Innistrad: Crimson Vow

Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum

Posted on Oct. 25, 2021, 3:14 p.m. by Coward_Token

Maro teaser link

Maro teaser speculation/commenting Show

sergiodelrio says... #2

Jepp, the new artifact is prolly gonna be 'egg tokens' that you hatch for

The remove I think will be emblem destruction

Faction mechanic: Prowess

October 25, 2021 3:31 p.m.
  • I imagine Suspect counters might be something you can put on opponent's creatures to give them "When this creature dies, Investigate."
  • Reprinted popular + powerful creature could be Gitrog? Idk
  • New artifact token could be something like Grave or Tomb which you crack to make Spirit tokens (, : create a 1/1 W Flying Spirit, natch)
  • Maybe new Sea Monster lord? Or, dare I hope, a Commander? They seem jazzed about making them for under-represented tribes lately, so I'm hopeful
  • Returning faction mechanic could be Afterlife? Feels thematically appropriate
  • Bloodthirst or Haunt would make a lot of sense as well
  • Two mentions of the number 13, so likely a third and/or fourth entry in the Triskaideka-cycle?
  • Spirit Warlock Legend's likely to be Orzhov
  • Who's getting turned into a Vampire?
October 25, 2021 4:17 p.m.

marco-piatti says... #4

thalia is my pick to become a vampire. We have already see what "new" vampires would have as key mechanic, some sort of bloodthrist that rewards the player when an opponent lost life that turn. I was hoping for a liliana of the veil reprint, i know is not gonna happen (would make no sense lore wise also). I'm curious about the fusion, we have already seen gisela + bruna. I honestly don't know who they could mix up.

October 25, 2021 5:19 p.m.

legendofa says... #5

Something something, cool, Spirits and yeah, thirteen, that looks interesting, huh, Humans, SCORPION don't even care that it's a Zombie, it better be good

Do I have a problem? I might have a problem.

October 25, 2021 6:45 p.m.

legendofa says... #6

On another note, Thalia wasn't in Midnight Hunt. Vampire Thalia? Thalia + Avacyn?

Mirror of an existing mechanic has got to be something like Undying as a mirror of Persist. Anti-Bloodthirst "If no opponent lost life this turn, X"? Doesn't seem likely in a Vampire-focused block. Any other guesses?

October 25, 2021 7:20 p.m.

enpc says... #7

"A new mechanic that removes something never removed before"

I'm really hoping this is going to be an emblem killer. That would be awesome.

October 25, 2021 11:05 p.m.

legendofa says... #8

How would you flavor an emblem killer? It's just kind of a permanent effect, not even as tangible or visible as an enchantment. For that matter, do you "destroy" an emblem? Can you target an emblem? It is a new mechanic...

October 25, 2021 11:24 p.m.

enpc says... #9

legendofa: I mean, we have a bunch of effects that already interact with a target card in exile. And emblems only exist in the command zone, so it makes it straight forward for the wording. Since emblems are just tokens which can exist in the commander zone, you would just exile it and then standard token exile effect rules come into play, making the emblem cease to exist. I would think at least.

October 26, 2021 2:50 a.m.

The double legend will propably be Edgar and Olivia. The vampire Thalia would be cool. Odric maybe?

The reprint will propably be Gitrog.

legendofa: A scorpion tribal card would be magnificent. But did you notice the legendary Slug? I think I might finally find a Golgari commander I like :)

October 26, 2021 4:30 a.m.

Regarding the seamonster support: Runo Stromkirk FTW!!!!!

October 26, 2021 4:31 a.m.

“Zombies you control have flying.”

Regardless of how useful the actual card turns out to be, that particular sentence just sounds terrifying..

October 26, 2021 12:58 p.m.

Coward_Token says... #13

legendofa: It's a shame that you're unlikely to get a Skeleton arthropod in the future though

October 26, 2021 3:11 p.m.

legendofa says... #14

Coward_Token Would a giant spider made out of bones count?

October 26, 2021 4:17 p.m.

My theory is that maybe Thalia and Odric are the two characters on one card, although Hal and Alena are also likely. The "Zombies you control have flying" bit might be Geralf, as they said he would make an appearance. Also, this would be a great place to print the in-universe version of Rick, Steadfast Leader as Thalia, Odric, or both.

October 26, 2021 8:53 p.m.

DemonDragonJ says... #16

A new vampire noble has me hoping that there shall finally be a card of Runo Stormkirk, the patron of house Stormkirk, since the heads of the other three vampire houses have been depicted in cards, but not him.

enpc, I really hope that there never is a way to remove emblems, because the entire point of emblems is that they represent a permanent change to the game; the original wording on Elspeth, Knight-Errant's ability was "for the rest of the game, artifacts, creatures, enchantments, and lands that you control are indestructible," so emblems were created as a way to simplify that wording.

