Counter target blue instant spell.
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|Duel Decks: Mind vs. Might (DDS)||Uncommon|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Guttural Response occurrence in decks from the last year
All decks: 0.0%
Guttural Response Discussion
6 days ago
kwje123: Thanks for the message!
The answer is simple. It shuts off 25% of my deck as I have 66 non land cards, 16 of which are instants. I have no idea what your deck has, but I am a fan of the four counterspells I run to hate on blue: Burnout, Guttural Response, Red Elemental Blast. Pyroblast
1 month ago
I had Warstorm Surge on my original idea list when building the deck, but I just did not put it in due to the cmc. With it being 6 cmc it would have to survive out on the field for an entire turn around the board before I was able to utilize it. With most of the creatures necessary for the combo already costing 5/6 it just didn't make my cut.
My highest priorities at the moment are to get Evolutionary Leap or Greater Good in the list, but I haven't decided what would be cut yet. I am leaning towards cutting a ramp piece since there are currently 15 in the deck. I would also like to try to get Pyroblast and Red Elemental Blast into the deck as well since my only counter is currently Guttural Response
1 month ago
To remove: Aggressive Mammoth, Byway Courier Chittering Witch, Footlight Fiend,Gluttonous Troll,Gruul Spellbreaker, Judith, the Scourge Diva,Keeper of Fables, Ogre Siegebreaker, Primordial Wurm, Rapacious Dragon, Rubblebelt Rioters, Sengir Vampire, Spark Reaper, Sphinx of the Guildpact, Spikewheel Acrobat, Vindictive Vampire, Woodland Champion, Zhur-Taa Goblin
To add: Eternal Witness,Squee, the Immortal,Zulaport Cutthroat, Vexing Shusher, Goblin Matron, Munitions Expert, Krenko, Mob Boss, Warteye Witch, Sling-Gang Lieutenant, Goblin Trashmaster, Putrid Goblin, Dockside Extortionist, Arasta of the Endless Web, Creakwood Liege,Dragonlair Spider, Viscera Seer, Ayara, First of Locthwain, Pitiless Plunderer, Poison-Tip Archer, Sidisi, Undead Vizier, Sheoldred, Whispering One, Deathrite Shaman
2 months ago
Harmless Offering could have been in blue though. The difference is Donate allows you to give the targeted permanent to yourself if you choose to. Harmless Offering forces you to give to an opponent, so you can't use it on a creature you stole with Act of Treason or Claim the Firstborn to permanently give that stolen creature to yourself.
Even Reverberate is strictly worse from Fork. Let's say you play an important spell and your opponent tries to counter it with a blue counter spell. In return you could Reverberate the counter spell effectively countering it with the copy, but if your opponent(s) has a second counter spell in the form of Red Elemental Blast or Guttural Response they can effectively win the counter war. If you had used Fork and their were no other counter spells available you would have won the counter war.
Also Fork is better even if you account for spells like Blue Elemental Blast/Flashfreeze because that spell can counter the initial Fork/Reverberate anyway. Fork only fails if the spell you want to copy isn't red and you need it to target a creature with protection from red which is more niche than the example I gave above.
Effectively you can make a practical reprint so long as it has some aspect it falls short in, even if that downside is really negligible.
2 months ago
Your very top tier auto-include for lists is going to look like
- Force of Will "free"
- Pact of Negation "free"
- Swan Song cheap to cast and wide in restrictions
- Mana Drain color heavy but ramps the following turn
- Mental Misstep "free"
- Delay not color heavy and hits any spell, delaying for 3 turns is the same as solving it in very fast competitive EDH
Your situational includes are going to look like
- Force of Negation This can't protect your own combos, so it isn't wanted in every list. This is ran in QUITE A FEW lists though, always worth a consider.
- Counterspell Usually seen in mono or dual color decks as the cost can be hard in some 4 or 5 color shells
- Dispel Sometimes cut for a more general counter
- Muddle the Mixture Limited in scope and color heavy but this is more often slotted as a hard-to-counter tutor with a counterspell as icing on the top
- Narset's Reversal this card is pretty nice. While it does see a lot of play, it definitely isn't an autoinclude yet by any means.
- Spell Pierce Before you mock this card, consider how well it catches ultra fast mana rocks and tutors. Noncreature is very wide, and it stops Sol Ring Mana Crypt Mox Diamond Mox Opal Chrome Mox Mox Amber Mana Vault Vampiric Tutor Imperial Seal Mystical Tutor Worldly Tutor Gamble Dark Ritual and SO MUCH MORE. Even for a tempo card, you're still going to catch weird stuff like someone's Rhystic Study because they tapped out to pay for it. Its very strong against blistering fast combo decks, which is why it sees competitive play.
