Jeskai?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on July 30, 2015, 5:44 p.m. by JohnnyBaggins
Jeskai is my favourite colour combination by far. With the spoiling of the Jeskai Monks, these colours finally got the flavor I always wanted it to have. Now the question for me is how to incorporate it into Commander? It's pretty straight forward burn-aggro for my highlander list, but transferring this to commander is impossible. Where Lighting Bolt and Mantis Rider are nothing short of game breakers in highlander, anything that defines the Jeskai way is utterly useless in commander. So where to go?
Narset is an obvious choice for a control-style deck, but I'm not 100% convinced ill enjoy playing UWR control in commander. Not that I play to win. Yes, I want to have fun, but 0-3 evenings or going out first is something I hate a lot. What options are there? Is Shu-Yun good enough, can he do the trick? Possibly as an unblockable-commander-damange-voltron-option? What others are there? That "control/own"-goat guy? Is he good? Am I overlooking something?
any experiences and opinions would be greatly appreciated!
Narset is often played both as a quasi-combo deck or as walker-control. The planeswalker variant is more common in 1v1 formats. As far as competitive commanders goes, she's pretty meh. If anyone wants, I can go into this in full detail.
July 30, 2015 6:12 p.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #4
I'd be very grateful if you did. I want to play competetive commander, 1v1 as well as multiplayer, and I want to play Jeskai so anything in terms of information is good to hear. I dont need to play narset, Zedruu, Numot or Ruhan (I assume Ruhan can carry his weight in 1v1?) Would be absolutely fine too. Thanks!
July 30, 2015 6:29 p.m.
There are 5 jeskai legendary creatures: Narset, Enlightened Master, Numot, the Devastator, Ruhan of the Fomori, Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest and Zedruu the Greathearted.
July 30, 2015 6:46 p.m.
Those are the only ones. I'm a big fan of Zedruu, Ruhan and Shu Yun for fun, competitive edh. I don't like Narset that much and while Numot is good there is not much to build around on him. And Fluffy is correct Narset is usually a combo commander.
July 30, 2015 6:49 p.m.
Alright, so as I said, there's essentially 2 variants. The first is the quasi-combo one. It's usually preferred in multiplayer formats as it has more game-ending power. The basic premise is to use top-deck manipulation (something like Personal Tutor, Scroll Rack, Sensei's Divining Top, Mystical Tutor) to set up big spells like Time Stretch. The idea is that getting even a single attack off is often enough to put you into a position where you're so far ahead on board that your opponents will have a hard time coming back. Just imagine having just resolved a Cataclysm while playing her, for example. These aren't true combos (with the exception of Omniscience+Enter the Infinite which I'm not a big fan of) but they essentially end the game. Add in your standard dash of artifact ramp and control and you've got yourself a deck.
Here's a pretty stereotypical example Narset, Enlightened Master
However, the problem with this deck is that it is incredibly reliant on Narset's ability. Cards like Omniscience do very little for you if they just sit in your hand. Card for card, you're essentially playing less valuable cards than your opponents in most cases. The big spells in your deck are just that - big. They're unwieldy and actually paying the mana costs for these spells isn't a feasible way to win in competitive groups. If Narset's also dealt with, you're left without much to do. In EDH, it's generally not the best idea to include cards in your deck that aren't worthwhile if you draw into them in the absence of your commander.
The second variant is walker control and is usually preferred in 1v1. This one solves the problem I mentioned above in that even costly walkers like Elspeth, Sun's Champion are much easier to cast than Beacon of Tomorrows. It's pretty much no secret that walkers provide some great incremental advantages, often demand timely answers, and can threaten powerful ultimates.
That's where the bulk of the deck's power lies. You run something like 5 to 13 planeswalkers alongside efficient control. This gives you a much tighter mana curve, a deck's that's far less reliant on its commander, and multiple ways to threaten to win the game.
The problem with walkers in EDH is that they're slow. Oftentimes, your Venser, the Sojourner ticking up will do a little something here, a little something there, and then get shot down as you approach ult range. It's far more predictable than tossing out a entwined Tooth and Nail into something like Palinchron and Deadeye Navigator. Also, walkers function far better 1v1 than in multiplayer. The 1 solier token you get from Elspeth, Knight-Errant a turn isn't that impactful vs 3 players, but it can fog the best attacker of 1 player repeatedly.
If you want examples of this archetype, head over to MTGtop8 and look for Narset lists.
July 30, 2015 7:03 p.m. Edited.
