Everyone is a critic...Kalonian Hydra
General forum
Posted on July 1, 2013, 4:29 p.m. by SnowCoveredRevenge
Today we will examine the mythic hydra from M14. We will go over ever line of this card and then decide if it is good or not.
Kalonian Hydra
3GG, Whoa! a five mana hydra???? LAME, no actually it is not, most of the previous hydras had to be cost for about this much to have any impact on the battlefield so this is reasonable, the only thing I am worried about is that it not being XGG will ultimately be viewed as a negative by the less astute players.
Creature-Hydra, HAIL HYDRA! YAY a new toy for my Ulasht, the Hate Seed casual deck, that is all moving on
Enters the battlefield with four +1/+1 counters,This is critical to his second ability and it works very well with Vorel of the Hull Clade and proliferate effects.
Whenever Kalonian Hydra attacks, double the number of +1/+1 counters on each creature you control. WOW! even if it had said just double the number of counters on myself this card would be a 8/8 monster on turn five with evasion, but this will double the counters on your Experiment One , Rakdos Cackler , Exava, blood witch. Hey you standard players here is a hint. And if you have two of these bad boys on the field which shouldn't be too hard considering in standard alone you have Progenitor Mimic , Clone , Evil Twin , Crackling Counterpart and so much more and who knows what clone effects are coming down the pike. Games will end in one hell of a hurry,
Trample, And there it is folks, this is how you make a mythic rare for green. Oh you have a blocker that's cool me and my now double strong buddies are just gonna go right over the top of em. let me say this again 8/8 with trample that doubles the counters on all your creatures (and yes all of your creatures because you are a smart deckbuilder) This guy is going to be in every deck that can make double green mana and cares about +1/+1 counters.
0/0, doesn't count because of the counters
..... Jesus Christ people if this thing does not get you excited for a core set I do not know what will. This is an auto All star in Standard, EDH, Cube, Casual. Timmy is gonna love it because it is a big beat stick, Johnny says let me break this with my other hydras and Spike says Hello Exava, blood-Witch let me introduce you to your new best friend, Let's go win some GP's together!
This card is absolute gold, (actually a burntish red orange) it is the hands down best card printed in this set and will be a major force to deal with in the upcoming standard. You thought Thragtusk was the best green could be, well this card is not Thragdaddy but he will stomp you into the ground. Now I do have to say this, yes he dies to removal, Doomblade and the list will go on and on, but the point is, if you do not have a piece of targeted removal in your hand and this big boy resolves, stuff is going to be very bad for you in one hell of a hurry.
Final Verdict, get 8 of them before they shoot up to 35 dollars this card will be the chase card out of the core set and rightly so because he will just end games on turn four. this card gets 10 out of 10 for me, everything on this card is absolutely outstanding and will be a dominate force. the only thing that leaves something to be desired is the name and lack of flavor text.
So what do you think am I right, is this card the next standard dominating mythic, or am I crazy and will this be the next Beguiler of Wills ? let me know!
SnowCoveredRevenge says... #3
good for you, but that also works with, Primeval Titan , Wurmcoil Engine , Sun Titan and the list goes on and on, your point that it dies to removal is invalid
July 1, 2013 4:53 p.m.
Not true.
Primeval Titan and Sun Titan have etb effects. Wurmcoil Engine leaves behind babies.
In standard, almost every creature at the high end of the curve has a etb ability.
July 1, 2013 4:54 p.m.
It's good but isn't as OMFGLOLWTF as you mentioned. Timmy must be in love for sure, but compared to a Thragtusk (same mana) it's that you're sure to get at least some value if it isn't countered.
You have to wait for a whole turn to attack, there isn't as much haste enabler in standard to be reliable. I can be cool in the right deck as a 1 or 2 of but no more and simply an endgame finisher, not your whole build based on it.
July 1, 2013 4:57 p.m.
SnowCoveredRevenge says... #6
but that is a symptom of design, not a necessity. good cards that have enter the battlefield effects are great because of the environment they are in. However they do not have to dramatically effect the board state when they resolve, this is what i call a Time Bomb, sure Thragtusk will gain you five life but he is an Advantage machine, this guy is all about muscle so they are two different kinds of bomb
July 1, 2013 4:58 p.m.
