Creature — Hydra
Protean Hydra enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it.
If damage would be dealt to Protean Hydra, prevent that damage and remove that many +1/+1 counters from it.
Whenever a +1/+1 counter is removed from Protean Hydra, put two +1/+1 counters on it at the beginning of the next end step.
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Protean Hydra Discussion
2 weeks ago
I playtested a version very similar to yours last night and found when my opponent managed to answer Animar, the Hydras were dead in my hand. I feel the best CMC for a creature in an Animar deck has a devotion of 1, with exceptions for Thassa's devotion and crazy powerful dudes like Primordial Hydra and Apocalypse Hydra.
I'd cut: Genesis Hydra for sure. It can't cast another Hydra, it has high devotion, I just don't like this card here.Lifeblood Hydra The devotion to green is way too high in a tri-color deck IMO. And, there's a lot of exile removal that would steal the payoff.Hooded Hydra high devotion, the payoff doesn't do much to team up with Animar.
Optional: Vastwood Hydra high devotion, low payoff. It's okay, but I cut it from mine because of the devotion.These two are okay, but they aren't as powerful as the others you have: Protean Hydra Feral Hydra
As for the board, It depends who you find yourself playing against. My gut says the counters would be more useful than Street Spasm, Anger of the Gods, or Miren, the Moaning Well. With Animar, I have trouble picturing you turning this into a control deck post board.
Usually when I've used him, any card that isn't a creature starts to feel like a waste of space. He's a quick combo with a fast clock. Even Solidarity of Heroes feels a bit like a 'win more' card. It only really pays off when you've already got a bunch of dudes with a lot of counters on them. At that point, you're probably already going to win.
3 weeks ago
GoldenDemon, thanks a ton for your great comments and ideas! I haven't done all that much testing with this deck but you've definitely brought up a few changes I'd love to make.
Though the storage lands work incredibly well with Seedborn Muse and Prophet of Kruphix, when I don't have either of those cards out the storage lands are just too slow for me. I'm thinking of replacing them with Hickory Woodlot and Saprazzan Skerry. I like that these depletion lands come into play with counters on them, ready to be doubled by Vorel.
I'm not running Darksteel Reactor mainly because it's an unfair win-con. It is a great choice for this deck though so I'll probably be trying it out sometime in the future. And I kinda like that art for some reason lol.
You're right about Predator Ooze and Scute Mob, they do seem underwhelming at times. I like the Ooze because of its durability, but I think I like the idea of running the +1/+1-counter lords that you mentioned. I will definitely be testing those guys out.
As for infinite turn combos, I'd rather not run too many for unfairness reasons similar to Darksteel Reactor. BUT, as with the reactor, I''l definitely be trying those out, probably the the Magistrate's Scepter or the Sage of Hours. If they work in the deck and are a ton of fun, I'll probably keep them in!
For the death-trigger sub-theme you mentioned, I'm thinking about maybe running a Greater Good as a sac outlet and additional draw spell. Thought on that?
As for the Woodfall Primus vs. Woodripper and Wickerbough Elder, the Primus is definitely a mana intensive investment, but he does get rid of pesky planeswalkers and lands, which may be worth it over the other two. And once you get him rolling, there are plenty of ways to keep him around, thanks to all of the Graft in the deck, Master Biomancer, Experiment Kraj, Zameck Guildmage and other cards like that. And if Greater Good does end up working, sacing the Primus to it would be a great synergy.
I know my deck is nowhere near perfect yet, but your suggestions have definitely taken it in the right direction!! Thanks a ton and let me know what you think of my ideas.
1 month ago
You're already running most of the usual suite of must-include cards with Vorel, so I don't have much input to offer - deck looks pretty solid, +1. It had somehow never occurred to me to use Glen Elendra Archmage - I'm probably going to put her in my own Vorel deck. The syngergy between Seedborn Muse/Prophet of Kruphix and the storage lands is also hilarious and easy to miss.
My first question is "why aren't you running Darksteel Reactor," but if you don't like non-interactive win conditions or think the art is ugly, those are reasonable complaints.
Predator Ooze and Scute Mob, while able to get very big, basically just seem like dumb beaters, especially since neither of them have evasion. By the same token, while Primordial Hydra can get very big and gain trample, it's just one creature. I run some of the +1/+1-counter-lords in blue and green - Tuskguard Captain, Sapphire Drake, etc. - to turn all of my creatures into potential threats. Admittedly, that leaves me open to mid-combat removal-induced blowouts, so ymmv - although you do have Progenitor Mimic for some redundancy in that regard.
