HELP ME!!!
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Dec. 31, 2020, 10:24 p.m. by MrMan969
Ugh, I'm going crazy, I've got a friend who I only mostly just play Commander with and he has a BLUE-WHITE Daxos of Meletis commander and I'm convinced he has less than 10 creatures in his deck. The rest are all just Blue counters, White lockdowns (for anything I'm actually able to resolve), Copy spells, card draw and some life gain. -Oh I forgot to mention that I play Mono-Red... Only commander I've had any luck with has of course been Krenko, Mob Boss that has worked out really well, yet Purphoros, God of the Forge was not quite fast enough to get ahead of him. But I'm not someone to just stick with just one way to win, I Love to constantly create and tinker with decks. I've tried out over a dozen different commanders with several deck variations and I'll still always lose about 2/3 of our match-ups... I'm determined to not venture outside of mono-Red, I'm in Love with it -and despite it kinda being the red-headed stepchild (Pun intended) of commander I'm 100% determined to create a dominant mono-red commander deck (besides Krenko:) ). I'm really trying to resist the temptation of resorting to land destruction for some pay-back for all the frustration and heartache he has put me through when he'll have me completely locked down while he swings at me to death with like a 3 power creature lol, It's like my finger is on the NUKE button but trying everything I can to not have to press it... Any ideas??? Thanks!
do you play mono red because you really like red or because you just really dislike all the other colors? more colors means more options. green in particular will have a lot of things that can't be countered, or has hexproof. or both like Carnage Tyrant. theres also Veil of Summer.
MagicMarc: Guttural Response still has green in its color identity, but i do think he should consider adding green at a minimum.
January 1, 2021 12:31 a.m.
Gabe_The_Controller says... #4
All the suggestions above are good. And the route I would take. The only thing is guttural response is not playable in monored since it has a gruul color identity.
I would make sure you're running chaos warp to deal with enchantments and Enchanter's Bane is probably worth it too.
January 1, 2021 12:33 a.m.
Right, Keqing420. I forgot gutteral is red/green. Thank you for pointing that out.
Also, Some other cards you can run to combat a control deck are; Defense Grid, Boseiju, Who Shelters All, and Cavern of Souls barring budget considerations anyways.
January 1, 2021 12:40 a.m.
Thanks for all the suggestions! Gave me some really good ideas to explore some different angles, Keqing420 to answer your question, it's not necessarily that I dislike other colors, -I know other colors can handle stuff -especially the White lockdown enchantments better than red can, but I guess it has more to do with the fact that I Love mono-red (It's what I first starting playing with) and I'm tired of it not being taken seriously in Commander, I really want to prove that Red can be a serious contender and not something that can just be countered with Blue, Locked down with With White, Destroyed by Black and overrun by Green. I'm the only one in all my groups that even really uses red. So besides playing 1v1 against my buddy's Daxos deck, I'm usually in a chaos game against 3-5 other players all using different colors.
January 1, 2021 1:22 a.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #7
Looking at all the suggestions, have you considered running them in Neheb, the Eternal? He can blast out sick amounts of damage and mana to stay relevant in the lategame.
January 1, 2021 6:04 a.m.
Hey Hey, the equation is easy, the reason why counterspell decks are so good is their mana advantage. If you play a 6 cmc Wormcoil Engine and your opponent removes it with 2 mana, you have a disadvantage. But if your deck floods the board with one and two drops, the disadvantage is on the side of the guy with the 2 cmc counterspells. That is why you performed pretty good with a low cmc Krenko list. The problem in red - other than in blue - is, you will not find the necessary cardadvantage for this battle of low cmc so easily. Low cmc cardadvantage is key and the choices depend heavily on your build. Light up the stage is an easy include in most lists, Jeskas Will is extremly powerfull, Anjes Ravager is also great, Wheels are also an autoinclude. There are a few artifacts which give great support to mono red, Skullclamp, Senseis Divining Top etc.. In the end you have to find a way to balance everything out. To build a competitive mono red deck is far more advanced than building a competitive blue deck in edh. Good luck and Happy New Year!
January 1, 2021 8:30 a.m.
GhostChieftain says... #9
I have a friend who has played Daretti, Scrap Savant to great effect. If you can land an early daretti, Goblin Engineer, or Goblin Welder you need not worry as much of counterspells. He also makes consistent draw and can be used to combo to some extent.
January 1, 2021 2:14 p.m.
I second the Daretti, Scrap Savant suggestion, but Feldon of the Third Path is also an option. Which works best probably depends on what your friend's deck is better against.
January 1, 2021 2:48 p.m.
Daretti ist much more powerful than Feldon. But Daretti is also a little difficult to pilot, Feldon is more fast forward. I will post my daretti list later, I wanted to do that already last year :) Daretti is my favourite commander...
January 1, 2021 4:06 p.m.