October 26, 2021 9:19 p.m.

TypicalTimmy says... #17

enpc, I agree. As much as I love Planeswalkers, I have also been asking / requesting an emblem removal system for a few years now. Always get negativity when I say it, but that's part of the game.

Look at how Chandra, Awakened Inferno is worded: "Each opponent gets an emblem (...)", or Ob Nixilis Reignited with "Target opponent gets an emblem with (...)".

It would not be too difficult to have a card that says "Target player loses an emblem of your choice."

This way, you don't target the emblem - you target the player. And if they have multiple emblems, you choose which one is removed.

October 27, 2021 12:23 a.m.

TypicalTimmy says... #18

Metroid_Hybrid, Hordewing Skaab.

Enjoy your nightmare fuel.

October 27, 2021 12:26 a.m.

marco-piatti says... #19

About Emblem removal, if it's not this time they need to add this mechanic to the game. Maro himself said that mtg is a game in which everything has an appropriate answer, maybe you don't come across just in that moment but that exists within the game (as it should be). So having uninteractable items like emblems is pretty much "unfair" according the same core phylosophy of what a balanced game should be.

October 27, 2021 4:12 a.m.

9-lives says... #20

I really hope for more white vampires with the whole vampire theme. The Immortal Sun is a huge plot hole in the card representation. Like, why would they be called 'the Legion of Dusk' when they hold such a powerful artifact that makes blood drinking unnecessary?

October 27, 2021 7:38 p.m.

DemonDragonJ says... #21

This may not be the best thread in which to ask this question, but why is it that the reward from Visions of Ruin increases with the number of players in the game, while recent mass life drain effects grant only a fixed amount of life, regardless of how much total life is lost?

I very much like effects that scale up when more players are in a game, but why is WotC being inconsistent, there?

October 27, 2021 8:47 p.m.

Coward_Token says... #22

DemonDragonJ: make a Tumblr account and ask Maro directly

October 28, 2021 12:15 p.m.

Coward_Token says... #23

So I made a pretty big spoiler commenting post, but it got eaten by, fittingly, data vampires. Sigh.

I'll just say that Wedding Ring doesn't do much vs Rhystic Study, and that its third ability feels weird for punishing white being good at life gain.

October 28, 2021 4:57 p.m.

DemonDragonJ says... #24

So many awesome cards have been revealed! I do not have time to comment on every one, but I shall mention those that most particularly interest me.

I am very glad that WotC is completing the dual land cycle that they began in Midnight Hunt, and not making the players wait for an arbitrarily-long duration to complete it; hopefully, they shall finish the various other dual land cycles that currently are only partially complete, sooner, rather than later. I also am pleased to see additional basic lands with dark and creepy artwork, as it shall now be easier to have a deck filled with such cards.

Rot-tide gargantua is the first zombie kraken in this game, as far as I am aware, so that is very awesome, although I do wonder why it took WotC this long to print such a creature. I also am very happy to see exploit return, and I doubt that very many people imagined that that would be the "faction mechanic" to which Mark Rosewater was referring in his teaser.

I am glad that Anje has returned, but why is there no card of Runo, yet? He is the only family patron who has not yet been printed!

By invitation only is nice, but forced sacrifice has almost always been black, not white, so that should have been the case for that card, as well.

Fell stinger is really good for an uncommon, so I expect it to be very impactful in sealed games at the prerelease.

I am very glad that Sigarda survived her battle with Sorin, but the story is not yet over, so I sincerely hope that she survives the next battle.

Did anyone notice that the vampire in alternate artwork of gluttonous guest is wearing a headpiece that strongly resembles Tamiyo's hairstyle?

With Millicent, restless revenant being printed, I believe that spirits are now a viable tribe for an EDH deck, and I really hope that her deck includes reprints of both Drogskol Captain and Sky Spirit, and possibly Drogskol Reaver, as well.

Strefan will be great for vampire tribal decks, as will be nearly every vampire in this set.

Wedding ring will definitely be a very interesting political card, so I am eager to see it in action.

Olivia herself is very awesome, and I am now eager to see Edgar, as well.

The cleave mechanic is very interesting, so I shall be very interested to see what other cards use it.

October 28, 2021 8:59 p.m.

golgarigirl says... #25

The special border Sorin is done by one of the OG Castlevania artists, Ayami Kojima!

October 28, 2021 9:16 p.m.

legendofa says... #26

On the subject of art, Sam Guay, the artist for Demonic Bargain and Change of Fortune, apparently studied under Rebecca Guay. The two aren't related.

October 28, 2021 9:21 p.m.

