Jace, the Living Guildpact!
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on June 27, 2014, 12:04 a.m. by BoromirOfGondor
Finally, new Jace has been revealed! Check him out below:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/top-decks/ode-jace-2014-06-27
BoromirOfGondor says... #3
I only said "yes" because I wanted my thread to get on the front page. This guy SUCKS.
June 27, 2014 12:05 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #4
ThatBlueMage... Looks like we found our graveyard removal! Though it does kinda interfere with our wincon...
June 27, 2014 12:09 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #5
He's not... a Jace we're used to, but there's no denying he's a blue mage.
June 27, 2014 12:11 a.m.
Yeah, I really hate this jace to be honest. I thought he would be way more powerful...
June 27, 2014 12:15 a.m.
byepolarbear says... #9
I am sorely disappointed by this. Seriously. I love Jaces, I want to have at least 1 of every type but this may be the most useless PW in standard.
+1 digs 2 deep, you toss one in the GY giving your opponent an idea of what you don't want and then you place the card you do want on top... So it's a bad Scry 2 each turn.
-3 is sorcery speed bounce. Not even interesting bounce. I'd rather just have Cyclonic Rift .
-8... So you + him the turn he hits the field and 2 turns after that, then on the 4th turn he's been on the field you get to do absolutely nothing that has anything to do with the field, you lose any shiny cards you have in your hand and you draw 7.
Really? Am I missing something? This strikes me as a rotten piece of excrement.
June 27, 2014 12:17 a.m.
JakeHarlow says... #10
Unless there's some kind of Golgari-heavy BUG build that makes good use of it...I just don't see it.
At first glance, this blows. Utterly.
You'd think lore-wise that becoming Ravnica's Living Guildpact would make Jace STRONGER. This may well be the worst Jace ever.
June 27, 2014 12:21 a.m.
BoromirOfGondor says... #11
GoldGhost012: I don't see a situation where you would not rather have something else.
+1: I would rather be using a Jace, Architect of Thought -2. Post-rotation, I believe Kiora, the Crashing Wave is simply better.
-3: There are already enough bounce effects in the format, and -3 is not worth it. My opponent can just Lightning Strike it EOT, and at that point I have effectively paid UU2 for a Cyclonic Rift .
-8: No matter how hard I try, I don't think I will ever get him that far. He can't protect himself efficiently, as his only removal puts him down to 2 loyalty.
In conclusion, Jace could potentially be a decent sideboard card; however, he is too narrow to be played in current standard. Perhaps Khans will breath new life into this otherwise bland walker.
June 27, 2014 12:21 a.m.
BoromirOfGondor says... #12
JakeHarlow: I KNOW, RIGHT?!?!?!? This Jace is a complete flavor fail.
June 27, 2014 12:24 a.m.
I like him for the sole fact that I don't play Standard and the Time Spiral ultimate is fun in EDH.
In terms of Standard, he's rather lackluster, but not poop.
June 27, 2014 12:26 a.m.
The Doctor says... #14
So they messed up and made him Black/Blue IRL, right?
June 27, 2014 12:27 a.m.
JakeHarlow, that is the best... deck idea... ever! Ima accumulate 4 new jace and build that! XD
June 27, 2014 12:28 a.m.
Nigeltastic says... #17
His +1 is pretty reasonable in a 26-28 land control deck, lets you toss out extra lands you won't really be using... That said, he's not the best Jace, but I think calling him utter trash is a bit excessive.
June 27, 2014 12:32 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #18
+1: A worse Scry 2. Because Scry 2 every turn would be busted as hell.
-3: Bounce almost anything. Seems fine. Could be stronger, but still powerful.
-8: Immediately win the game. If Jace is at 8 loyalty then the board state is fine.
Yes, he's probably the worst Jace yet. But seriously, get over it. Jace has always been busted. Instead of busted, Wizards gave us strong. People were flame warring Jace, Architect of Thought
for weeks before control realized that his name was still Jace.
This guy will be sleeved as at least a 2-of into any blue control shell for as long as he's in Standard.
June 27, 2014 12:35 a.m.
JakeHarlow says... #19
Meh. I think as a land filterer in control, he might have a spot, and then as an emergency bouncer at sorcery speed. Probably has some relevance in Nekusar, the Mindrazer EDH builds. Or yard-focused BUG, as I mentioned before. The 5 starting loyalty is nice though.
Maybe I was a bit harsh in calling it trash. But I think he's the most niche Jace yet and probably the worst when considered in a vacuum.
