your opinion on the banning of Sylvan Primordial in edh
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Feb. 3, 2014, 6:01 p.m. by z2aaa
i dont think that was a legit banned cardSylvan Primordial personally i know of alot worse cards like Deadeye Navigator Cyclonic Rift im a blue player even i say there's better cards to bann
Sylvan Primordial ETB effect is like an Acidic Slime that can also hit Planeswalkers and any other non-creature perm. it only makes sense that the primordial would get abused in EDH, especially multi-player environments considering it says, 'for each opponent...'. Yea it's kinda broken when paired with cards like Deadeye Navigator which is legal.
February 3, 2014 6:08 p.m.
I honestly feel like Sorin Markov is much more degenerative than Sylvan Primordial . With Sylvan Primordial , the most someone can do is blow up lands and set each opponent back a turn. Sorin Markov just immediately cuts out 30 life. That's just stupid.
February 3, 2014 6:09 p.m.
like i said ive seen more abuse out of Deadeye Navigator than Sylvan Primordial
February 3, 2014 6:12 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #7
I love my Sylvan Primordial but I play a fair Mayael deck.
Between all the Clone s, Rite of Replication s, Deadeye Navigator s and reanimation effects available in the format it was too much. I agree it should go. Just because it can be played fairly doesn't mean it will be.
Is there a coincidence that most of the cards I named were blue?
February 3, 2014 6:14 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #11
I'm quite happy about this. A guy at my LGS plays a mono green deck that was somehow able to make infinite copies of sylvan primordial (Doubling season effects, though I don't remember how he made it a token), and he blew up everyone's field, ramped for the rest of his lands, and won. Sure, i've also got the primordial in my deck, but I feel that banning him does more good than harm. He can get really degenerate.
February 3, 2014 6:27 p.m.
I can now safely drop my number of lands per deck by at least 1.
February 3, 2014 6:33 p.m.
It deserved to be banned as it was far too advantageous to the user. Even if it immediately died, Sylvan Primordial removed any non-creature permanent for each opponent and allowed you to ramp up far more than necessary. This set you leagues ahead of your opponents.
As for why Deadeye Navigator wasn't banned, it requires set-up and mana for a combo, and it's still vulnerable to removal. The convoluted things it can do require time and protection to set up, whereas the primordial was a cast, and you were done.
February 3, 2014 6:38 p.m.
Sylvan Primordial is far better than Deadeye Navigator because it does something the turn it's played and so is less vulnerable to instant removal.
I'm glad it was banned. It was format warping to some extent.
February 3, 2014 6:56 p.m.
I'm with everyone on the Sylvan Primordial ban. It often came down on turn three or four and turned the game into Archenemy....and the Archenemy player could still win. Sylvan Primordial into entwined Tooth and Nail is just dumb when your opponents are back to having two or three mana each.
I still don't know why they didn't ban Deadeye Navigator . That card is just as broken. It's really hard to lose when you have one out on the table. Mystic Snake locks, repeatable Duplicant , Palinchron for infinite mana, etc. The list of stupid things you get to do with Deadeye Navigator is long. He's format warping in the sense that EDH games can quickly turn into which blue player gets their Deadeye Navigator out first.
Also, Hermit Druid . Why in God's name is this still legal in EDH?
February 3, 2014 7:05 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #16
I am not a fan of banning much of anything. But if that had to go, what about Cyclonic Rift ? I think they should both just stay legal.
February 3, 2014 7:17 p.m.
Hermit Druid isn't banned because all good players stock up on Bojuka Bog and a ton of other graveyard removal stuff that can come out T3 easily.
Deadeye Navigator has multiple faults - it requires 8 mana to both play and then flicker something, it's in a colour that has little ramp, it relies on other cards to be useful etc. It's very vulnerable to board wipes and early spot removal if you're in a competitive meta where each individual is running around 5 board wipes etc.
One the other hand, it's a lot harder to respond to Sylvan Primordial because it's often out very early, being in the perfect colour for ramp, and causes a massive advantage the turn its played. Conceivably -1 land to everyone else and +3 lands for you on T4. That's ridiculous. That's enough to even stop a field wipe from occurring. It's far scarier.
February 3, 2014 7:28 p.m.
FaustHarbinger says... #18
I personally can see the reasoning... but I am sad because I loved using it..
February 3, 2014 7:51 p.m.
Having been part of a game where a game lock was achieved through Sylvan Primordial -Eternal Witness -Tooth and Nail -Kederekt Leviathan -Clone (yes it's a janky combo, but playing mono-red wasn't helping), I'm glad Sylvan Primordial is banned.
