I'd recommend running a bit more burn spells or cards dealing non-combat damage to get an easier time getting rid of other commanders.

Yeah I had contemplated that as well, or at least keeping them out of Ult range for a turn or two.

Also kudos for reading the description, I was anticipating the first comments to be variants on calling me a newb and saying planeswalkers can't be a commander lol

Soo, as I always do I come back to decks I've previously commented on because I like suggesting cards. I think I have urge to feel validated as a competent magic player by suggesting lots of thing.

First of all, you really do need Dack Fayden . Just his -2 ability is worth it. There are plenty of good artifacts lying on the board and 3 CMC to gain control of the Avacyn Phyrexian Metamorph is worth it. Yes it happens a lot more often that you'd imagine.

Having mentioned Phyrexian Metamorph you should also add him. You have plenty of good artifact worth copying.

Seeing you run a lot of planeswalker you might as well take full advantage of proliferate.

Fuel for the Cause to replace some counter spell.

Spread the Sickness is probably a bit too slow to actually be effective but I'll mention it at least.

Tezzeret's Gambit , with the phyrexian mana this card is pretty beast if you ask me. It's a colorless Sign in Blood with cost you one more mana for the added effect of proliferating.

Volt Charge , killing your opponents commander while strengthening your own commander, yes please!

I'd replace Underworld Connections with Phyrexian Arena

Throw in a Crosis's Charm for both flavour and some more versatile removal.

I'd also recommend some mass removal. I assume some of your friends is playing Elsbeth and most of your sac spells won't do much against her tokens.

Decree of Pain , Blasphemous Act , and Damnation are all good choices.

Otherwise there's my regular non-green mana ramp cards that I recommend to everyone, Burnished Hart , Wayfarer's Bauble and Expedition Map

Replacing Mirrodin's Core with a Bojuka Bog would be an improvement. Exiling graveyards is a legit thing in commander.

Rakdos Charm is worth considering if your playgroup is heavy on tokens.

Black Market is a card you could easily benefit from and it allows you to play with more mana. Thought I've often experienced it being removed quickly from the battlefield because people really don't like it.

Spiteful Visions is a better option to Dictate of Kruphix since it's dealing non-combat damage it allows you to keep your opponents commanders in check.

Having some spot removal doesn't hurt at all Terminate is better than Murder and Devour Flesh

I've also noticed a recurring them of making your opponents saccing, so let me help you with that

Tainted AEther , pretty beast in keeping your opponents in check.

No Mercy not exactly sacrifice, but it does the same trick

Think that should cover most of it. Good luck with the format!

I'm glad you came back to make some suggestions, and you're right, I'm going to need more board wipes to compete with token generation depending on what Commanders come up to bat.

I agree with most of your suggestions, and in many cases I'd looked at some of those cards but if I didn't own them and they weren't available or were out of my price range, I hadn't added them.

The proliferate suggestions are by far the best, seeing as Lord Bolas is how I want to win in many cases, and I started playing far after Proliferate was already out of rotation.

Thanks for your time and consideration, it's greatly appreciated!

For future thoughts. If you see that you have enough proliferate effect to effectively increase counters, you could add Everflowing Chalice and Astral Cornucopia . Pretty good mana rocks combined with proliferate effects.

Feel free to contact me if you ever need help with your commander decks. If it's one thing I enjoy it is brewing with commander decks

Wow, this is pretty cool. I like where this is going. My friends and I have talked about PW's as commanders but never actually got to doing it. And with the new Teferi as a commander, this may actually become a legitimate format that people could start playing.

Ulvhedner already made some great suggestions, haha.

I'd suggest a Fabricate so you can bring out Chain Veil faster. You could also add in Everflowing Chalice (with 4 counters on it) + Tezzeret the Seeker + another PW whose abilities you wanna use infinitely. :D

+1 from me.

One more thing: Rings of Brighthearth .

Thanks for the input! And yeah, everyone I talk to at our local shop is pretty keyed up on the idea of this as a format.

On top of card suggestion, I'd love ban list suggestions. We were torn to ban Karn, because he's the only colorless commander, but he'd be too easy to accelerate into, then would just blow everyone away.

Not sure why you have Karn banned, it gets rid of the only colorless commander.

And why only 5 max triggers? Infinite combos should be allowed, if you don't like them then adapt.

Karn is banned mainly because he can be accelerated into on turn 2, then control the bored and win the game. I'm just listing what my small group playing have decided.

Again, I'm just listing what our little meta decided. We decided on a cap for a few reasons; first discouraging the proxy of cards, why? Because losing to proxies is annoying as swamp balls. Second, endless combos such as Strip Mine + Crucible of Worlds are, as previously stated, annoying as nappy nuts. I love seeing other peoples decks work, but dying to well known, over played combos doesn't make us want to adapt, it makes us not want to play against that person or focus them out of the game early.

I'm not a wizards of the coast employee, I'm just sharing what myself and a group of friends are doing, and will most likely do a few match write ups once we're all up and running. Maybe someone will make a Karn list at some point and it won't be as bad as we expect, we'll see.

