i think that both ezuri's should stay tier 2.

If your demoting Ezuri, Claw of Progress, then it would be somewhat ridiculous to keep Ezuri, Renegade Leader in tier 2.

I don't know about the rest of you but with everyone spamming change suggestions and suggestion refutations I think we need a more organized and simple system to make it easier to know what the majority of this community wants changed. After all, isn't this supposed to be a democratic list? I recently suggested a voting system which only 1 person responded to that I feel can solve what I think is a problem with this list.

I'd leave Uril in T2. I've been on the fence about Bruna, but having piloted her, a version that's naturally difficult to interact with seems fantastic.

Ezuri, Claw of Progress also seems like he should stay in T2, he has an infinite turns combo that's tutor-able, and an infect backup strategy that is surprisingly fast.

Everyone always gets hung up on the tribal aspect of Reaper King. I don't think that's the best way to play him anyway. Just drop him and follow him up with a Rite of Replication or Blade of Selves, you'll blow up half the board. I haven't seen an optimized list either, but I think one that favored that as plan A would probably be T2 worthy.

On the topic of Reaper King. You don't build your deck even remotely around him.

You build a generic competetive combo deck that also happens to run Rite of Replication or Conspiracy for an alternate win.

As for the Ezuri's, I think they both deserve T2, but I don't know much about these decks.

About the new card:

This is easily Tier 2, right? If not Tier 1. It's like the dream stax commander. And it's a frog.

I'm not sure.

He's fantastic with Crucible of Worlds and fetchlands, but without crucible are you really going to have enough lands in hand to keep him from cutting into your mana base or killing himself? You could up the land count, but then you're buying a card advantage engine by decreasing the benefit you get from that card advantage engine, which isn't a great play.

He could be T2, but I'm going to reserve judgement until someone comes out with a working decklist.

Oh, and for the new commanders my estimation is as such:

Archangel Avacyn --> T4. I've been building with her, and I'd like to rank her higher because she's the first R/W commander that effectively enables a R/W control strategy (and is really cool while doing it), but in the end she's still in the weakest color identity there is and doesn't generate card advantage to mitigate that.

Odric, Lunarch Marshal --> T4. He's pretty cool (Concerted Effort on legs is nice), but he's still mono-white and doesn't actually provide an advance to aggro strategy the way Jazal Goldmane does.

Olivia, Mobilized for War --> T3. She's in a weak color identity, but even ignoring the fact that she makes tribal vampire effects playable, she works as great R/B reanimator general, which is a powerful enough strategy on it's own that any commander that contributes to it in a meaningful way is going to make it to T3. Plus the haste effect comes down early enough to actually matter.

Sigarda, Heron's Grace --> T3. Good color identity, token strategy, hexproof, critical mass of commander playable humans, ways to make her a human; all around this comes out to a pretty good deck. I'm not seeing anything outright special about it, but it's good enough overall to be in T3 I think.

I'm seeing Tier 3 at best for Gitrog. Unless someone finds a way to break it with an efficient 1-2 card combo, its doomed to mediocrity.

I mean, it feels like a fantastic stax commander. Generating advantage just by playing Magic, and the extra land is a nice bonus. Not to mention the shenanigans he can pull off with dredge.

The best stax commanders are ones that benefit you, allowing you to break symmetry on stax effects. Like how Brago resets mana rocks to get around Static Orb, or Selvala taps for lots of mana.

The idea is that your commander is mitigating the symmetrical effect so well that it doesn't bother you as much as it bothers your opponents.

With Gitrog he's adding a tax on (just) your resources, and the only mitigating factor is the extra land ability, which has to be built around.

He could wind up being really great, but making him consistent is going to be very, very tricky.

I am currently working on a Gritog list since I saw him, and I think it will be possible to break him with dredge and discard engines, like lothlet troll, to dredge and discard. It is gonna be my next deck (all hail the great frog lord), so I will try to break it as much as I can, and goung to write a primer. He does seems tier 2 to me though.