You've already got an infinite-turn combo with Magosi and Rings of Brighthearth, which is cool. Have you considered Lighthouse Chronologist and Sage of Hours? Magistrate's Scepter also works, although I prefer to not use old cards with ugly art wherever possible. :P
You've got kind of a death-triggers mini-theme with Hooded Hydra, Chasm Skulker, and Woodfall Primus, but aside from Miren I don't see any ways to enable it other than hoping somebody kills them. Maybe run a free/cheap sac outlet or two, and throw in Death's Presence? IDK if you want to devote the card slots to something like that.
The Primus is a pretty mana-intensive way to destroy problem permanents, and takes some work to recur. I use Woodripper and Wickerbough Elder for artifact/enchantment removal, which is a little easier to get up and running.
Have you found Sol Ring and the Signet particularly useful? I use Astral Cornucopia as well as Everflowing Chalice for artifact-based mana production - it's slower to get started, but it has the advantage of producing some really immense quantities of colored mana if you can hit it with Vorel once or twice.
Fun ways to go wide with Vorel, which may or may not actually be good: Pentavus and Ooze Flux. In combination with Doubling Season/Primal Vigor, Master Biomancer, or Ivy Lane Denizen, you can make some pretty sizeable armies of tokens - and if they evolve Renegade Krasis, that's just more fuel for the fire.
I run Etched Oracle and Novijen Sages as well as Sage of Fables for my card-draw needs. A fun combo with the various ways Vorel decks have to move counters around is Protean Hydra - removing counters from it with Ooze Flux, Sage of Fables, or Novijen Sages is an easy way to make it grow larger. And since those activated abilities are all instant-speed, you can do it multiple times during each opponent's turn to grow the Hydra at each end step and have it be enormous by the time it comes back to you.
I run Magewright's Stone in my Vorel list, since I have a few more creatures with tap-abilities than you do, but ymmv - I'm not sure it's worth a card slot yet.
Regardless, though, I think your deck is pretty solid! Kudos!
1 month ago
Fair pont, Btw since you bring up the Bioshift, have you noticed the effect it has when used on a Protean Hydra? I kinda broke that with my simic deck, bouncing counters around the field with various triggers. Try it out, you might like it.
1 month ago
1 month ago
I like the idea of using Stuffy Doll, Hornet Nest and similar things to benefit from your own creatures taking damage. You could even commit harder and run more stuff with the same ability. One I mentioned but didn't recommend earlier is Sprouting Phytohydra. There's also Druid's Call which is a worse Nest, Fungusaur is an evolvable mutant, Kami of the Honored Dead is a really strange lifegain option, Broodhatch Nantuko is another worse Nest, Outrider en-Kor is a versatile redirector, Protean Hydra is a unique bomb, Saber Ants blah blah blah, Wall of Hope is a cheaper lifegain option, Wall of Essence is a strictly worse version. Most of these are bizarre and aren't even in modern, but it's just something to think about. To supplement that strategy you definitely want fight cards like the Tracker or Hunt the Weak. You'd also want ways to give mass indestructability or just mass toughness increases. You already are considering Stalwart Shield-Bearers which I think could easily replace Perimeter Captain. There's also Builder's Blessing and Castle, Dictate of Heliod, Hold the Gates, and Rite of Passage which kills two birds with one stone.
2 months ago
I have a Vorel deck too ( They See me Doubling, They Hating ) and I think you should go deeper into the +1/+1 counters.Since you have a lot of mana, you should consider playing some hydras, like Lifeblood Hydra, Protean Hydra, Vastwood Hydra, Kalonian Hydra and Hydra Broodmaster.Other cool things: Master Biomancer, Sage of Hours, Champion of Lambholt, Scute Mob, Renegade Krasis, Eternity Vessel, Simic Manipulator, Bow of Nylea, Solidarity of Heroes and Strength of the Tajuru
2 months ago
This is how I would suggest gearing the deck: (makes it mono green though)
2x Bow of Nylea
1x Genesis Hydra1x Heroes' Bane2x Hooded Hydra
1x Hydra Broodmaster3x Karametra's Acolyte 3x Mistcutter Hydra2x Primordial Hydra
1x Protean Hydra4x Solidarity of Heroes 3x Sylvan Caryatid3x Tuskguard Captain
|Power / Toughness||0/0|
|Avg. draft pick||1.04|
|Avg. cube pick||3.98|
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|2011 Core Set||Rare|
|2010 Core Set||Mythic Rare|
- Leyline of Vitality + Protean Hydra
- Behemoth Sledge + Protean Hydra
- Protean Hydra + Solidarity of Heroes
- Ghave, Guru of Spores + Protean Hydra
- Kalonian Hydra + Primordial Hydra + Protean Hydra
- Corpsejack Menace + Necropolis Regent + Protean Hydra
- Gaea's Anthem + Protean Hydra
- Ooze Flux + Protean Hydra
- Bioshift + Corpsejack Menace + Protean Hydra