JohnnyBaggins says... #8
Hm, it really doesn't seem all that appealing to me, to be honest. I just don't like the thought of having some of that stuff on my hand. Sure, with cards like Dream Cache, Brainstorm and similar tricks, it's not too hard to get the annoyingly bulky cards back into my deck, but still - not a fan.
Numot seems decent but not really why I want to play commander which is, after all, the element of having a commander. If my commander is just a dude that attacks like normal, I won't be entertained. Well, Jeskai, why do you have to make it so difficult for me to play commander with you?
July 30, 2015 7:40 p.m.
I have a Narset, Enlightened Master deck and it's fun. You can make your deck unique and still be competitive.
One that no one has mentioned is Sword of Feast and Famine + Aggravated Assault type effects for her. Also solid pillow fort options, tutor options, and wrath in jeskai colors
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest would be my second choice I guess, but he feels more casual. I won't deny that all 5 legends pose separate challenges and can be evil if built right. Don't give up!
July 30, 2015 8:03 p.m.
How about playing U/W? It's got much of the same jeskai feel and some of the best generals available. Geist of Saint Traft offers a similar feel than narset. Brago is one of the best mana denial / lockdown commanders available (I run him), Grand Arbiter Augustin IV needs no introduction, etc. In all honesty, red is easily the weakest of the 5 colors in EDH. Like you said, straight up aggro and burn don't work vs 40 health.
Shu Yun is far better in Tiny Leaders than he is in EDH. I run the best Shu deck I've seen in the format and I just don't him doing all that well in EDH.
July 30, 2015 8:09 p.m. Edited.
JohnnyBaggins says... #11
I run Shu Yun in TL, too. I looked at your deck and apart from some choices as to a slightly different creature count and some few spells we run very similar lists. Find mine here: The Silence before the Tempest in case you care.
I'm just an all-in Jeskai fan. I'd just love to have Jeskai for my EDH, too. I tried and play a lot, I tried Arbiter and I tried Ojutai Voltron, I tried pretty much anything there was to get in UW that seemed interesting, but none really made the cut for me. I mean, yes, no question, Arbiter is fun to play, and he's competitive as hell (actually Arbiter made me realize how important it is for me to win games) but I just want to try and make Jeskai work. It has to! It's been very good to me in standard and TL, it's amazing in Highlander and I just want it to work in Commander :D
July 30, 2015 9 p.m.
slovakattack says... #12
Just for the record, Narset is seen as fairly degenerate, at least by most people that I know. She's no Arcum Dagsson, but do be prepared to get a lot of hate for playing her. She's very similar to Kaalia in that regard, but you know... better.
July 30, 2015 9:10 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #13
Mmmmm.... Dagsson. Mycosynth Lattice + Darksteel Forge + Nevinyrral's Disk.
July 30, 2015 9:13 p.m.
Oh yeah, Narset gets a ton of hate at low to mid levels of play. At very high levels, she tends to not get as much hate since almost all generals or at least the 99 cards in decks tend to be very good. It's easy to see why someone cheating in multiple permanents every turn could be annoying. Add hexproof on top of that and you've got yourself a steaming pile of hate.
I'm lucky enough to play in a group that lets me get away with almost anything. A big thing is that stax still gets hated on becasue of how unineractive and slow it tends to be. Not to mention how many triggers have to be resolved upon upkeeps and such. There's really not much that gets hated on in my group. Well, I guess the green players have this universal hatred for Cyclonic Rift, but ya know...
I mean, if you just want to play Jeskai for the sake of playing Jeskai, play Narset. Just make it a goodstuff deck. People in mid-level commander have this deep seethed mistrust of goodstuff for some reason. If all the cards you play are individually high on value, that gives you the opportunity to push for a win on a number of avenues. Just have high-efficiency creatures like Linvala, Keeper of Silence, efficient removal like Swords to Plowshares, some decent artifact ramp, general reactive spells, a splash of tutors, and whatever else you want.
Narset doesn't have to be pigeonholed into those two strategies exclusively. She's still a decent commander even if you're mostly using her for the color identity. I actually did that with Sedris, the Traitor King. I don't really care for the Grixis legends but I love the identity. The deck became loot-to-self-mill sort of reanimate deck with a heavy emphasis on a redundant splinter twin combo. I practically never use Sedris. Sometimes I'll throw him out there so I can flash in Pestermite. If it gets countered, just unearth and go for it again. Mostly just grixis control. The whole deck feels surprisingly a lot like Grixis Control in modern at the moment. Just do what you want with Narset. That, or abandon Jeskai in search of a more competitive identity and commander.
fluffybunnypants says... #2
I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that competitive Narset is actually a combo deck. slovakattack or Ohthenoises?
July 30, 2015 5:58 p.m.