Innistrad: Crimson Vow
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Oct. 25, 2021, 3:14 p.m. by Coward_Token
Maro teaser speculation/commenting Show
golgarigirl says... #2
I'm generally 'meh' on this set so far, but I'm not a tribal player, so this tends to happen to me in every tribal-focused set. At least I get to round out the land cycle! Cemetery Prowler, Dig Up, and Manaform Hellkite are my favorites from the set. Other than that, I've spent too much on Secret Lairs, so I'm thrilled for a break.
November 2, 2021 8:48 a.m.
sergiodelrio says... #3
I may sound like a broken record but the average mana value of everything is too high. They are still overcompensating Oko-gate and the likes, sigh.
November 2, 2021 9:45 a.m.
We need more 5c lands! Give 5c some love, considering that it's one of the most difficult playstyles there is!
November 2, 2021 9:51 a.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #5
sergiodelrio - I am curious, what cards do you find overcosted? From what I see Toxil and Halana/Alena are really the only "overcosted" high rarity cards based on given abilities/stats/keywords. Just about everything else is either on curve or aggressively costed. Heck, most of the uncommons spoiled far seem a pretty fair rate.
November 2, 2021 9:59 a.m.
sergiodelrio says... #6
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor I'm having a more general issue lately.
First of all, to get it out of the way, I'm not a limited player.
It's not necessarily that the cards we get aren't worth their mana, some definitely are. The issue is that I'd much prefer more cards in the lower cmc range that are a weaker version of their higher cmc counterpart, if that makes any sense. Like for example I get much more excitement out of Consider rather than a [scattered thoughts] and for my taste there is just too much of the latter these days, but it might be me.
November 2, 2021 10:13 a.m. Edited.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #7
sergiodelrio - I see. So you want more cards that do less, but cost less to cast. I can get behind that. It is nice not having to read a short novel when a card hits the battlefield.
November 2, 2021 11:01 a.m.
Coward_Token says... #8
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor: see this
Bloodvial Purveyor: Yeah this seems really dangerous. Imagine your opponent getting out Krark-Clan Ironworks after you cast this. At least there's no Blood-specific card that can eat Blood tokens rapidly. Could have been a red card?
Ancient Spruce: neat template update of buttfighting
Boarded Windows: I kinda wish it only counted combat damage, although the flavor of "burn" spells working on it is there at least.
Weaver of Blossoms: tbh I'd rather just have a functional reprint of Scorned Villager Flip
Glorious Sunrise: pretty fun with extra combat steps as you can give multiple lands the bonus mana
November 2, 2021 1:47 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #9
Alright, so on second thought...Cultivator Colossus is absolute gas in Slogurk since Slogurk puts lands into hand. Also, I am in full support of anyway to abuse Abundance. Love that card.
Coward_Token - interesting. We will have to see what white vampires come along then since everything has been black or red so far.
November 2, 2021 4:17 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #10
Screaming Swarm: Mmm, yes, octopus eye-seaguls. Some real evil there. (I think this is actually supposed to be connected to Krothuss, he's the other local Cthulu rippof after all: https://media.wizards.com/2021/vow/en_4osuX5LL22.png)
Graf Reaver: Was a bit disapointed when I realized it wasn't saying "target creature or planeswalker", but that's some sick art! Note the sword to the right with the spiked handle; it go seems to have an eye.
November 2, 2021 5:06 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #11
Wandering Mind has awesome flavor for such a mechanicall boring card
November 2, 2021 5:20 p.m.
GrimlockVIII says... #12
Mirrorhall Mimic is my favorite card of the set now.
November 2, 2021 7:39 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #13
literally Spirit Clone // flashback Spirit Followed Footsteps
Spiked Ripsaw: this is very silly (AFAIK chainsaws make poor murder weapons; gore tends to clog up the mechanism)
Markov Purifier: First white vampire. Would making the ability free have been too much?
Old Rutstein: Got some borderline plagiarism for you, stranger
November 3, 2021 1:40 a.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #14
Anyone else mildly annoyed that the zombie tokens in Crimson Vow don't have decayed? While I prefer the zombie tokens this way, I'd rather have consistency between two linked sets. I guess last set focused more on Gisa's magic (which is reanimating rotting corpses), while this set focuses more on Geralf's magic (constructing skaabs which aren't decaying), but it still just seems odd that they would abandon decayed so quickly.