SpammyV says... #27

Cleave is... aesthetically displeasing to me. I foresee judge calls because someone didn't parse all the bracketed text being removed. Also I kind of dislike the brackets. I know MaRo has commented about mechanics that feel like they could've just been Kicker, but to me this seems like Kicker but more confusingly worded than, "If the Kicker cost was paid, do X instead."

October 28, 2021 9:26 p.m.

legendofa says... #28

Graveyard Dig directly influenced cleave.

A new mechanic that removes something never removed before

I believe emblems are safe.

October 28, 2021 9:38 p.m.

marco-piatti says... #29

Olivia looks fun, would make a fine commander. The best thing (or probably i should say most fun) IMO is that if you reanimate a legendary vampire is basically free from any condition.

Strefan is what i would probably try to build around a deck because it's more versatile in a vampire tribal environment. Making him care about blood tokens so he's not another "Just add all the best vampire cards per-se" commander is an intelligent idea. At least for me, i usually don't like commanders that are basically a shell for good stuff only.

I really LOVE the fact that blood tokens, and they've made it pretty clear straight away with these few cards, do NOT exist only for the sake of being sack to their own effect but can be used by other vampire cards . I actually thing that if they made them just for the sake of having them and use them as they "would normally" be used it would be a big fail in terms of flavor. About their own effect, i probably don't need to say that in the right setting they are probably busted. (card advantage, fill graveyard, discard effects + trigger madness, i'm sure missing other things...).

Also, i love the artwork and the flavour of the whole set (for what we have seen, of course). I think they just nailed it.

October 29, 2021 6:48 a.m.

Coward_Token says... #30

Runo Stromkirk: Unfortunately can't have Gyruda, Doom of Depths as his companion, but copying it twice is still pretty good. Live the dream and get tripple Spawning Krakens! Is he even going to the wedding?

October 29, 2021 2:53 p.m.

DemonDragonJ says... #31

Finally, there is a card of Runo Stormkirk! Now, all of the patrons (or matrons) of the vampire houses have been depicted in cards in this game. I noticed that Edgar himself has not yet been revealed, so I expect that his card shall be very impressive.

Hallowed haunting would have been excellent in Theros: Beyond Death, since that set had a strong focus on enchantments, but Innistrad does not, although it does focus on spirits. Kamigawa had a focus on spirits, and the new Neon Dynasty set is not far away, so this card is likely hinting at that set, but Kamigawa is not known for a focus on enchantments, either, so I wonder why HH has a focus on enchantments?

October 29, 2021 3:31 p.m.

TypicalTimmy says... #32

So is it Sorin who is marrying Olivia?

October 29, 2021 4:58 p.m.

Coward_Token says... #33

TypicalTimmy: no, it's Edgar

October 29, 2021 5:21 p.m.

Coward_Token says... #34

October 29, 2021 5:23 p.m.

Coward_Token says... #35

Geralf: As implied by the flavor text, a cheecky reference to Ghoulcaller Gisa, though note that it checks for toughness, not power.

Dormant Grove/Gnarled Grovestrider: Made for Thantis, the Warweaver, as Thantis appreciates having her team still being able to block after being forced to attack. Flips on the turn they meet too.

Investigator's Journal: ye newe cheap and steady card draw artifact. Obviously, mainly reliable in go-wide decks. Not bad, but I think it's overal inferior to the similar Idol of Oblivion, Tome of Legends, Eye of Vecna, and Bonder's Ornament. Even with that said, there'll be deck configurations where this is more reliable than the mentioned options.

Biolume Egg: that's sacrifice, not just when dies, which is a neat puzzle. The Geralf combo is obvious enough, as is the exploit one.

October 30, 2021 11:27 a.m.

TypicalTimmy says... #36

Want to give a shout-out to Cemetery Protector. She has a pretty nifty ability to generate 1/1 tokens whenever you play a land or cast a spell that shares a type from a card you exiled from any player's graveyard on ETB.

If you sling a permanent such as Spear of Heliod into your graveyard, anytime you cast a Legendary (Your Commander), an Artifact or an Enchantment, you get a token. Or whenever you play a land.

The same applies to Legendary Artifact Creatures and Legendary Enchantment Creatures.

If you like decks that have typelines like these, or build for something like this, you can go very wide, very fast. She's really solid in a Prison deck that wants to use enchantments and artifacts to hammer down your opponents.

Could be a nice budget card for those interested in that style of play.

Although, in a mono-white prison deck, Spear of Heliod would make your tokens 2/2s, but there are so many enchantments and artifacts that do this, it isn't really that big of a deal.

October 31, 2021 1:27 a.m. Edited.

legendofa says... #37

I'm not seeing any lingering Eldrazi influence. Is Emrakul still around?

October 31, 2021 2:29 a.m.

TypicalTimmy says... #38

legendofa, time has passed and likely all of the Eldrazi horrors are killed off. If not, the set isn't focusing on them anyway.