June 27, 2014 12:39 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #20
I think people are just mad because he doesn't literally draw you cards anymore. His new purpose is to increase card quality, not card quantity. I'm glad that blue mages have to think when they make their decks now, because they won't be holding 11 cards at a time.
June 27, 2014 12:45 a.m.
I agree with NobodyPicksBulbasaur on this one. The +1 is actually pretty powerful considering he's 5 starting loyalty for four mana, taking him up to 6. He doesn't need to tick down right away.
The -3 is any nonland permanent, not just creatures. You can even do stuff like target your own Banishing Light . Moreover, it's relevant in the control mirror. Jace, Architect of Thought simply stalls Elspeth, Sun's Champion tokens. This new Jace straight-up bounces her so you can counter.
The ultimate just straight-up wins. You go back to 7 cards, your opponent loses their hand and graveyard. Seriously, it's better than Jace, the Mind Sculptor 's ult. You're doing nearly the same thing, and then drawing seven cards. Holy shit.
June 27, 2014 12:45 a.m.
WomboCombo says... #22
The -8 is nice because it forces your opponent in to top deck mode (only Jace's controller gets to draw seven new cards).
The first 2 abilities are a bit underwhelming though =\
June 27, 2014 12:46 a.m.
I think the fat loyalty helps redeem him. Really, if Khans has something like Flashback (or anything control can do with the gy) he'll get played a ton. Right now, he's eh. But that's in an unknown environment.
June 27, 2014 12:48 a.m.
This time, Jace is not a control tool. This is Tempo Jace, try Master of Waves and his buddies.
1.) Filter your draws. You proabably won't need those top lands after hitting four. That's especially useful if you can't rely on Thassa (Deicide ...)
2.) Bounce something. Get your army going, set the opponent back and then do it again.
3.) Refill your resources. Chances are high, your opponent will scoop, after you drew 7 new cards while having ten creatures on board.
This is a card for the mono blue mirrors. Don't underrestimate it, but don't run him in or against control decks either.
June 27, 2014 12:55 a.m.
He's worse than the other Jaces in a vacuum, at first glance. But he seems like a fine guy, to be honest. Helps topdecks suck slightly less, fills graveyards, can kind of re use ETBs (he's no Venser, the Sojourner or Deadeye Navigator , but he's alright), bounces problem permanents, and can set back opponent's plans several turns if he sticks around for a few turns (fewer turns, if you're playing with new Ajani as well). It takes a bit more of a niche build, but he's not terrible.
June 27, 2014 12:55 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #28
@BoromirOfGondor: You realize the front page displays all recent threads, right? We don't pick the most interesting threads and stick them up there.
June 27, 2014 1:11 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #29
I'm know I'm of the few that use Spite of Mogis but there's synergy here.
Kahns could have Threshold as an returning mechanic. Support for B/U Reanimator could be on the way. It's a common U/B deck in the DotP games and they are integrating the video game and paper game.
BUG was a serious deck in Block. What if control decks utilize these colors and the graveyard as a resource come rotation? Could happen.
Food for thought before completely writing him off.
June 27, 2014 1:20 a.m.
I'm actually a fan of this new jace. Lots of times we are in a predicament where we would rather draw something else or just something one turn earlier. And the bounce can help protect an already high loyalty count (although I wish that was -2 and not -3), but I'm a huge fan of that ultimate, get everything back from the yard and get a fresh 7 cards while the opponent is left handless, sounds good to me. For control atleast, and of course I'll be playing control
June 27, 2014 1:46 a.m.
Blizzicane says... #31
He seems fine nothing amazing but good he has a more loyalty counters than the average four drop walker so I think that is a plus. :3
June 27, 2014 1:54 a.m.
BoromirOfGondor says... #32
@Epochalyptik For whatever reason, it wasn't on the forums page when I posted it. It's a problem I've had before.
June 27, 2014 1:54 a.m.
The Doctor says... #33
sylvannos His ult doesn't even compare in power to Mind Sculptor's ult...
June 27, 2014 1:57 a.m.
BoromirOfGondor: it doesnt show your threads, it shows everyone elses.
June 27, 2014 1:57 a.m.
Hjaltrohir says... #35
IMO it isnt that good except for his ultimate which is like a Time Reversal but only you get to draw cards
June 27, 2014 2:01 a.m.
JakeHarlow says... #36
The more I think about it, the more I think he might be ok...
June 27, 2014 2:03 a.m.
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind + Rescue from the Underworld + Stormbreath Dragon + Duskmantle Seer and using this Jace to throw giant creatures into the graveyard. Makeshift grixis reanimator?
June 27, 2014 2:29 a.m.