SnowCoveredRevenge says... #7
exava blood witch, ogre battledriver
theres some haste for ya
July 1, 2013 4:59 p.m.
No, that's exactly what it means. Good cards tend to have ETB effects because of those etb effects. It means that a creature directly impacts the game state the moment that it resolves. Yes, Thrag is an advantage machine, but that's what makes the card good. Games are won by gradual accumulation of advantage, rarely by a blowout fatty.
@ SnowCoveredRevenge, you just helped prove my point. Exava is good because she has haste. You can swing with her for 4 on turn 4.
My point wasn't that Kalonian Hydra dies to removal, it's that it can die to removal without affecting game state.
July 1, 2013 5:02 p.m.
Storm Crow is a 20-turn clock. If he resolves and you don't have a solution, you'll lose.
July 1, 2013 5:02 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #10
If you run this card I will laugh my arse off as I Bioshift all of it's counters onto your vastwood hydra then take control of and sacrifice it.
Mwahahhahahaahahahah.
Oh wait i don't have a deck that can do that.
July 1, 2013 5:13 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #11
MurasakiRose Card's don't have to effect the board state on the turn you play them, it's beneficial but it's not necessary.
As soon as things like this hit the field, in the right deck, you are on a clock, it's ticking away and you'll have to find a way of busting that clock before your time runs out. But whilst you are busying yourself with that, your opponent is visiting Ol' Knockerbottom's Clock Emporium and he's bringing home a grandfather clock.
July 1, 2013 5:19 p.m.
ThEdUnCeCaP says... #12
definitely a good fatty. but not necesarily game ending as it takes a turn to really impact the board
July 1, 2013 5:20 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #13
Having said all that however, i don't think the price of this card is going to rise that much, standard competitions don't see that many decks running counter's manipulation. You see a little, but these decks don't place all that well, in my experience.
July 1, 2013 5:21 p.m.
I do like this card though, I'd probably brew up some kind of gimmicky simic deck that cares about nothing but +1/+1 counters.
Turn 6 with this guy and Vorel out on the field, you could be hitting for 16 damage.
July 1, 2013 5:25 p.m.
pumpkinsword says... #15
35 dollars? I don't think so. Should start pretty high like most preorders, will settle around 8-10 in a few months I'm guessing, like Primordial Hydra , less if it sees no play in tournaments. If it sees a lot of play in tournaments, more like 13.
I really like that you can play Exava turn 4, as a 4/4 and swing for 4, then play this turn 5, swing with it, make it an 8/8 and exava a 5/5. How cool is that? Should be awesome in sealed, too.
July 1, 2013 5:34 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #16
There's a strong Casual FNM deck to be made here.
Jund Hydras, ft. DJ Exava.
Savageborn Hydra , Primordial Hydra , [NEW Hydra], [Other Jund Stuff].
The deck won't be tier 1, but it will win matches in entertaining ways.
July 1, 2013 5:34 p.m.
I concur that giving this guy haste is exactly the kind of thing that makes him valuable. He's not mana hungry like Savageborn Hydra
is, and having trample is an extremely important ability that the Gruul hydra sorely needed. This guy is still a 4/4 blocker on turn 3-5 (depending on the deck that uses him) and an 8/8 attacker on the following turn. I'm personally high on this card in either ramp or Jund Aggro strategies.
And for the record, this guy pairs well with Corpsejack Menace , so Jund Counters might become a thing if the format is slow enough after rotation. Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch , Corpsejack Menace , Savageborn Hydra , and Kalonian Hydra form an excellent midrange shell to build around, and that deck even gets to use Mizzium Mortars , Putrefy , and Doom Blade as premier removal spells.
July 1, 2013 5:40 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #18
T2: Scavenging Ooze , T3: Predator Ooze T4: Corpsejack Menace T5: Kalonia
T6: I do believe you are screwed good sir.
July 1, 2013 5:45 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #19
T4 Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch would be stronger. And more explosive.
July 1, 2013 5:47 p.m.
I think they should just straight up call it Kalonian "Pre-release Crusher" Hydra.
