[Community Discussion]: Modern Chat
Modern forum
Posted on April 25, 2015, 8:42 p.m. by Epochalyptik
This thread is dedicated entirely to Modern. Feel free to post your thoughts on the meta, ideas for your next decklist, and just chat generally about the format!
Of course, you can always start a new thread if you're interested in discussing one particular aspect of the format; this thread should be used for the quick thoughts and informal questions about the format.
This discussion will be ongoing; you are free to post here as long as you're on topic.
This is NOT a deck help thread. Please do not spam deck help requests.
JexInfinite says... #2
If you want to be more combo oriented, Anticipate is definitely better than Telling Time. Telling Time at all in a Twin deck feels wrong. I want to dig for that specific cards, because chances are I have 1 combo piece, or both, and just need to protect the combo, or wait it out, and want to build a better hand whilst waiting.
Anticipate will give you the best of 3 with little consequence. It is also a lot less skill intensive. Telling Time requires you to predict what your opponent will do, and how you will respond to that.
April 28, 2015 9 a.m.
I think neither fit U/R-Twin. It's primarily a control-deck and only secondarily a combo-deck. You win more games without the combo than vice versa (unlike scapeshift, which is mainly a combo deck and secondarily a control-deck). You want tempo-cards like Remand and cards that impact the board while denying your opponent ressources like Deceiver Exarch, Pestermite and Snapcaster Mage.
So you should look for cards that help your primary goal and neither Anticipate nor Telling Time do that. You might say: "but Twin was playing Dig Through Time when it was legal!" And I will say yes: because DTT is so overly powerful that even if it doesn't support your primary goal, it will help to give you such a huge advantage so the other deck can't keep up.
April 28, 2015 9:36 a.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #5
The primary goal of a Twin deck is to win with the combo, Your opponents know that which makes the deck much better, They have to live in fear. Game 1 you combo, game 2 you Morph into a more controlling deck.
I would look at Anticipate as a curve filler, Having no turn 2 plays other than remand doesn't feel right to me. As Chief said, Traditions aren't always correct when it comes to deckbuilding.
And I was looking at this card as a 2 of, Not a play set, Whilst comparing them to fairly subpar given the expected metagame.
April 28, 2015 10:04 a.m.
lemmingllama says... #6
Shouldn't you also be running Mana Leak at the 2 CMC spot? It's very useful to get into the late game against the more midrangey decks.
April 28, 2015 10:08 a.m.
That is simply not true. Twin mostly wins without the combo. The combo is more like "the Sword of Damocles". It prevents you from tapping out on your turn, which is very strong against midrange-decks. Twin only goes for the combo if the opponent is obviously weak to it, like tron decks that simply cannot interact with the combo G1 or if the opponent is tapped out and you don't have to fear removal.
However I understand your reasoning behind Anticipate. If you feel comfortable with running 2 you should definitely do so. I'm still not convinced it's correct to run that card in Twin.
April 28, 2015 10:08 a.m.
PerfectDisguise says... #8
This may have already been said here, but what are the thoughts on Abrupt Decay? A 2 CMC uncounterable spell that destroys essentially everything in the format. Is it too overpowered?
April 28, 2015 10:41 a.m.
Well anticipate does help you find the counterspell you need at instant speed too.
April 28, 2015 10:46 a.m.
@PerfectDisguise currently you don't want more than 2 Abrupt Decay. It's not good against Infect, Burn and Abzan, really bad against anything UWR be it control or geist anything. However it's a nice universal answer to bullsh*t decks like 8-rack and can save your ass against stupid Blood Moon - also it kills Twin.
It is by far not too overpowered, nor is it overpowered at all.
April 28, 2015 10:50 a.m.
PerfectDisguise decay has already been considered one of the best removal spells ever printed.
April 28, 2015 10:51 a.m.
Not in the current meta, but it is certainly WAAAY to good.
April 28, 2015 10:53 a.m.
No it is not. Why would it be wayyyy too good? As I already said above it's a nice universal answer. But what do you do with your waaaay too good Abrupt Decay when your opponent goes: Lingering Souls into Siege Rhino into Tasigur, the Golden Fang flashback Lingering Souls? Or T1 Goblin Guide, T2 Lava Spike EOT Lightning Bolt - oh you killed my Guide after it has already dealt 4 dmg - oh well. Or activate Inkmoth Nexus, Pendelhaven, attack Mutagenic Growth Become Immense, oh you only have Abrupt Decay well that's too bad...