Grubbernaut says... #12
Mono red is a bad time, even if optimized. It's probably better than mono white, but adding literally any other color opens up so much more, my friend.
January 1, 2021 8:44 p.m.
I haven't played my mono-red into a control matchup, but I use Torbran, Thane of Red Fell as my commander. The power of this guy on the field plus Purphoros, God of the Forge can end games very quickly.
But yeah control matchups suck. FYI Squee, the Immortal might be a work around for you, if you can find a way to abuse that.
January 2, 2021 1:41 a.m.
For mono-red commanders, especially versus blue, there are two keys that will lead to the greatest consistent success - 1) out race your opponent (typically with a lower mana curve) and 2) maintain similar or greater card advantage to mitigate any counter magic directed at you.
As others have previously stated, you can attempt to beat the blue player at their own game by focusing on blue hate options specifically, like Pyroblast, Red Elemental Blast, Burnout and Active Volcano. You can also use copy spells like Fork, Reverberate and Reiterate to beat them at their own game to counter their counter magic spells. Finally, you can venture down the road of mass land destruction specific to blue with by casting Overmaster into a Boil or Boiling Seas, bringing down the hammer if their counter magic remains focused on you. Unfortunately, there aren't enough of these card options to realistically create a reliable strategy to overcome blue counter magic, so deck building choices and strategies become even more valuable in most cases.
Simply outracing the blue player in resources and board state in the early game can be very effective. The lower your average CMC, the more you can advance you game plan before counter magic can oppress you. However, you then need to be able to recover your card advantage. While possible in mono-red, the best options are limited and can definitely stretch a budget. Wheel of Misfortune and Wheel of Fortune won't put you ahead in card advantage, but they'll definitely replenish your hand. Jeska's Will can be a powerful play, but it only affects a single turn. Most remaining options like Browbeat or Risk Factor are conditional to an opponent taking damage, which likely isn't a factor in commander if your needing cards in hand.
Based on all of these factors, unless you have the budget to pull together all of the blue hate spells and best draw option spells, I'd recommend giving a different commander in mono-red a try...Zada, Hedron Grinder. So long as you can get your commander in play, every single-creature targeted spell that can draw a card or scry becomes a cantrip or scry spell for every creature you have in play. Even if the original spell targeting Zada gets countered, the copies from the cast trigger can still resolve, so the value of individual counter spells is dramatically reduced for you opponent. Feel free to check out my specific list here: Yada...Yada...Zada
Best of luck with your mono-red goals and happy brewing.
January 2, 2021 2:50 a.m.
Zada is great, fun, and cheap to build. I also have a list, but its full of unnecessary, but decently effective, jank.
January 2, 2021 8:29 a.m.
Best bet is to just play a combo in your deck or something, backed up by red 'counterspells' like Red Elemental Blast, Ricochet Trap or Deflecting Swat and Reverberate(Copy their Counter, and counter theirs). Im actually putting together a mono-red deck(Rograkh//Jeska Cloudstone combo)
January 2, 2021 12:21 p.m.
This has got me pumped, I think the Zada, Hedron Grinder concept is a particularly intriguing idea that, honestly, I haven't even thought of exploring -Azdranax I'm looking at your deck tech now :). Also never messed much with Daretti, Scrap Savant, So I think that's another thing I'm going to look into. Thanks all!
January 2, 2021 11:40 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #18
May I suggest Akroma, Angel of Fury as an include? She's pretty expensive (cmc-wise), but she can't be countered and basically makes you Daxos-proof. Krark, the Thumbless might be another fun commander to build around, but I don't think he's powerful enough to defeat this Daxos deck.
January 5, 2021 2:04 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #19
...and I just reread Daxos's abilities. Well, I guess Akroma isn't quite as good as I made it out to be. Still should be a pretty good finisher, if games against him go long.
January 5, 2021 2:05 p.m.
Question before I proceed do you only play mono red? You weren't very specific on that but if it's not the case though I'm guessing you like to play goblins alot as is
MagicMarc says... #2
Red's answers to control are racing and LD. With that being said, Maybe run all of the red spells that can't be countered? Stuff like Lightning Mare, Rending Volley, Urza's Rage, Akroma, Angel of Fury, Chandra, Awakened Inferno, Banefire, and Exquisite Firecraft.
Run copies of red counterspells and blue destruction like Red Elemental Blast, Pyroblast, Burnout, Reverberate and Guttural Response.
Run a suite of protection from blue and protection from white creatures.
Run tons of card advantage to outrace their ability to keep countering you. Stuff like Risk Factor, War Room, Skullclamp or even run wheel effects so every time you empty your hand you refill and make them dump what they holding.
If he has a lot of nonbasics, Blood Moon will slow down their deck too.
I don't know their decklist or yours but some of these should help speed up your tempo. And you can stop bounce running protection from blue or hexproofing your creatures.
January 1, 2021 12:10 a.m.