Even without any other cute interactions with Corpsejack Menace , Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch , etc. This guy kills you in 2 turns by himself for 5 mana. Sure he doesn't have an immediate board impact, but that kind of power does deserve at least some respect. It's sort of like a green Baneslayer Angel , a threat that demands to be addressed, but it doesn't contributes much else other than its body to the board.
July 1, 2013 5:57 p.m.
This will be in my simic dck for sure come rotation. Has anyone seen savage summoning. Combo that with this guy and an eot fatty that pumps everything I control during my attack phase the following turn seems hard to deal with. Spot removal? Ever heard of Simic Charm ?
July 1, 2013 6:28 p.m.
IAmKingTony says... #24
If you don't think this card is good, you are wrong and should feel bad.
July 1, 2013 7:51 p.m.
We should revisit this thread in October and reevaluated what we think of this card.
I am bookmarking it now.
July 1, 2013 8:31 p.m.
Okay I think this card is good. Really good. But I have to disagree with IAmKingTony. Not liking/or thinking this card is good is not an auto "you should feel bad". People who are generally fans of green will see this and think "how can I break this card". People who are playing other colors will see this card and think of ways to shut this card down. It's all about opinion and personal taste. Only time will tell. In that I agree with seevers35.
July 1, 2013 8:54 p.m.
sabrepaisan says... #27
This cards ability mixed with the blood witch and slumbering dragon is nowhere to be found in m14. So sad. :(
July 1, 2013 9:04 p.m.
Gyre Sage hasn't been mentioned yet? Disappointing. Ramp up to it quickly, Get more ramp. Monogreen, or jund. Varolz, the Scar-Striped , Slitherhead , friggin Crowned Ceratok , Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch has been mentioned Young Wolf , Experiment One , Strangleroot Geist , Vorapede , maybe even Ajani, Caller of the Pride could work well. This is going to be one guy who you'll need a fast answer to. Thragtusk is just a 5/3 all the time and has 'persist' when he dies. If you don't kill this guy he'll leave a massive impact like a giant Predator Ooze for you to deal with. This guy will make monogreen viable, and jund will have a new friend.
July 1, 2013 9:06 p.m.
I'm thinking Cloudfin Raptor Gyre Sage Elusive Krasis . Just need a decent 2 drop other than gyre. I like being on the low side with a curve. The hydra will be new thngs for me. My current deck caps out at a 4 drop with Master Biomancer
July 1, 2013 9:23 p.m.
Well... with Gyre Sage 5 mana shouldn't be too much of a problem. Are you using Strangleroot Geist ? Or is the mana cost a little too specific? Frilled Oculus is also good for evolving and provides a pumpable body also.
July 1, 2013 9:29 p.m.
My current build is straitht simic with a twist. Evolved Aggro has been good to me but I'm thinking long term including post rotation. I want to pick up as many of this guy as a possible. Can see his price shooting up a little. It won't be a $50 card or anything. But valuable? I'm inclined to think yes
July 1, 2013 9:32 p.m.
I don't think it will be valuable at all because it won't be winning any PTQs. It's fun and all, but not competitive enough for top dollar.
July 1, 2013 10:07 p.m.
I reckon it'll sit around $10. It's solid, and if they don't have an answer to it soon it will overwhelm most opponents, but it is easy to remove and with Doom Blade coming back it is likely to be killed easily.
July 1, 2013 10:18 p.m.
MTG_Player says... #35
it's not very good, to prone to removal, too mana expensive, meh
July 1, 2013 11:31 p.m.
SnowCoveredRevenge says... #36
All I have to say is that Boros Reckoner was a 3.99 card during spoiler season...
July 1, 2013 11:34 p.m.
sabrepaisan says... #37
everyone keeps talking a bout Doom Blade around cards like this when Ultimate Price does the exact same thing to it. Now I realize with RTR we had lots of hybrid dudes and multicolored dudes, but lots of the biggest bombs were still mono. I'm excited as anyone else about it, but Personally I'd rather run Putrefy any day. and I still like this dude.
July 1, 2013 11:41 p.m.
