Shadow of Doubt Discussion
4 weeks ago
That sounds like a perfect Ashiok play! I've been considering putting him in my Tasigur deck because Shadow of Doubt has been great in a lot of situations, but that's partly because it's an instant and I don't run enough creatures to block for Ashiok if people swing in. I haven't finished the decklist on here yet but I just put up a video on it if you want to check it out: it's similar to yours but it looks like you go more in on the reanimation: I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0uCqC2a6n4
1 month ago
Vman nice to meet you sir, it would seem were brothers in arms. I'm not exactly new to 8 rack anymore, I've been playing this list for a year or 2 now (I should probably update my deck description here since I made it when I first posted this deck back then). I occasionally get grunts and groans for playing it, but in my experience its less because the deck is a 'bad experience deck' (though I certainly see why it is and should be) and more because people don't see it as a 'real deck' and want to play against something stronger to practice for their gps. I sincerely enjoy watching those people writhe on the rack.
Alot of the changes you're suggesting I make are actually things I've gone away from over time due to my own experiences. For example, I used to run 4x Raven's Crime , and I agree it's one of the most powerful discard spells in the deck (I personally think it's second to Smallpox ). I went down to a 3 of not because I doubt it's power, but because each copy I draw after the first is effectively a land with fewer options. 3 allows me to consistently get to the first one, and less consistently just have my hand flooded with them.
Once upon a time I played Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek both as 4 ofs, and found that they weren't worth it. Turn 1-2 they're great options, but after I throw off my opponents early game I don't much care what they discard as long as they do, in fact, discard. Mid-late game after I have my opponent top decking helplessly, I found that when they drew a land they'd hold it, knowing that lands are the hardest things for me to make them discard, so when I draw a Thoughtseize and cast in an attempt to keep them on the rack I'm literally almost bolting myself for no purpose. I decided 6 of these was the number that allowed me consistently have one or 2 of them in my opening hand but not rely on them so much later. So far it's working out for me.
Infernal Tutor has only ever over performed for me. I frequently run with no cards in hand, so it's effectively a demonic tutor. And if a card is powerful enough to get restricted in vintage, I damn sure want it in modern. If I don't have hellbent, i hold it until I do. The only time it doesn't work out for me is if I have the misfortune of drawing the second while I'm still holding the first (which is why I only run 2 of it) in which case I'll often use one to tutor for a lili or a removal spell. Less good because I'm limited in what I tutor for. But still good. There's been exactly one instance where I had to fail to find a third copy of Infernal Tutor to keep my hand size down for bridge, but even that was fine because more often than not bridge is what I tutor for with hellbent.
Delirium Skeins I agree is generally more of a sideboard card, and more often than not it's one of the first things I board out. I originally had all 3 copies in my sideboard... I think I swapped it with the 2 Dismember s if memory serves. I find myself using dismember entirely too rarely, and when I get the rest of the cards I want for my sb it's on the chopping block. It's possible that maybe delirium skeins will be moved back to the SB someday, for now it's sorta main deck worthy... ish
The land issue you mention is sorta the one I've been running into. I'm guessing you found my deck from my post in the forums, in which case you probably saw that my lands are on the working list. I intend to cut the Mutavault s as soon as I find a better working alternative for an alt win con. I'm toying with the idea of Liliana's Caress as a 2 of. Something that allows me to still use it if I have to hide behind bridge. Plan for now is to have my 4 colorless lands be ghost quarters to help keep tron off their game and make sure revolt is easy to come by for Fatal Push . Plus I know from experience how much fun it is to ghost quarter 3 of their lands and use Shadow of Doubt to deny them their search, have to assume it's more fun with 4.
The actual number of my lands I may consider working on, there have been a couple games where I've been forced to smallpox aggressively due to them being the primary discard spell I drew in my opening hand and it took me a while to recover. I'll have to look for some cuts to make room for more lands
...and you thought YOUR post was a wall of text XD
2 months ago
2 months ago
That's the best kind of brainstorming, for sure!
I'm not sure about Boomerang either ... it's very good with Shocklands, but I'm not sure the tempo hit on a normal land is big enough to justify it. Thanks tons for the other bounce options, but if I find it's too weak, I'll likely move to actual counters (e.g., a 2-2 split of Negate and Mana Leak ).
I'd looked at Cloudthresher , but I don't think the effect is worth the mana cost, especially since I expect to periodically have Nimble Obstructionist and maybe Vendilion Clique (currently in the maybeboard) in the air.
Thanks so much for all the inputs!
I'm not sure about adding Black (not that it's a bad idea, just that I don't currently have any of the manabase to support it, so it'd be a big outlay for essentially just an experiment). But Shadow of Doubt could be great for sure. Dream Eater is extremely interesting ... I'll give it a hard look.
2 months ago
If you add black you could pull some Assassin's Trophy + Shadow of Doubt shenanigans, could be fun! I also want to suggest Dream Eater instead of the cockatrice, it makes up for the 1 mana by setting up your next turns. Neat deck!
3 months ago
Oh man I've wanted a Bitter Ordeal for a while but never thought of that line, just thought of doing a big one post wrath. That's awesome! I thought about copy artifact but didn't think it was really complimentary to the deck at first. I suppose you could copy an opponent's aetherflux or mirari which would be cool. I wanna try to include more "cantrip control" cards like Dismiss and Shadow of Doubt too as a big problem i've found is counters not replacing themselves.
3 months ago
Technically it's a mixed variant, I can potentially win within T3-4 if I so choose to but it's more risky that way as I won't have built up enough resources to protect by winning line. To be specific it's a mid-range Ad Nauseam built where if it ever resolves during any mid-game the probability of winning is about 90%.
The key point is having Kess on the battlefield and use her as a recurable resource, I didn't go storm route because if I did I would actually change up the deck list and be going towards a Bonus Round route and use different types of rituals ex. Rite of Flame / Pyretic Ritual / Desperate Ritual .
Paradoxical Outcome is great in any storm deck, just doesn't fit the bill for me as I am running an Ad Naus curve, especially since I am running Dark Petition in the deck since I don't own another Imperial Seal yet. Life management is huge for me as I am pretty known as the threatening player so aggro always come at me first plus a majority of our board wipes in these colors rely on life ( Fire Covenant / Toxic Deluge ). That being said I do contemplate time from time in adding in Pyroclasm or even Volcanic Fallout .
Also yes, Shadow of Doubt has been one of my tech cards that is super lit, literally tells someone NO. Although you have to be careful as you can't tutor as well until end of turn.
3 months ago
kudos on Shadow of Doubt for sure though. Thats going in my build. I gotta post that list at some point. Thanx for contributing to the community.
Shadow of Doubt occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.01%
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.0%