You simply don't put a card on the tier list until you have seen results. Putting a card up the second you see him is unreasonable.

No no no, I am not trying to put it in the list right now, I will wait to see him before

Ironically the "best" way to break The Gitgud Monster is outside his color identity since Seismic Assault goes infinite if the deck is built properly.

I can also see him adding value to existing dredge decks but as a commander I just don't think he does anything that Savra or Meren doesn't do for G/B

I would like to petition to move my Ghost Council up from tier 5

But the Frog could be a dedicated dredge deck, all the dredge cards are in thise colors... There must be a combo available to abuse dredging and lots of cards in graveyard like this... I will try to do my best so we can judge him properly after.

As far as the Mono green discussion on who makes the better elfball:

I'm having a hard time keeping personal bias out of it but here's my 2c.

Ezuri, while being a strong commander is more suited to a 1v1 environment. He is far easier to predict and far easier to kill, while he protects the other elves he does precious little to save himself. His playstyle is usually FAR more aggressive, encouraging you to tap out on your turn to Overrun, if this CAN'T win the game then that's pretty much it.

Omnath, on the other hand, can play a more reactive game because, thanks to the floating mana, you are never truly tapped out. This means that it's far easier to hold up Krosan Grip or Beast Within and still have a gigantic monster.
Also, unless I'm mistaken, mana doesn't change while it's in limbo. This means that Cavern of Souls naming elf can just float a ton of mana as the game goes on and this mana will still make them uncounterable.

Another benefit is that he is easily capable of putting people in a quandary when it comes to boardwipes. Kamahl, Fist of Krosa basically reads "boardwipe, I dare you, all of your lands go too." since you have all of that floating mana.

Lastly, as to the argument of "oh but I kill omnath and the mana goes away". There are four things outside of the normal protection that can help keep your mana, Aluren (amazing with elfball decks as long as you can ensure that your opponents won't get the same value since you can dump your hand at an opponent's EoT), Yeva, Nature's Herald, Nim Deathmantle (part of the Avenger of Zendikar combo with Ashnod's Altar), and good ol Vedalken Orrery.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not campaigning for Ezuri RL to be demoted but simply listing my reasons why I feel omnath outclasses him.

Ezuri should retain his T2 seat due to his popularity in duel commander, he IS quite strong, if one track.

So I've been trying to keep up with comments and if I missed the reasoning I apologize, but why is Jeleva tier one?

She is a strong commander but tier one strong? I know the strategy is a grixis storm deck, but how does that land her in tier one? If you cast her and she hits Ad Nauseam and is killed before she can cast it, the spell is exiled. Her colors lack the ability to deal with enchantments permanently. My friend runs her and his list does not revolve around a storm combo (he goes for Enter the Infinite to end the game) and it is one of the stronger decks in our meta, but my Omnath, Locus of Rage deck is able to compete against it. I am in no way advocating either decks but if my tier three general can keep the deck from winning I do not see how she holds tier one power. Also if you are running grixis Storm doesn't that defeat the whole advantage of Jeleva? She wants to play big spells free.

I know someone posted a decklist but I cannot find it.

Also I disagree with Uril, the Miststalker being potentially moved down. While the color combination may be considered weak, it still allows access to tutors necessary for the strategy. I'll look for the decklist I saw but one user (I think his name is just uril) made a pretty sound list. He has two. One that focuses on a Karmic Guide combo and one that focus more on uril. Both deck lists seem strong. The one that focuses on th combo, if it fails, still has a great back up plan.

Now I haven't seen any lists but this is more a theory, but I feel Nayal can be good for control with cards like Blood Moon (which is a damn good card) and uril as a win condition is not a bad route. Again, this is just a theory. I haven't really looked into a possible deck. But regardless Uril is a strong commander.

In terms of the SoI commanders, I'm going to hold judgement until the set comes out.