Putrefy is a better card... But it also requires green. In b/r/w unless you want to go Orzhov Charm the most reliable removal would be Doom Blade . It kills about 1/4 creatures. Ultimate Price will be either a sideboard card or act as a 'fifth' Doom Blade , since there are lots of targets that doom blade can hit, but it can't like Loxodon Smiter , Boros Reckoner and Huntmaster of the Fells Flip (nearly forgot Voice of Resurgence lol. There's not a lot of stuff that's black in the format and only black. Sure, there's Deathrite Shaman , Obzedat, Ghost Council and Falkenrath Aristocrat etc. but most of them are multicoloured anyway, so price can't hit them either. Moral of the story... Putrefy is good.
July 2, 2013 5:42 a.m.
Weston Ayarza says... #39
I'm kind of surprised somebody is examining a green mythic rare creature closely. I'm pretty sure every one you cast is like, I TRAMPLE YOU FOR DAMAGE AND SHIT. YOU CAN BLOCK IF YOU WANT BUT STUFF DIES CUZ I'M HUGE. If it was just a 6/6 for 5, or frankly any creature with double green... it's going to win you the game if nobody finds an answer. +1/+1 counter interaction is neat though. I feel like this post should instead read KALONIA HYDRA USES COUNTERS FOR HIS POWER AND TOUGHNESS. We can all read. There are answers for it. It makes AEtherize better. I can get behind that. I miss Primeval Titan .
July 2, 2013 6:39 a.m.
The average price of the card on TCG is $17.98. Chandra is $20.02 and Garruk is $17.98. Pretty pricey.
July 7, 2013 4:14 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #41
I change my previous estimation, I believe this card will start at a high price, then drop like a stone as people realise no one will run it, then after rotation people will wisen up and the price will go up again.
Turn 5: this is a 4/4 blocker.
Turn 6: this is a 8/8 trample attacker.
Turn 7: this is a 16/16 trample attacker.
Turn 8: Wait haven't I won yet.
Yes it dies to removal, but so do most creatures, it's not like every non-hexproof mythic goes straight into the bargain bucket.
Yes it doesn't affect the board immediately, but then so do a lot of creatures, it's not like every on-haste mythic goes straight into the bargain bucket.
Play this with elvish mystic, Zhur-Taa Druid and Exava, Rakdos Blood Witch . and you potentially have a:
Turn 3: 8/8 Trample attacker.
Turn 4 16/16 Trample attacker.
If you have guys like Scavenging Ooze , Slitherhead , Varolz, the Scar-Striped , you'll be boosting up your other creatures as well for an early victory.
This card is very strong by itself, and ridiculous in the right deck.
July 7, 2013 4:38 p.m.
Well, the hydra is officially the second most expensive card in the set.
July 10, 2013 8:18 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #43
That will change, i don't see grand prix top 8 giving up ol' swagtusk to run this.
July 10, 2013 10:30 a.m.
I can't say for sure that they'll run this as a replacement.... but they'll definitely give up "ol' swag tusk" as of September 27th.
July 10, 2013 10:41 a.m.
The reason I don't see high places for this card is a matter of value. Everything dies to removal, but not everything is neutered by it. Thragtusk benefits by entering and exiting the battlefield. The hydra, however, will have done nothing between entering and exiting if it isn't used in combat. His value against control is almost nothing if they're deck can handle a big body.
July 10, 2013 4:29 p.m.
...so, you feel it's not great against one deck type, and you think that that's enough to prevent it from being used?
It's a 5 mana 2 turn clock, in a color that ramps and has a lot of supporting cards against control, which you can easily sideboard out without being a detriment to the deck... not that I see it being commonly removed.
July 11, 2013 10:22 a.m.
Any deck can use removal, it's just more relevant against control.
July 11, 2013 4:10 p.m.
notamardybum says... #49
This card with master biomancer and corpsejack menace is going to be a tough combo to handle.
July 16, 2013 1:46 a.m.
Actually I think it'll be perfect in my Simic deck when Primordial Hydra finally rotates, if I can get a hand on a couple that is. I'm waiting to see what Theros holds, since hydra's are definitely in the realm of Greek/Roman mythology, there could be another amazing one right around the corner.
Krayhaft says... #2
-tap two-
-doom blade-
July 1, 2013 4:49 p.m.