November 3, 2021 8:21 a.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #15
Interestingly, Hive-Heart Shaman () says that whenever he attacks, you tutor into play a basic land that doesn't share a land type among lands you control.
So he wants to go in WUBRG and over 5 turns he tutors out one of each basic land. Sounds like complete trash...
Wastes - No lands type = no sharing with other lands you control = unlimited tutoring
November 3, 2021 2:03 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #16
Feels weird that they put Kessig Flamebreather in the same set as Lambholt Raconteur. The former seems way more cost-efficient even though it is of lower rarity, while the latter seems to both encourage you to cast lot of spells and none at all?
November 3, 2021 3:48 p.m.
GrimlockVIII says... #17
I was confused by that as well, as well as by the pseudo-prowess werewolf we got in Midnight Hunt.
Like, spellslinging aspects of the cards actively conflict with the werewolf aspects, especially since they don't really contribute anything to the creature-focused werewolf tribe itself.
Where do they even belong?
November 3, 2021 8:39 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #18
You guys see they printed Soloman Grundy? I hear he was born on a Monday... ;)
November 3, 2021 10:31 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #19
The green mana symbol on Winged Portent's cleave cost makes a lot of flying tribal commanders sad. Would have been great otherwise.
November 4, 2021 1:32 a.m.
Coward_Token says... #22
Edgar: I kinda wish this was a MDFC, as the play pattern of make tokens -> anthem seems more natural
Creepy Pupeteer: I don't see what's particularly puppeteer-y about the art
Jacob Hauken: I was really dissapointed about this until I reread it and noticed the "without paying the mana cost" rider. Exiling expensive stuff early on and then cheating them out later is neat, pretty much discard -> reanimate
November 4, 2021 1:51 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #23
Cobbled Lancer: Cursed art? I say, not cursed enough.
Cemetary Gatekeeper: Oof, is it really any player? At least it's cheaper than the others in the cycle.
Bride's Gown // Groom's Finery: Feels kinda weird that you can get the bonus by equipping the same creature with both. On the other hand...
November 4, 2021 3:30 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #24
Odric kinda feels like a joke take on his old self. No, I'm not that excited over Blood tokens so far.
And he wasn't even the mono-white vampire in the set!
November 4, 2021 4:19 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #25
So I was right about Odric. Nice.
Edgar is a sad sack of potatoes. Though to be fair, I had my expectations elevated by Edgar Markov
November 4, 2021 4:46 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #26
I'd love to build an Olivia / Edgar Partner deck, and try to go "Legendary Matters". That's be fun :) probably not any good, but fun - at least in my opinion. Probably who I really want to built the most is Henrika.
November 4, 2021 4:58 p.m.
golgarigirl says... #27
This set has a trend for me. And that trend is to make me sad.
Toxrill, the Corrosive is sweet. But that blue pip angers me. I want to play it in my Golgari or Rakdos reanimator.
Winged Portent is amazing for Inniaz, the Gale Force! But wait, is that a green pip?
I am tickled that the artist seems to have modeled the non-variant Edgar, Charmed Groom off of Michael Sheen, though!
November 4, 2021 8:39 p.m. Edited.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #28
Welcoming Vampire seems like great card draw for white.
Overall the set looks fun. It's nice that they brought soulbond back in the commander decks. Only Jakob Hauken seems moderately interesting commander wise, but there are a bunch of interesting cards for the 99 sprinkled throughout the set.
November 4, 2021 8:52 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #29
Kessig flamebreaker provides quadruple redundancy with Guttersnipe, Firebrand Archer, and Electrostatic Field, so I would be very cautious of a deck that uses all four of those cards.
Optimistic initiate will be great in any decks that use +1/+1 counters, but I cannot fit it into my Atraxa deck, regrettably. Also, compared to Steelbane Hydra, it requires removing of two counters, rather than one, but those counters can be removed from any creature, so the increased versatility is nice.
Markov purifier is nice, but the fact that its ability triggers only on its controller’s end step is a severe drawback, so I would rather use Well of Lost Dreams. Why could the creature’s ability not trigger on each end step? Surely, that would not have made it too powerful?