Have to agree with NateJH. Infinite combos are actually easy to get rid of by destroying/bouncing/tucking/etc key parts. Limiting only to 5 triggers will tend to lead people to using PW's whose abilities is the most abuseable or powerful (e.g. Nicol Bolas) and there won't be any diversity, just a bunch of Bolas decks walking around; while allowing infinite combos will allow people to utilize said infinite combos on ALL possible planeswalkers. Just a thought though. Besides, infinite combos that are creature-based (which are all also susceptible to removal, you just gotta pack the removal) are a lot scarier than PW's.

Just read your response to NateJH, so I guess I could understand that. Haha.

I'm on NateJH side here on the infinite combos here. Infinite combos in commander disgust me and is a tasteless way to win along with all other cheesy "you win the game if" cards. People who play with inf combos tends to build their decks around getting that one combo to work without anyone disrupting and kills the diversity in gameplay that is encouraged in Commander.

I want to add NateJH I'm not dismissing your opinion, like I mentioned none of the 5 people making these decks is interested in Karn, but one day it might make sense to have him around.

And you guys are right, I'm planning on running enough removal that combos shouldn't scare me all that much, maybe we should just ban proxies?

Lastly, thank all of you for coming in and taking time to discuss this. I'd love to see this become a fun casual play style that people will enjoy, and with the more input we get, the better this will turn out.

For some reason I wrote in the wrong user in my previous post, I meant to mention Monoxidechild

haha yeah I was a little confused.

Infinite combos are fine if it can't set off before anyone has a chance to respond, such as early game.

If by mid- to late-game someone combo's out, then next game, pay attention to that combo so you can remove pieces accordingly. Literally EVERYONE in the shop where I go to runs infinite combos in their EDH decks, but no one is able to consistently pull them off for the simple fact that every single deck packs a healthy amount of removal. Everyone keeps everyone else in check. And if you leave any one player alone, then it's your fault for letting that happen if that same player combo'd out of nowhere. So after that happens, you move on and start a new game. Plain and simple.

Obviously, if no one uses removal or only one or two players do, each and every single infinite combo will consistently happen.

I've noticed that lots of EDH players forget the fact that almost each and every single infinite combo can be responded to in its FIRST ITERATION and you can stop it from continuing.. As long as you put in the proper removal in your deck. Even before the first iteration starts, it's your job as a player to figure out key combo pieces and remove them before the combo can happen. If everyone packs in removal, infinite combos have a harder time to pull off but if those combos do happen, man is it sweet, even if I'm the one it's being used against. I also noticed even with the existence of infinite combos, games can get draggy and long and not seeing an explosive way to end the game gets pretty boring. Combo-ing out with infinite combos isn't the problem; it's the lack of removal.

Also, yes. You should ban proxies unless that person is simply playtesting the proxy and is planning to get the card in the near future (I proxy a Mycosynth Lattice in my Derevi deck with permission from the people I play with every new game, but I'm actively trying to find out and actually have one coming in). If someone's using a proxy simply for its power and he/she can't even afford it, then why not EVERYONE run Mana Crypt . Lol. I'd like to think that one's deck is reflective of the person that created it. That includes the financial aspect of it. If someone can fill a deck with good $100 cards and they're actual cards, then go for it. Otherwise, the proxy better be temporary for playtesting only. Just my opinion.

This seems like an interesting concept. However, Garruk, Apex Predator might be too overpowered in this metagame.

As for suggestions, Liliana Vess is a tutor that you can use over and over. Melek, Izzet Paragon is great with sorcery and instants, as are Hypersonic Dragon , Goblin Electromancer , and Guttersnipe . Also, Bump in the Night is a black Lightning Bolt . Blasphemous Act seems unnecessary since you have all of two creatures, and they're both gods.

We've been discussing it Garruk, Apex Predator for a ban mainly due to his colors making available a lot of ramp an can handle creatures and planeswalkers. Being 7 to cast though, and not that mch better or worse than Lord Bolas, he seems okay to stay.

I don't have access to a Liliana at the moment and my theme is running a long a zero creature line (Gods are more than creatures, shush lol) so I'll be avoiding them in the list if I can help it.

Just an idea. Maybe for balance (but idk how this would actually play out). Planeswalkers can't target Commander planeswalker that aren't on their side of the field, but they can target any PW on the field as long as it came from the 99-card deck. Effects like Karn, BG Garruk, and Nicol Bolas are OP to be able to easily get rid of other commanders for the simple fact that they are easily accessible and don't need to be searched through the deck.

So for example, if you want your PW commander to kill another commander, you'd have to take control of it first. But then again, why bother doing that when you can just use direct or mass removal that includes PW's.

Sorin, Lord of Innistrad would also have to be examined under critical examination, just to point out the whole PW control thing. The meta seems to imply heavy PW abuse, so he could potentially nab 3 fellers in one swing, then use all three in the same turn. If there's going to be a ban list, I'd say look at him.

The thing about Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is he has to make it to his alt in order to nab another Commander, but in my book he's less broken than Olivia who can start stealing commanders right off the bat. I think with player politics in action, he'd be hard pressed to actually get his ultimate off. If someone goes this route though he may prove brutal, I'll have some play throughs up soon.

Olivia Voldaren can't affect planeswalkers unless if they are creatures. So unless if his opponent is running Gideon, his commander is safe.

Sorry that wasn't clear, I meant in regular EDH Olivia Voldaren can still other players commanders, so Sorin, Lord of Innistrad isn't necessarily unique nor broken.