Other blue stuff is usually just too expensive. Paying over 2 mana for a counterspell just doesn't cut it when there are so many threats for so cheap. Don't pay more than 2 for a counterspell unless it does something wild on top. Counterspells with fewer restrictions on what it can counter are going to be better.
This is where it gets saucy boys
- Red Elemental Blast Pyroblast are VERY good. In a pod, there is almost definitely blue at the table. Every single red deck can slot these for commander without fear. Do note that REB works against any spell that includes blue (multicolor), while pyro only works against spells that are ONLY blue (monocolor).
- Fork Reverberate (Twincast) these allow you to copy a counterspell to create a counterspell. More access for red to counterspells. They also conveniently work very well against tutors, ramp, big draw spells, and extra turn spells.
- Guttural Response Weird hybrid color and somewhat restricted but still a good include in most RG decks.
- Burnout a bit worse then the elemental blasts as it costs 2 mana and it is limited. The cantrip is nice though
- Mana Tithe not that good in EDH but give it a whirl I guess
- Lapse of Certainty costing 3 hurts, but this is more a tempo card than anything.
- Dash Hopes Don't play this card in EDH lol
- Withering Boon on the chunkier end at 2 CMC, but in a color that doesn't get much of this. The 3 life and the restriction hurt, but definitely EDH playable. Every deck runs a commander, 99% of which are creatures
- Imp's Mischief can counter a spell by having it target Mischief, as can Misdirection Shunt Swerve and Ricochet Trap.
- Veil of Summer 1 mana green Cryptic Command
- Autumn's Veil Counterspell + silence against UB
- Bind I bet you didn't even know this card existed. Cantrips. GOOD IN THE YISAN MIRROR MATCH?
- Avoid Fate Weird protection oriented counterspell
- Nether Void Mostly ran in stax builds, brutal lockout card
- Planar Chaos One of my new favorite cards. Brutal with recursion like Hall of Heliod's Generosity. Play when you're ahead
- Deathgrip Lifeforce These are based if you have any method of color shifting. Realistically, you could run Lifeforce in Momir Hackball. These cards can cause scoops on casual tables lol.
- Vexing Shusher can render counterspells useless. Similarly, Dosan the Falling Leaf Grand Abolisher Prowling Serpopard Gaea's Herald can all protect against counterspells. Far more marginal but still worthwhile are Hall of Gemstone and Ritual of Subdual for turning off counterspells for opponents.
2 months ago
I think counter magic is perfectly fine as a concept. It's a way to deal with issues, before they actually become an issue and it examplifies one of blue's main weaknesses: Difficulty in dealing with the board. I used to hate counterspells when I got into Magic again (during Lorwyn, damn Faeries), as they simply seem like a disability to play the game; "I want to play something." - "You may not". I have since accepted their place in the game and their importance.
The reason I still do dislike counter magic is because it exists to provide a strength to cover a weakness. A weakness that since then has been partially filled out by strong answers to the board over the course of Magic's history. One of the main offenders is Cyclonic Rift , especially present in Commander and other multiplayer formats that are significantly slower than Duel Magic (1 on 1). Other offenders are cards that really should be enchantments, but opted for a more nefarious although simpler route: Curse of the Swine and Reality Shift , and their predecessors; Pongify and Rapid Hybridization .
As said by Berry in the article; Blue has the ability to change something from one thing to another. We have also seen various types of such polymorphing done in enchantment form; Darksteel Mutation , Lignify , Frogify . All of this makes perfect sense in what blue is capable of doing.
However doing a change irreversibly like the Curse of the Swine or Reality Shift, is giving hard answers to a color whose weakness is hard answers - at least on the board. Yeah, you replace them with a creature, but a much weaker creature and if a token, one you can permanently remove by having it change zone.
Another issue with counter magic is the tempo shift. The opponent casts a 5 mana spell, you cast a 2-3 mana counter spell. Suddenly there's a disparity of 2-3 mana in the counterspeller's favor. It is mainly equalized because the blue player must have ready mana, resulting in that player not developing their own board state. However that can again be offset by utilizing instant speed spells or abilities that either advance board state or card draw for the blue player.
If the blue player didn't have these chances to apply disparity in mana spent and benefit, the color would struggle to have meaningful strengths, I know that. However the issue is in finding the fine line between how much mana disparity is acceptable. The cat is out of the bag on this one, as there have already been printed numerous versions of unconditional counterspells that have set a precedent for what blue counterspells are allowed to do and how cheaply.
If you compare a counterspell to a destroy spell, the main difference is obviously zone of application and also timing of application. One proactive, one reactive (well actually both are reactive, but you probably know why I have to make a distinction). Reactive spells provide a lot more flexibility in when you're required to use them. Their main problem is that sometimes reactive spells are too late to cause the same mana disparity that a counterspell does. As soon as that permanent hits the battlefield, an ability may come into effect, be it triggered, static or active. A reactive spell cannot avoid that.