February 3, 2014 8:14 p.m.
Grimgrinner says... #20
I feel that the ban was pretty silly. There's far more harmful things to the format, one of which (personal opinion) is Zur the Enchanter . At least he gets hated out often enough that groups ban it with house rules but still.
T1 land, Sol Ring , and any signet is a pretty crazy play too. (Simic Signet for reference). I feel that yes, mana ramping is a big part of EDH, but when it's vintage level power in a mostly casual format, it doesn't seem right to me.
I think Sorin Markov isn't too bad, especially now that Fated Retribution , Dreadbore , and Hero's Downfall are all now things. He also dies to any burn, vulerable to creatures (tho in MBC your creatures might be dead). Even Bramblecrush kills him.
Honestly though; Deadeye Navigator has SO many infinite combos that it's silly. There are numerous ways to get infinite mana with him; and with infinite mana, you can easily cast Blue Sun's Zenith to deck out a whole table; but you can even use the infinite mana for infinite recursion of say, Gray Merchant of Asphodel , or some other thing. I think the combo potential is just too wide and varied. Heck you could even use Wall of Blossoms to win with Labratory Maniac. Notice it's also in the same color as counterspells?
On the topic of primordial itself though, I feel that leaving it in the format would encourage players to include more counter-spells and spot removal, which is something more casual players seem reluctant to do. They have a Deadeye Navigator on the field and they're tapping a bunch of mana? Hmm I should probably do something; ANYTHING to disrupt that.
Seriously though; no Hermit Druid
ban? Cmon.
February 3, 2014 8:45 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #21
I'm annoyed that Deadeye Navigator is playable but I agree more or less with the above statements that he is easy to mitigate in comparison. I mainly hate it because it's a 5/5 with that ability (outside of Shock or Lightning Bolt range); if it had been say 2/2 it wouldn't be so crazy. I'd much rather deal with Hermit Druid though.
I have seen Sylvan Primordial be used destroy ever opponents' lands on turn 5 before. That was not amusing. If he'd read "nonland noncreature permanent" he'd be so much less absurd. He always seems to be used to create a lopsided Armageddon , where he seems to have been an attempt at something more like Bane of Progress , I think. I'm disappointed my Mayael the Anima deck is losing some removal and a reach creature but I'll live.
February 3, 2014 10:49 p.m.
Cards like Sorin Markov and Magister Sphinx aren't bad. They usually get used against the life gain decks in my play group (I'm look at you, Trostani, Selesnya's Voice ) and against the biggest threat. You can recover from 10 life unless everyone is targeting you. To which I say don't piss off your group so much.
I play multiplayer with 6-7 other people and Sylvan Primordial is pretty insane. With the amount of destruction and land ramping it puts you way ahead of the game. Not to meantion he's a 6/8 with REACH so you get a major blocker. Sylvamus Prime isn't really that powerful in 1v1, but he's ridiculous with upwards of 8 players.
Deadeye Navigator should be a contender for the ban list. I played against a Bant deck built solely around blinking and you couldn't target ANY of his creatures and you could never wipe his board. He evaded everything. He decided to soulbound Sylvan Primordial and later Terastodon . He blinked so much he started destroying lands and I scooped. I admire the deck idea and the strategy put into it, but after going through that, if you play a Deadeye Navigator I'm probably going to target you. Deadeye hasn't been considered for banned much because not a lot of people play it. Deadeyes aren't that vulnerable for removal if you run Bant or Simic for green ramping. If you have the mana to support the 1B blink, you can't target him or the creature it is soulbound to. The blink is very cheap. That's my experience with him.
Cyclonic Rift should not be banned and it shouldn't even considered. It's a blue board wipe, so what? Run Reliquary Tower . GG, play your stuff again. Its there for the guy that Twincast s Army of the Damned . I've seen that played out and it was amazing.
February 3, 2014 10:55 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #23
If anyone here wasn't aware, you can respond to Deadeye Navigator
's soulbond trigger. He won't have his ability before the trigger resolves, so he is vulnerable to removal then. Of course, decks that focus on flickering may have other tricks up their sleeves, but if they do not, he is exposed every time he or the creature he is bound to re-enters the battlefield (as he also loses the ability when his soulbound partner flickers).
Personally my deterrent for these guys so far as been Suture Priest and Blood Seeker , both of which have paid for themselves a number of times over for all the games they've kept Deadeye and Sylvan Prime at bay.
Magiclover318 says... #2
No I am glad they banned it, but also sad haha I just traded to use it in my deck but at least it isn't worth very much. I just was hoping to make good use of him.
February 3, 2014 6:02 p.m.