April 28, 2015 10:56 a.m.
I'm certain you have used it before, and I know you know it's really good, since you're a rock player.
April 28, 2015 11 a.m.
PerfectDisguise says... #17
That fact that it kills not only creatures, but permanents AND is uncounterable, all for less than a doom blade, to me, makes it extremely overpowered. No it doesn't work in EVERY situation, but as far as removal goes, nothing else really compares.
April 28, 2015 11:01 a.m.
Abrupt Decay is most definitely a fantastic card. I wouldn't go as far as saying it's overpowered though.
April 28, 2015 11:03 a.m.
I would. Not that I want to change that though... : )
April 28, 2015 11:04 a.m.
Thank you Nef.
I never denied, that it's a good card. But it is most definitely not overpowered.
April 28, 2015 11:28 a.m.
It is one of the best removal spells in all of modern and hits a significant portion of the format. However it also misses a significant portion of the meta. It'll save your ass against Twin. It'll do work against Tempo. It'll be adequate but not ideal against aggro. However it is utterly useless against 4 mana stuff and also things like Voice of Resurgence. It's still a solid 3 of. It's never going to completely let you down. The decks where it misses Siege Rhino, it does hit Goyf so there is something. However BGW decks do run 3-4 Path to Exile now for a reason haha.
April 28, 2015 11:32 a.m.
Does Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver have any modern viability? I mean he's a 3 mana planeswalker. Is he perfect? No, but I can't help but think he could be really solid in the right kind of deck... If nothing else he could draw some early hate to clear the way for your main threats.
April 28, 2015 11:43 a.m.
lemmingllama says... #23
Abrupt Decay is so nice, there are virtually no games where it isn't relevant to have. Like any card it isn't ideal in every matchup, but a card that can't be countered and removes all early game threats is pretty great.
As for Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver, I'm a little iffy on it. It's only good against creature based decks and only if you can protect it. Still, I think the only deck that can really support it right now is Sultai Control decks that are designed to combat a local meta. Otherwise the +2 will just miss and nothing happens.
April 28, 2015 12:15 p.m.
PerfectDisguise says... #24
ChiefBell I'm glad you mentioned Voice of Resurgence. I recently built a token deck around it with the hopes that it would fare well against abzan. Your thoughts on it would be most appreciated.
Be Fruitful And Populate
that's the name but for some reason I can't tag it.
April 28, 2015 12:35 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #25
Let's talk white removal beyond path... White has a bunch of options all which see like no play...
Journey to Nowhere Selesnya Charm Temporal Isolation Condemn Marrow Shards Celestial Flare Oppressive Rays Pacifism Oblivion Ring Devouring Light Porphyry Nodes
April 28, 2015 12:38 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #26
You need to use the deck slug, which is currently 23-04-15-selesnya-tokens. If you want the slug to be the same as the name, edit your deck and check off the "Reset Deck Slug" box.
April 28, 2015 12:40 p.m.
@ lemmingllama so you're telling me you keep Abrupt Decay in against decks like: Scapeshift, Gifts and UWR? lel...
April 28, 2015 12:48 p.m.
PerfectDisguise says... #28
Thankyou. Anybody who wants to check out the deck and give advice is welcome. Any advice is appreciated.
April 28, 2015 12:50 p.m.
PerfectDisguise says... #30
My deck has voice, brimaz, and Precinct Captain as a token generator. Didn't splash black just out of personal preference
April 28, 2015 12:55 p.m.
PerfectDisguise says... #31
It also uses Selesnya Charm, which you mentioned above. I do like it for it versatility. Though I don't see myself using it for it's removal very often it is an option, which I like.
April 28, 2015 12:59 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #32
I used to run a secondary standard deck rather similar to yours... Quite fond of the charm.
April 28, 2015 1:04 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #33
In my experience the charm was removal almost exclusively. Creatures could deal with anything below a 5/5 so the charm curved perfectly.