I like how everyone is saying this is terrible, Yet everyone said Jace, Architect of Thought was terrible when it was being previewed. I think this guy is bonkers. He just doesn't have the right home yet, but he'll get there. And you all will be like "I thought Jace, the Living Guildpact was great all along! Yep, Total called it first!"
June 27, 2014 3:04 a.m.
notamardybum says... #39
His ult is pretty amazing. Talk about card asvamtage
June 27, 2014 6:37 a.m.
Enlightened_Jedi says... #40
Yeah I enjoy this Jace, granted he isn't AOT, I don't think he is trash.This one is just way more balanced it feels like
He is a fat 6 loyalty PW on turn 4 essentially. Pretty nice.
And his bounce effect will be more relevant I believe than most anticipate.
This guy will see play, definitely after rotation he will get stronger though.
Also that art man. Shew. Bada$$.
June 27, 2014 6:43 a.m.
He's probably the worst jace. However, he's still not terrible, which is kinda funny.
The -3 could probably get away with being a -2 just fine. Bounce is a solid ability, but it's a touch over-costed.
The +1 is... eh. In the current standard, just scry 2 would've been a lot better. If flashback or Snapcaster Mage were in standard, it would be a bit better, as that would reduce the overall potential risk of having to mill one of your top 2 cards. If it simply said "may" on the mill bit it would be a whole lot better.
The -8 is actually really nice. Timetwister except your opponent doesn't get a hand. In a control deck, you having 7 in hand and your opponent having none that late in the game is basically a win. It's nice that he has a high starting loyalty for this, too, but since his -3 protects him, rather than his +1 (like Kiora, the Crashing Wave ) it's still gonna be hard to get to.
Overall, his +1 lacks good synergy right now in standard, his only way of protecting himself costs too much, and while his ult is good, what competitive player ever uses a planeswalker just for their ult? He'll be ok against midrange and control, and coming in with 5 loyalty helps a bit, but unless weenie aggro and burn just die off post-rotation (and it doesn't look like they will) or they give blue something that makes your graveyard relevant (i.e. flashback) he's gonna be underwhelming.
June 27, 2014 6:43 a.m.
@The Doctor: Now that I think about it, you're probably right. This ult is way better than Jace, the Mind Sculptor . Drawing 7 cards > milling your opponent's library.
June 27, 2014 7:22 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #43
Well, I'm not sure he'd do well in an Esper build, but consider a Bant Midrange-Control shell for a moment... He really doesn't need to protect himself all too much. Sylvan Caryatid , Brimaz, King of Oreskos , and Courser of Kruphix both do a fine job, while the -3 will take care of other problem cards. And I just realized that all of the "wasted" cards from his +1 just get shuffled back with his ult, which happens to update the Elixir of Immortality plan to the extreme. So, not really that bad if you put some stuff around him. Maybe pillowfort?
June 27, 2014 7:32 a.m.
I think Jace's +1 is going to be a little under estimated...
A few cards/situations I think it will go well with (for Standard):
- Any Scry
- Getting specific cards to top of you deck (Setting up Courser of Kruphix
, Keranos, God of Storms
or other effect)
- Reducing land draws late game.
- Getting specific cards to your graveyard (Souls...?, reanimate...?)- Getting rid of cards from the top of library. (Prevent Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
, Nightveil Specter
or Daxos of Meletis
from letting your opponent play them.)
Not sure just how effective any of this will be, or if it's enough to make it see play... but they are options.
The -3... well I agree, this should have only been -2... but I don't think it is meant to be used regularly. It's more of an "emergency option"... but could also be used to return your own cards with ETB's (not that it's a worth-while method... but again, an option)
The -8. - This is lack-luster compared to other Ultimates, but really getting 7 new cards and having your opponent on top-deck should win you the game (unless your board state was horrible, in which case, you are dead anyway.)
Thankfully.... combined with the New Ajani, he can Ultimate the turn after you cast him. :)
June 27, 2014 8:02 a.m.
He feels both like the worst jace and not as bad as he looks. Irrelevant outside of standard and maybe some edh.
June 27, 2014 8:02 a.m.
Modern dredge found a new friend. Plus... there's no telling what kind of mechanics that are in the new set that make him good. He and Deathrite Shaman will be together in standard for a short time too. He's brewable.
June 27, 2014 9:34 a.m.
Just becayse jace will find a home doesnt mean he should or that it will be a good deck hell even chandra found a home but shes still not good this jace is bad and when hes released he will be bought out and never go up
BoromirOfGondor says... #2
YES!!!
June 27, 2014 12:04 a.m.