Can Lightning bolt kill Liliana of the Veil on cast?
Asked by V0ldy 9 years ago
Was playing a match on Cockatrice with my red aggro deck and the other guy plays Liliana of the Veil.
He wanted to put a +1 on her but in response I cast a Lightning Bolt. Thought I killed her, but he said that the +1 prevented the kill.
Now, shouldn't the planeswalker ability work like sorcery and so go on the stack like any other normal spell? Because in that case I should have killed her!
Ozzywozywoz says... #2
you say the cost dosnt go on the stack... and maybe im wrong here. but I recently played manaless dredge, it was my main and I flashbacked Cabal Therapy sacing a creature.. but my opponent responded by sacing a creature he had, thus exiling my Bridge from Below s.. I called the judge coz I was sure you could respond to the cost?? he said my opponent can respond to the Bridge from Below triggers... mhe, wasn't happy with that, telling him how to play...
November 27, 2014 4:18 a.m.
Ozzywozywoz I think what your opponent did is only to try to make you exile your Bridge from Below. since you sacrificed a creature as a cost to cast Cabal Therapy's flashback. The sacrifice of yours, if it wasn't a token, would have triggered Bridge from Below's first ability, letting you put a 2/2 black zombie token onto the battlefield. Now this triggered ability goes on the stack, then your opponent could somehow sacrifice a creature as well, and this would trigger Bridge from Below's second ability, which makes you exile it. Now the situation would be, you would need to exile the Bridge, but you'd still put the zombie token into play, since the ability was already on the stack.
November 27, 2014 7:04 a.m.
Ozzywozywoz says... #4
I was told that my trigger on the stack, allowing me to get a 2/2 token, wouldn't resolve as the bridges would no longer be in my graveyard once the opponents trigger resolves (exiling bridge from his sacked creature)??
As the triggered ability says, 'if Bridges in your graveyard.. put 2/2...)
...confused ...?!
but if your right, the judge was wrong.. I didn't get the tokens.. and lost the game, but I will remember this for next time! thanks!
November 27, 2014 7:54 a.m.
Ozzywozywoz says... #5
Sadly I just looked this up, and the judge was correct, which I kinda knew.
Bridges trigger has a 'IF in graveyard..'.. so yes, when my trigger resolves by looking to see IF bridges in there, it will not be in the graveyard so doesn't resolve, and I will not get token... booooo
anyway, sorry for taking up some1 elses post.Cheers
November 27, 2014 8:02 a.m.
Oh right, I messed this up a bit. Triggered abilities on the stack check their conditions once they go on the stack, and also when they resolve. As the rules say:
"A triggered ability may read When/Whenever/At [trigger event], if [condition], [effect]. When the trigger event occurs, the ability checks whether the stated condition is true. The ability triggers only if it is; otherwise it does nothing. If the ability triggers, it checks the stated condition again as it resolves. If the condition isnt true at that time, the ability is removed from the stack and does nothing"
So the judge was right, because the first ability of Bridge triggers when you sacrifice a creature (as long as Bridge is in your graveyard), but then the second triggers when your opponent sacrifices a creature. This means, when the first ability would resolve, the game "checks" if Brigde is still in your graveyard, which is wrong, since you had to exile it.
Good luck for the next time!
November 27, 2014 8:40 a.m.
Specifically, this is not true of "Triggered Abilities" it is true of triggered abilities with an intervening IF clause (Like Bridge from Below)
Most triggered abilities will resolve even if their source has left the battlefield before the ability resolves. It's only those "When, If" constructions that check on trigger and on resolution.
filledelanuit says... Accepted answer #1
Your opponent was correct.
After a Lily resolved your opponent would have gotten priority first. He then could have activated her +1 ability. Changing the number of loyalty counters on a planeswalker is the cost of the ability. The cost always come before the colon. cost : effect. Costs cannot be responded to and don't use the stack. So by the time you cast Bolt Lily would already have 4 counters.
November 26, 2014 7:46 p.m.