Remember when no one played Jace?
General forum
Posted on March 8, 2016, 6:51 a.m. by capriom85
No, I don't mean Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip. I'm talking about Jace, the Living Guildpact. I can't remember seeing his name grace any top 8 lists for his run through standard. I know for a fact no one played him at my LGS. I would have tried, but I wasn't playing blue at that moment. Why wasn't he played? He is actually a decent PW when looking at him. I don't remember what was going on in Standard then so there may have been decks that just didn't want him at the top. He sets up draws, bounces threats, and then packs Wit's End, draw seven, and Elixir of Immortality into one ability. Seems playable in Standard.
He ran ok for me as just after he was printed, I was still playing good ol' Master of Waves. I threw 2 copies of him into the deck and the +1 was really good for me. Mainly because what the deck mostly did was Scry all the time using Thassa, God of the Sea, Omenspeaker and Sigiled Starfish and draw cards using Bident of Thassa and creatures like Vaporkin and Triton Shorestalker. So in that deck, he wasn't too bad; but I can easily say he's probably one of, if not the worst Jace we've ever seen (Jace Beleren I don't like much either, but in EDH he sees a lot of play).
March 8, 2016 7:05 a.m.
Draw 7 while you're opponent loses their whole hand isn't card advantage? Bouncing a creature off the board state can also waste a turn for an opponent, so that is semi-advantage as well if Time Walks your opponent. Setting up your draws still seems good, though.
March 8, 2016 7:20 a.m.
ninjaclevs13 says... #5
Except you won't be able to ultimate him until like turn 8-9. Card advantage is useless when you are dead.
March 8, 2016 7:34 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #6
Planeswalker ultimates aren't realistic. His - is OK but the + does nothing and so the card is overall severely underwhelming.
March 8, 2016 7:48 a.m.
The answer to this sort of thing is usually "Because the alternatives were better". If you want it for the library manipulation, Thassa, God of the Sea does the job way better, costs less, is harder to remove and applies pressure to the opponent too. The other thing he seems suited to is filling up your graveyard but the 
deck graveyard of the time was Sidisi Whip, which had both Sidisi, Brood Tyrant and Whip of Erebos at the 4-drop spot, which are vastly more useful to the strategy than Jace would be.
March 8, 2016 7:58 a.m. Edited.
AndWelcomeToTheJam says... #8
Let's look at the other Jaces.
Jace Beleren is just a card fountain, and a decent one at that, because its relevancy is low. If all opponents gain cards while he's out, they're less likely to feel the need to remove him. Or you can pay three mana for you alone to draw an extra card each turn for three turns. Not fantastic, but not horrible either for a 3-drop walker. His ultimate is fairly meh, as there are other better ways to mill (see Memory Adept below).
Jace, the Mind Sculptor should be obvious by now, as well as Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip. I won't take the time to explain apart from Brainstorm on a stick and pseudo-Snapcaster Mage, respectively.
Jace, Memory Adept is your go-to walker for mill. If you've really got a need for a card draw that you've set up previously, you can +1. The -7 is a sort-of mill finisher, but not really worth taking the extra 4 turns to set up. But the second ability is where the money is; a repeatable Glimpse the Unthinkable is backbreaking with the proper setup (say, Undead Alchemist or Keening Stone).
Jace, Architect of Thought was, and still sort of is, a decent walker for control shells. Even though it's usually considered one of the lesser Jaces in terms of impactfulness, it's naturally one of the most defensive. His best ability is his -2, similar to Fact or Fiction with the same CMC, but can be repeatable. This is actually really nice, because most walker abilites can be traced back to cards with the same effect, but these cards most often cost less. His +1 is also useful, a Dampening Pulse until your next turn, hindering aggressive decks significantly. If you can get there, his ultimate is actually kinda cool, taking out a cornerstone/finisher, but mainly utilized in EDH play. His other two abilities are usually worth more to invest in though.
So we can start to see a running theme for Jace as a walker. Jace's ultimates are usually not worth the effort/time to get to, but his other abilities make up for it with power/advantage in some way. Then we get to Jace, the Living Guildpact. At this time we started to see the return of multicolored reanimator stuff in Sultai, but this +1 is just not good when you compare it with other cards that did more for less, like Taigam's Scheming or Satyr Wayfinder. His second ability is just garbage. Bouncing some permanent is okay, but you're paying 4 mana and putting your high-value walker from 5 loyalty down to 2 just to play a Disperse. You can't even repeat it until after two turns. JTMS could effectively do this for the same mana cost, three times in a row, if you really needed it to. Then his ultimate is a 4 mana, 4+ turn investment, to play 3/4 of a Day's Undoing. Cards to properly refill your hand, like Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time, came out right after this. And, if you were playing reanimator like I mentioned before to get the maximum value out of the +1, then you just undid all the setup you had for the past 3 turns. They probably could have just reprinted Memory Adept for the 4th core set in a row and still have it be more viable than LGP.
March 8, 2016 8:47 a.m.
KillDatBUG says... #9
Because Jace, the Living Guildpact is hot garbage. His plus ability sucks, his minus ability honestly isn't that good, and he's not worth it for his ultimate. Doesn't matter if he's 4 mana if he doesn't do anything. See Narset Transcendent as a more recent example.
March 8, 2016 10:57 a.m. Edited.
Before the dragons took over control, I used him in a U/W control list with Myth Realized and Pearl Lake Ancient and Resolute Archangel. I'd tie him in along with Narset Transcendent and Elspeth, Sun's Champion. It was actually a sweet list and his -3 was actually really effective against the early days Abzan midrange list. Bouncing their Siege Rhino just to have them play it again and countering it was actually a wonderful technique. I won numerous games with the list. I'm sad it's gone. Jace, the Living Guildpact was severely underrated simply because he wasn't what people expected from a Jace. Used appropriately he did his job just fine.
March 8, 2016 11:57 a.m.
ninjaclevs13 says... #11
KillDatBUG- are you saying Narset Transcendent is useless? Because I may have to get angry if so haha
March 8, 2016 noon
KillDatBUG has clearly never experienced the joy of ult-ing Narset against a control player.
The thing I like about TLGP is the fact that his +1 is a cohesive buildup to his ultimate. A lot of the cards you're pitching can be just thrown back in your library again later if you keep him to ult. Not to mention it provides fuel for Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise. He's 4 mana 5 loyalty walker with decent and typical abilities. That does not make him bad or "hot garbage." He had great synergy with Narset Transcendent's +1 too.
March 8, 2016 12:45 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #13
The thing is that plus-ing two walkers that cost a total of 8 mana for a worse catalog is bad. Even if it is repeatable.
March 8, 2016 4:45 p.m.
A guy threw him at me during a trade, and I haven't been able to get rid of him. Tried online too, only response was someone telling me to burn it....
Worst Jace ever!
March 8, 2016 9:15 p.m.
AndWelcomeToTheJam says... #16
Saying that LGP's +1 is good with Narset's +1 is valid, but using that as a reason to play the Jace is saying you're okay with paying 8 mana to play a Sleight of Hand that doesn't hit creatures or lands.
March 9, 2016 7:06 a.m.
I agree there and didn't realize there were better options at the time for the slot Jace filled. That's basically why I asked the question because I pulled one the other day in a "prize pack" and was like, I would have played this.
Jace wasn't printed in the right meta to play him. Oh well...can't be the 4 of poster boy every time.
GlistenerAgent says... #2
Doesn't produce card advantage.
March 8, 2016 6:59 a.m.