I really like Avabruck caretaker, but it is too difficult to transform for it to replace Privileged Position in any of my decks. I am glad that WotC finally printed a creature with that ability, but why did it need to be on a creature that transforms, thus potentially depriving a player of the ability?
Wash away will be insane in EDH, but, if Drannith Magistrate is not banned in that format, this card is not likely to be banned, either.
I am glad to finally see Edgar’s card, but it is a severe disappointment compared to his original card. He is very resilient, but I still was expecting him to be more powerful, and the fact that he is not a mythic rare is ridiculous, in my mind.
It is so sad to see Odric turned into a vampire, as he now follows numerous other characters who have turned evil, such as Crovax, Mirri, Glissa, and Ezuri.
I also am very displeased that there has been neither a reprint of Exquisite Blood nor a creature version of it; why is WotC being so stubborn with that?
November 4, 2021 8:53 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #31
November 5, 2021 1:06 a.m. Edited.
Coward_Token says... #32
Umbris: actually graveyard hate matters
"Mightmare"? hah
Welcoming Vampire is pretty good if you can get it to trigger more than once a rotation. Mono-white decks can't be chosers anyway.
Kaya making Spirits feels weird
DemonDragonJ: accodring to the wiki, Odric is trying to be good
November 5, 2021 1:38 a.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #34
Coward_Token, TypicalTimmy: Ophiomancer intensifies
Just noticed Wash Away. One mana to stop a scary commander and a reasonable cleave cost which turns it into Cancel means that it could definitely make a splash in commander.
I kind of wish they would've just reprinted Soul-Guide Lantern instead of creating Lantern of the Lost. They are so very similar, but former is still better 90% of the time and approaching $3.
Kaya is pretty interesting with her -2 Anointed Procession. Might be worth a spot in my Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools/Tymna the Weaver aristocrats deck.
I definitely see about 12 cards from this set that could make their way into various commander decks that I am currently running. That's higher than most sets.
November 5, 2021 9:49 a.m.
Friendship with Ghost Dad is ENDED. Vampire Dad is my friend now.
November 5, 2021 10:24 a.m.
marco-piatti says... #36
Honestly i'm disappointed about the lack of possibility to use blood tokens outside their own effect.
I had really big expectations about Edgar but if i had to choose between this and him being completely busted, i would probably pick this, not gonna lie.
Overall nice set, some intresting cards. But imo some other good vampire would have totally fit in the set. I mean, i think we got better werewolf than vampires overall in the "vampire set".
November 5, 2021 1:23 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #37
marco-piatti: it's like Midnight Hunt in reverse
November 5, 2021 2:04 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #38
From the early preview art, I expected Blood Servitor to actually be typed Artifact Creature - Blood Construct
November 5, 2021 3:25 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #39
I just learned that Exquisite Blood has been added to the list for this set, which is not a true and proper reprint, but it is better than nothing, I suppose.
November 5, 2021 4:41 p.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #40
Can someone please reply: What is the card that removes something that has never been removed before?
When you reply with the name, also do so with the color identity so I know where to look, please.
Thank you <3
November 6, 2021 1:04 a.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #41
Nevermind :) I forgot Gisa was in Midnight Hunt :3
November 6, 2021 1:14 a.m. Edited.
marco-piatti says... #42
Coward_Token yeah but i have the feeling that overall the vampires are a little bit underwhelming. I don't know if i feel this way because i had high expectations about this set but whatever. Olivia is worth mentioning just because of the fact that she has haste. In standard she is probably too slow all the same. Probably fun in limited however. In edh she makes a fun commander but nothing special. Edgar is decent and that's it. The one that gets +1/0 for each blood token owned by an opponent will receive an errata for sure because those are not counters and so i don"t think they added an incremental everlasting boost that doesn't use counters. He is very good nonetheless, giving others blood tokens is not a big deal imo.
About blood tokens, i don't feel like this mechanic has been developed properly. There are very few decent vampires that produces them just to begin with. I get that in standard you can run 4× of the best ones so it may not be too much of a problem but even then. They can rarely be sacked to some other creature's effect that is worth the trouble. And in standard paying one to discard and then draw is not that big deal. Sure late game you may discard land to draw but you are Always paying one mana to activate.