April 28, 2015 1:07 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #34
@Putrefy True, but you see a lot more Abzan, Delver, Twin, Burn, Affinity, etc. No removal spell is useful in all situations, and Abrupt Decay has more uses than ye standard Doom Blade. It's still relevant in some matchups where other removal is useless, such as Bogles to hit their enchantments.
April 28, 2015 1:29 p.m.
PerfectDisguise says... #36
Compare Abrupt Decay to any other removal spell in the format and tell me it's not overpowered. It's essentially a Hero's Downfall and a Disenchant in one card. For two mana! Oh ya, and did I mention it's uncounterable..!!!
April 28, 2015 1:43 p.m.
I think it's great but not overpowered. Modern has removal like Path to Exile and Lightning Bolt. Lighting bolt is far more damaging then abrupt decay. Look at all the creatures that are almost playable in modern, one of the biggest things that keeps a lot of them from not being competitively viable is the fact that a lot of them die to bolt.
April 28, 2015 1:52 p.m.
Still people (me included) tend to run more Terminates, because it kills more relevant threats. Look at Reid Dukes latest list - he ran a singleton Abrupt Decay (which is almost correct, if you ask me).
Yeah well let's compare it then: Path to Exile vs Abrupt Decay. Lightning Bolt vs Abrupt Decay. Let's use this http://mtgtop8.com/topcards?f=MO&meta=51 useful site to compare Abrupt Decay to other removal spells, shall we?
So in the top 20 most played cards of the format, we find: Lightning Bolt and Path to Exile - but no Abrupt Decay... hmmm...
April 28, 2015 1:57 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #39
I love Abrupt Decay and it's IMO the best removal spell in modern. That being said it's not in favor at the moment but it'll come back around...
Personally I hate Path to Exile... Which seems to be the bees knees right now...
April 28, 2015 2:28 p.m.
PerfectDisguise says... #40
Path and bolt are amazing but they only hit creatures. Path has a pretty significant drawback and bolt doesn't kill everything. I think the main reason I think abrupt decay is overpowered is because it can kill so much and can't be countered.
April 28, 2015 3 p.m.
@Putrefy:
PerfectDisguise is completely right. Path can only hit creatures, bolt only hits weenies, but decay can hit almost everything played often other than Tron fatties and rhinos. And guess what? Path's downside is actually pretty huge, and again, bolt doesn't hit the important stuff like goyf, rhino, etc...
At this point the only thing worth discussing is whether decay or Terminate is superior, and the only reason there is even a discussion about that is that decay can't hit rhinos, Stormbreaths, and Voldarens.
April 28, 2015 3:20 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #42
Abrupt Decay has certainly warped the format in that decks that rely on 3 cmc permanents staying on the board just don't work anymore. Twin is the exception since it is so consistent in being one of the only 2 card T4 win combos.
April 28, 2015 3:20 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #44
The decks utilizing Bitterblossom or Phyrexian Unlife are some examples. Kiln Fiend and Jeskai Ascendancy storm decks are also a lot weaker because of Abrupt Decay.
April 28, 2015 3:22 p.m.
What impact on the format would adding Swords to Plowshares to modern have?
April 28, 2015 3:28 p.m.
OtakulordAndrew says... #47
It's another strong removal spell like Path to Exile, as it stands in legacy Swords to Plowshares is one of the best removal spells in the format if it was in modern that would be another great removal spell for white decks to abuse as they would probably run 3-4 Path to Exile and a play set of Swords to Plowshares it would also probably increase the number of abzan midrange decks while decreasing the number of other midrange decks such as jund and bug as well as strenghen decks such as uwr control decks.
April 28, 2015 3:36 p.m.
Cool. As someone who doesn't play modern, I don't know the decks, but the concepts are not foreign to me.
Thanks.
April 28, 2015 3:42 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #49
Well there's always tricks to get around the Decay but I agree that it singlehandedly killed multiple archetypes.
April 28, 2015 3:43 p.m.
Let's put it this way. Path is bonkers good, yet Swords to Plowshares > Path to Exile. Modern would become a shithole for everyone not using white.
bijschjdbcd says... #1
That comment is pretty much how I feel at the moment chief.
What would be better at 2 mana?
April 28, 2015 8:46 a.m.