For the Ghost Counsil, I feel tier five is fair. He offers a sac outlet but I feel as though that's it. That life gain life loss he adds isn't the best for commander. I feel he fits the tier 5 description.

In terms of Jeleva, I'm not saying move her down, I simply am asking for more clarification as to her tier one power.

Also the tier description still has 6 tiers.

Unless I keep missing it, there is no tier six anymore right?

I wrote the last tier descriptions, so I guess I'll rewrite them. Give me a little bit.

Aggro-Blaster: Jeleva is mostly a placeholder general/plan D card for Grixis Storm. You mostly ignore her as you combo off, and the power of EDH storm makes it one of the fastest decks in the format. Jeleva is rarely cast, but can be used when you're trying to win through countermagic or you've just run out of gas. I like comparing it to Scion Hermit Druid combo; you rarely cast your commander, but you use it for its colors, and if the main function of your deck gets stopped, you can cast your commander and hope.

Here's Moxnix's list.

I apologize ahead of time for beating a dead horse but it is obvious I'm missing something when it comes to Ezuri. What makes Ezuri, Renegade Leader even close to tier 2. Are we are discussing multiplayer commander? If we are talking about tiny leaders or dual commander I agree he is easily one of best mono green commanders available, but in multiplayer he simply does not scale well to a 4 player pod. His regeneration is truly not that useful since green doesn't play a reactive game well and overrun is more times than not a win more ability.

I would also not move Reaper King down. He's a fine tier 2 five-color general. As for the new generals, I agree that it's a little silly to rank them before seeing them in action, but they have to start somewhere.

• Archangel Avacyn Really cool card, but her ability is worded so it's nearly impossible to efficiently abuse and she's in a really bad color combo. Tier 4.

• Odric, Lunarch Marshal Lots of words, but not very good. By himself he's an overcosted body, and his ability wants you to have a bunch of creatures in play with different abilites, which is a glass-cannon strategy to begin with and also doesn't work all that well with tokens. Mono-white doesn't help either. Tier 4. On a seperate note, it seems weird to me that he's the first creature to have his ability. The way this card is worded also makes me think Skulk will eventually become an evergreen mechanic.

• Olivia, Mobilized for War Cheap and evasive, which is nice, and has a cool ability. Has reanimator implications too since she's a discard outlet, so there's a backup win con built in. My gut says tier 3, though Rakdos generals always seem to be worse than they look. It's also brave of her to still be ready for war after losing a limb.

• Sigarda, Heron's Grace Giving you hexproof is super relevant, and her graveyard ability palys well in grindy situtations. She actually seems like a decent Stax or hatebears commander, though worse at both than Selvala or Gaddock Teeg. Either way it's hard not to see her as tier 3.

• The Gitrog Monster I love the balls off this card, and I will brew with it incessantly, but I don't see it above tier 3 to start. Can dredge your whole deck with Dakmor Salvage, okay with Smokestack and great with Crucible of Worlds and fetchlands, so I could see this card reaching tier 2 status someday once a critical mass of enablers exist. He(?) might even make Creeping Renaissance a decent card. However two things bother me about this card that have almost nothing to do with the card itself. First, it's annoying that they keep printing cards that are fantastic with Titania but can't be played with Titania as the commander. I can only hope that Wizards eventually prints a Jund legend that interacts with lands somehow so I can finally jam them all in the same deck. Secondly, it's pretty tilting that we get a frog legend (legendary frog, what a time to be alive) before we get a wurm legend. I mean, come on.

Going back to the Gitrod discussion: I agree with Sleazebag. It's impossible to properly place a commander until it's been in the format at least a few months. This is especially true when trying to sneak him into one of the competitive Tiers, which are reserved for commanders capable of winning at cuttthroat tables.

am I the only one who feels like Wort, Boggart Auntie doesn't belong in tier 4? I mean, she might not belong in tier 3, but she is miles above stuff like Zhuge Jin, Wu Strategist, Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran and Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen.

I mean, her recursion is super aggressive.