In commander, at least, if they don't release like 15 useful cards about producing/use blood tokens in a meaningful way, they are still bad. Probably better than in standard since you have more time to set up some graveyard/discard strategy but still, probably nothing to be super excited about. I guess that the vampire precon will probably focus on managing to create blood tokens via damage thanks to the Commander and than use them to be sacked to reanimate stuff. But i don' see them releasing a lot of good vampires that provide blood tokens per se. However, my early prediction after the first spoilers were wrong so i may be wrong again and they may provide solid support there.
just to share my onw opinion, i would have gone differently, which means: more consistent blood tokens creators (not only one time effect) + more vampires being able to use them to activate some decent ability. I've stressed this thing already a couple of times and this is the last one. But overall all this blood token mechanincs to me is pretty underdeveloped and could have been used better.
Werewolfs on the other hand are pretty decent overall, it's probably because they were a very underdeveloped tribe and they felt more safe to develop them.
Zombies got some very decent support. I like them a lot and i was really pleased with what they have done with them. As pointed out by others here though, makes zero sense that in crimson zombie tokens do not have decay. If the idea was: Midnight hunt -> produce token, crimson vow: sack them to exploit effect, i don't get why in crimson they also are regular tokens. But whatever, they did good with them.
At last, Human tribe: i like how they developed the tribe over the two sets, there is some consistency. I felt like they were not supported enough in Midnight hunt to properly build around (both in standard and edh), but with Crimson they added some good support to the theme that may make them worth playing.
So yeah in conclusion i am disappointed about the tribe i was more hyped for but i recognize that there is a lot of good themes and cards overall in these two sets.
November 6, 2021 4:52 a.m.
Coward_Token says... #43
TypicalTimmy: afaik it was the cleave mechanic (removing rules text segments], not any particular card.
I don't get the flavor for Desperate Farmer. Turning to necromancy seems like an overreaction to losing a horse.
November 6, 2021 5:03 a.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #44
I keep forgetting about Cleave. shrug
I'd make a pun, but I don't think it'd CUT IT
it's 4am don't @ me
November 6, 2021 5:12 a.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #45
marco-piatti - Blood tokens are basically this set's version of Clue token/investigate mechanic from SOI. An interesting mechanic but underdeveloped within its progenitor set. Clues got a bunch of love over there years, so blood tokens could get more support as time passes if it is popular enough. With that being said, I don't think blood tokens will be as popular as clues, so future support might not come.
As far as vampires being a bit of a let down this set, I think it's because they are already a very strong tribe. In order to move the needle, a card needs to be extraordinary or do something unique. I don't think we received a vampire card that fits either of those categories. Compare vampires to two of the other big tribes in the set. Werewolves was a very weak tribe that got "extraordinary" cards (and by extraordinary I mean playable). Zombies is a well supported tribe like vampires, but they got some unique cards/mechanics that provide new strategies for the tribe. Vampires on the other hand got a middling mechanic and a bunch of the same type of cards we expect for the tribe.
TypicalTimmy - That is an extremely vague question to try to answer....
November 6, 2021 9:57 a.m.
Coward_Token says... #46
I only just realized that Reclusive Taxidermist is a throwback to Werebear, which feels weird on this plane.
November 7, 2021 4:05 p.m.
Weak, vaguely thematic Skeleton with an unoriginal ability and no particular utility. Whee. Zoom. Watch them go.
November 7, 2021 9:28 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #48
legendofa: don't forget about the almighty Toxic Scorpion :D
November 8, 2021 12:34 a.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #49
Persistent Specimen is disappointing sadly. It's amazing how a difference of 1 mana can change a card from being very strong (Reassembling Skeleton) to forgettable. Ashnod's Altar + Pitiless Plunderer is still an option though.
I think Pointed Discussion is actually a very strong card draw spell in black. A total of 4 mana for 2.5 cards spread over time puts it at least on par Ambition's Cost, if not better than.
November 8, 2021 8:04 a.m.
GrimlockVIII says... #50
You think Persistent Specimen is at least viable in pauper in naw?
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #1
I doubt it since Vamps are / this set. He could be mardu or white aligned, but not mono-white.
Holy crap Necroduality. Pairing that with Gray Merchant of Asphodel is my new dream.
Cemetary Prowler might find a way into my Glissa list as another artifact cost reducer. I love the fact that it has low cmc and can reduce the cost of my removal spells.
The mythics this set are pretty strong so far.
November 2, 2021 8:39 a.m.