Also take into account that blue can deal with any spell in existence, with the possible exception of spells with Split Second, specifically designed to be uninteractive - and still they can be interacted with . If there's a spell that is uncounterable, you can get creative with Venser, Shaper Savant , Time Stop , Mindbreak Trap , Ashiok's Erasure , there's load of ways to get around "uncounterable". Blue is also the color that will straight up see a threat on the board and simply take it for themselves, with Control Magic , Gather Specimens , Blatant Thievery , Expropriate . Effectively a removal, card draw and threat all in one.
No other color can boast the same catch all mechanic. White comes close for something in the same ballpark, but it is still just a bleak imitation - as countermagic goes. And evidently look at that price tag.
In the earlier days of Magic, blue was not the only user of countermagic. I feel like you could provide other colors with more conditional types of countermagic, to better even it out. And not just anti countermagic like Guttural Response . Blue would still be the best, but not the sole user. - White is a color that protects itself, so something like Hindering Light is the most likely avenue to take White Countermagic, anything that touches my stuff - go away. Think Equinox in terms of templating but not necessarily that specific. Giving their spells on the stack protection from a color or supertype or plain "old" Hexproof. - Green already has an affinity to provide hexproof to their stuff, Heroic Intervention and Veil of Summer , so expanding on that seems reasonable. - Red could go the Fork / Shunt route but is unlikely to get countermagic that straight up nullifies other types of spells than spells with targets. - Black is kinda difficult. The usual is just to tack an alternative payment of life, cards or permanents on an otherwise Blue card. Black already have an indirect proactive answer through selective discard, like Duress . The issue is these are all sorcery speed, so if an opponent suddenly starts drawing a lot of cards, it can be difficult for black to be proactive in time. So perhaps just providing Duress at instant speed through a condition would be acceptable. Something like "Instant Duress may be cast as an instant if an opponent has drawn two or more cards this turn." / "Instant Duress may be cast as an instant if the target opponent has 5 or more cards in hand". Any kind of variation on that.
Of course some would talk about color pie bleeding/breaking, but ain't that already happening by giving blue hard removal (by proxy) and large scale soft board removal? I know some of these issues are mainly aimed at multiplayer formats, but we cannot ignore that Magic has grown to be something else than only Duel Magic (1 on 1). Blue's counter magic is here to stay, but is it too much to ask that the other colors can get even slightly in on the action if not directly, then indirectly by interacting more with the stack?
Green has one of the best palettes available to them for a slightly slower format; mana ramp, card draw, large threats, ability to scale well, protective measures, explosive finishers and a hell lot of combo potential and pieces.
I think Green is only beaten slightly by Black in terms of Commander due to tutors in a singleton format. And because Black can cheat mana costs or pays differently, has access to card draw and good finishers, along many more combo pieces.
Blue is one of the only colors that reliably can stop combo or finishers dead in their tracks. Reversibly, they are the color best suited to keep those combos or finishers uninterrupted. They have the best access to card advantage and resource manipulation. And extra turns.
There's a reason that many cEDH decks are mainly some variation of Sultai colors (Green, black and blue) with maybe one added color or full WUBRG. I think this picture would be more diverse, if more colors became able to interact better. The ability to interact is one of the core foundations and strengths of Magic. Counter magic is a pillar of this interaction, more colors should find a way to do it or something similar.
3 months ago
Thank you for your suggestions. The difference between gruul signet and talisman are minimal. Note under the future edits section, I will be testing out Dockside Extortionist in it's place due to all of the artifacts and enchantments in the meta. It can sometimes whiff, but it's worth trying. It also boosts my creature count.
Guttural Response - I'm not trying to make the deck anti-blue at the moment. The few anti-blue cards I have like Dosan and City of Solitude not only stop blue, but more importantly spot removal on my turn. Moreover it's only for instant spells. I would run Ricochet Trap prior to this as it is more flexible and still stops blue for the same cost.
Craterhoof Behemoth - Better in decks that go wide. This deck acts like a sniper, one powerful bullet as opposed to many smaller shots.
Blightsteel Colossus - If I were to add it, I would cut Kozilek, but the draw 4 is super useful and I am not a fan of infect, or else i would add Putrefax as well. Nothing wrong with the strategy, just not my cup of tea. Note I took out Aggravated Assault to ensure this deck is more fair.
Selvala's Stampede - Interesting, very interesting. I'm curious to see how this would play out. Thank you for bringing it to my attention
3 months ago
Guttural Response while yes it is anti-blue, having a straight up counter of your own to answer counter magic is fantastic and blue players do not expect it from the Gruul player. Further you can force them to double down and burn off another counter spell to keep down the play you're going for.
Further this sort of deck begs for Selvala's Stampede which most people will always respond with "Free" so you just wait to cast it until you've got plenty of permanents in hand, which can allow you to build a massive board state.