infinite mana....nothing to do with it o.O

Admittedly, you do need a sac outlet to be able to re-cast Maelstrom Wanderer an infinite number of times (and therefore cast your entire deck onto the field), but I think having 9 different outlets provides a good chance of finding one when you want it. You can even use it to power Etherium-Horn Sorcerer , Sphinx of Magosi , or Clockwork Dragon (and, hey! They have haste, right?). I kind of also want to keep Comet Storm just to have answers to creatures (yeah, this deck focuses on being answered instead of running answers), but cascading into a Comet Storm is always an annoying experience.

you should probably add X effect cards in order to get more out of your mana combos

The Comprehensive Rules define a mana ability as either...

605.1a An activated ability without a target that could put mana into a players mana pool when it resolves is a mana ability.

605.1b A triggered ability without a target that triggers from activating a mana ability and could put mana into a players mana pool when it resolves is a mana ability.

Just saying that Rings of brighthearth can't copy your monolith

Otherwise though very nice deck. I would add some x cost cards though so that you plenty of other win conditions. I mean wouldn't you love to comet storm an edh game and kill every player with a single spell? Or genesis wave for that matter which will pull out your whole deck without having to cast your general over and over.

Hmmm.... I guess that combo doesn't work; thanks for the catch. I'll have to rethink that.

And I have thought about the X-cost spells. I did run Comet Storm and Genesis Wave at first, but I found a few issues with having them in the deck:

1) Cascading into them with Maelstrom Wanderer is frustrating. You can't pay their X cost, so they will always waste one of your cascades if you hit them.

2) They have to be in hand the turn that you get infinite mana to be effective. Unlike the sac outlets, you can't play them a few turns earlier and then get infinite mana to instantly win; this leaves them more vulnerable to counterspells and decks that are focused on making you discard. You also can't get infinite mana and then cascade into them (yes, this is that annoying).

With that said, I realize the potential benefits:

1) They work without requiring my general. If he gets tucked with Spell Crumple or Proteus Staff , they ensure I can still win. The fact is, though, I will always have my general. I can play the game so that I ensure I only play Maelstrom Wanderer after I have a sac outlet for him on the field. With the outlet, I can just sac Maelstrom Wanderer in response to whatever one of the 15 tucks (like Bant Charm ) targets him. The only tuck that works fast enough is Spell Crumple , to which I say always call elemental on Cavern of Souls .

2) They're still effective even without infinite mana. Admittedly, they do tend to do more without infinite mana than my sac outlets do, but not enough so that they outweigh the 2 down-sides. Especially since the sac outlets for the most part do accomplish things before you get the infinite mana: card:Ashnod's Altar/Phyrexian Altar /Spawning Pit help power infinite mana combos; Shivan Harvest and Goblin Bombardment give you ways to deal with things your opponent is doing; Claws of Gix is Trinket Mage able (this is important); Greater Good allows you through go through your deck faster to find combo pieces; Perilous Forays ramps (also important). These are helped by the fact that they can be done instant-speed at end of their turn or in response to kill spells/creature board wipes. Altar of Dementia is the only one I'm uncertain about, but I like the fact that it enables a mill win-con (after you cascaded your deck onto the field).

tl;dr: I love my general, he's the only win-con necessary.

cards like sigarda shut your deck down completely then

i mean angel of jubilation

You mean just Angel of Jubilation ? I don't think there is any other card similar to it? If someone happens to play it (or some unknown card that is similar), I should kill it: Chandra Nalaar , Triskelion , Contagion Engine . In fact, even Capsize deals with it long enough to get around its restriction. Then there's always the chance of getting Clockwork Dragon or Sphinx of Magosi and pumping the infinite mana into them/ keep swinging with my general (with its 7 power thats most likely hasting out on turn 5) at the opponent.

A bigger worry that I have is playing against a control player who methodically counters the best cards in my infinite mana combos.Cutting off the mana to cast my general more than once is a serious problem, and its actually likely to happen. Then there's the luck factor of not finding a combo in time (especially against something like a Kaalia of the Vast deck).

why is there no Deadeye Navigator i can pull off an infinite turn combo using Deadeye Navigator , Peregrine Drake , Time Warp and Mnemonic Wall

4 card combo that only works by itself and nothing else in the EDH deck...doesn't seem worth it. just using tamiyo and time warp is enough

I made this same comment about rings to someone else and what he said is that rings is used with mana vault and basat monolith. you tap both for three, then pay three to untap basalt monolith, pay two to copy that ability and untap mana vault and then repeat.

Oh, so that turn one win does work. Awesome. I knew there was a way to get infinite mana with rings and basalt monolith. I had forgotten that you could use it to untap other artifacts.

I would totally run Deadeye Navigator if it triggered my general, but without that or more combos with him, he's not worth it.

I've also thought more about Comet Storm : It's a creature answer that my deck is missing. The versatility and responsiveness it provides makes it worth the occasional bad cascade, I think.

maybe Charmbreaker Devils? with so few instants and sorceries you're bound to get something good at least and recover from bad cascades

maybe Charmbreaker Devils? with so few instants and sorceries you're bound to get something good at least and recover from bad cascades

maybe Charmbreaker Devils? with so few instants and sorceries you're bound to get something good at least and recover from bad cascades

oh dear...I'm sorry for the spam comments...worthless internet connection

I can't cascade into Insurrection , so there are currently only 5 targets in my deck for Charmbreaker Devils : Comet Storm , Capsize , Word of Seizing , Rite of Replication , and Fabricate .

Coincidentally, the first four are the most responsive cards in the deck, and the last one is the best tutor. This does make it rather tempting, but this would dedicate another slot to being reactive, where the focus of the deck is to be proactive. I think I have enough answers after the re-addition of Comet Storm and can instead focus on finding as many infinite mana engines as possible.

i'd suggest getting rid of word of seizing since the other cards either help you build your combo or can bring huge result to the table since you're often able to make so much mana

I agree. I recently came across Overabundance . I think this card has a lot of potential, so I'll try that out instead.

well its the same as mana flare, except that it hurts you in addition and requires a secondary color, so it would be easier to pull out due to only needing a single red mana and 2 colorless

I've actually been considering Mana Flare for a while now, but I never liked how much it can help the opponent. The extra green required shouldn't be an issue (this deck is tri-color to begin with), and I I feel like the damage done by Overabundance helps me a lot more. Playtesting should reveal whether this works.

well they both help opponents, most people won't mind the one damage from overabundance, but mana flare helps mitigate some of the aggro your deck might draw during a game since EDH is a 4 player format

The little playtesting I've been able to do in 4-player has never had me drawing any aggro from the other players. This deck just sort of chills in the background until it combos off. Unfortunately, it often combo'ed a little too late. Another mana doubler will help with comboing faster, and the damage on Overabundance just helps keep an opponent from abusing it too much.

I played a good amount with this deck this past weekend, and I found that Overabundance just helps the opponent too much. Good opponents will just take the life-loss and run away with the game before I even untap. We're going with Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger now.

vorinclex is a good choice, also since you bring praetor's, you might want to try out jin-gitaxius since he gives you draw to help bring out your combo