Emrakul is still trapped in The Silver Moon.

October 31, 2021 2:55 a.m.

Coward_Token says... #39

TypicalTimmy: artifact lands cast a pretty wide net too. The design is indeed neat, though it's quite a lot more expensive than Young Pyromancer/Peoplemancer (but not the Birdmancer)

October 31, 2021 6:20 a.m.

Coward_Token says... #40

Toxrill: kind of a black Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, with a similarly high mana cost that puts me off a bit. Note that it's each end step; in EDH that's -4/-4 per roation which is quite prohibative, though weenies can at least get a hit in with haste.

October 31, 2021 12:17 p.m.

Coward_Token says... #41

Tombstone Stairwell + Toxrill is pretty funny since you're allowed to make the slime ability resolve before the token-killing one

October 31, 2021 12:19 p.m.

Toxrill with Night of Souls' Betrayal and Kaervek, the Spiteful is pretty dope. Add in Fleshbag Marauder and friends, Revel in Riches, maybe even Inexorable Tide and other proliferate effects. You could even include Overseer of the Damned, Quest for the Gravelord and more zombie stuff. And just imagine Skullclamp and Grave Pact/Butcher of Malakir with the activated ability. As I said, I like where this is going.

Oh, btw: I build a hypothetical 60-card casual Frog tribal list around Grolnok. In case anyone is interested, here you go: Ancestral Ribbit (UG Frog Tribal)

October 31, 2021 1:12 p.m.

TypicalTimmy says... #43

legendofa, Ulvenwald Oddity (Mono-green Beast) looks like it may be a reference toward the events of Shadows over Innistrad / Eldritch Moon.

October 31, 2021 1:41 p.m. Edited.

TypicalTimmy says... #44

I sat out Midnight Hunt because I saw practically nothing that invigorated me, but Crimson Vow looks pretty dope so far.

Maybe I just think D/Nbound is too clunky, which it is. I honestly hate how pups transform being reliant on spells being cast. This goes true for older iterations, as well.

October 31, 2021 1:54 p.m.

DemonDragonJ says... #45

Sigarda's imprisonment has me severely worried that Sigarda shall die in this story; why does WotC seem to kill off every major angelic character? Do they dislike angels?

Does the hand size modifier from inspired idea override any effects that occur later? If a player played a Reliquary Tower after casting that spell, would they still have a reduced hand size?

After seeing lantern flare, I must ask; why have there been so many cards recently that can deal damage to creatures and planeswalkers, but not players? Does WotC wish for players to win games with combat damage from creatures?

November 1, 2021 2 p.m.

Coward_Token says... #46

Necroduality: The Scarab God is a bit sad that its Eternalized copies won't get xerox'd too.

Cemetery Prowler: Okay then. Kind of a slap in the face of Cemetery Protector that its green counterpart is cheaper, has more chances to exile cards, and gets bonuses for greater type overlap. Same stats and vigilance too! At least it doesn't have flash, I guess.

Lantern Flare: pretty neat use of cleave

Howlpack's Piper: feels weird that the flipside is the overall worse one, but at least it punishes people for turning things back to day

Cultivator Colossus: at mana value 7 this feels like win more, but at least it's easier to cheat it in than e.g. Reshape the Earth

DemonDragonJ: AFAIK no, as long as the Tower remains

November 1, 2021 3:29 p.m.

SpammyV says... #47

They split up damage to creatures/planeswalkers and damage to players so they can print more damage dealing cards with different effects at different rates. It seems they're fine with having Lightning Bolt not be in Standard and Pioneer. They just printed Play with Fire, a strictly better Shock, and it seems they're fine with Shock/Lightning Strike being the best burn spell rates for those formats.

November 1, 2021 7:15 p.m.

The Dracula promos are awesome and well done in my opinion.

The new Geralf, Visionary Stitcher is pretty cool as well. I'll probably swap him in for Eternal Skylord in my Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver zombie token tribal deck.

I think Retrieve is sneaky strong recursion. 3 mana for two cards is a pretty high rate.

Cultivator Colossus is pretty interesting. Not sure if it is strong enough to include in my Slogurk, the Overslime lands deck, but it's definitely worth considering.

Hero's Downfall is a nice reprint, but I am sad to see that Odric got turned into a vampire.

Dominic Mayer's art on Abrade and Curse of Hospitality is absolutely gorgeous.

November 1, 2021 10:38 p.m.

TypicalTimmy says... #49

Mark spoiled that a character would return as a Vampire.

The newly reprinted Hero's Downfall has Odric, Lunarch Marshal's sword.

I'm guessing we get an Odric Vampire.

November 1, 2021 11:16 p.m.

Coward_Token says... #50

I wonder if Odric will be one of the mono-white Vamps then?

November 2, 2021 1:34 a.m.

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