Deck Challenge: Westvale Abbey
Standard forum
Posted on April 19, 2016, 12:57 p.m. by capriom85
Ok, so a few recent posts have me thinking about this Westvale Abbey Flip card a lot. So much hype! So little promise! Or is there? I feel like in most cases people tend to agree that the card is "win-more" in most situations. That's certainly the case in most modern deck that could run it. BW tokens and Soul Sisters look at this and say "I'm not giving up my 5 3/3 spirits for this pitiful demon."
Let's look at Standard alone. The only way to hurt this guy is to bounce him or exile him. No shortage of ways to get that done, that's for sure! One connection with this guy is generally all we need, so let's make that happen. This means we only need to worry about the instant speed removal that exiles or bounces. This means some of the best removal of the format doesn't even touch him until we pass the turn.Doesnthisnwork out as well of runs as we need? Possibly not, To the Slaughter, Stasis Snare, andAnguished Unmaking are all pretty real and likely to be seen. There is also the thought of the dreaded chump block and then get him on the next main phase.My challenge to the TO community is to help me make this deck a thing. What colors do we want to play? What is our strategy to get him active (personal favorite is a potent Secure the Wastes at an opponent's end step)? Let's lut our heads together, come up with a list that triggers the abbey as our win con, then I'll sleeve it up and take it to my local FNMs to see how it does. I can post results and we can make tweaks as results pour in.
the immediate problems I see are that Invasive Surgery don't touch the removal we are afraid of. It only hits sorceries. Second Engulf the Shore will destroy our demon.
As counters we would be more interested in using Dispel to hose things like Anguished Unmaking and To the Slaughter and also Negate to stop stuff like Stasis Snare and everything else we would be afraid of. UW would give us plenty of removal and disruption until we find our Westvale Abbey Flip and make tokens.
April 19, 2016 4:34 p.m. Edited.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #4
Tokens...tokens for days. I would prefer to see it in a W/G token strategy because W/G is pretty strong without Abbey. But if you are just making it strictly Abbey win-con, then U/W tokens for days. I however disagree with the Abbey being the primary win con because it is very slow. Your creatures will run into removal or be forced to chump if you are trying to get to that Golden 5 Creature sac fodder count. But that's just me.
April 19, 2016 4:36 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco, I agree GW tokens is stronger than UW tokens but in this particular instance I think the blue is what gives us a snowball's chance in hell of getting our demon online and protecting it.
April 19, 2016 4:46 p.m.
MrDilliams says... #6
I would agree with taco, WG is a strong contender, WR or Naya could be effective too.
Red adds Pia and Kiran Nalaar, Dragon Fodder, and some good removal.
Green adds the Eldrazi scions, Scion Summoner, Eyeless Watcher, and mana ramp, Leaf Gilder etc.
I would also run Hangarback Walker and Hedron Crawler
April 19, 2016 5:30 p.m.
MrDilliams, Hedron Crawler and Hangarback Walker can fit into any build. I like both those ideas. My question about GW or RW, or even Naya comes to basically what are you going to do against a board wipe or spot removal?
I don't see much outside of blue that protects us there.
April 19, 2016 5:37 p.m.
MrDilliams says... #8
You bring up a good point, the strategy there would be to board in enchantment removal like Root Out against decks running stasis snare or the like, and to diversify by playing threats like Archangel Avacyn Flip, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Nissa, Voice of Zendikar or Chandra, Flamecaller.
Bant could be good, as you get Void Grafter, but UW would not have the best tools available.
April 19, 2016 6:02 p.m.
Void Grafter actually looks pretty cool in this scenario. Archangel Avacyn Flip would be another cool include. This is fog to be a tougher challenge than I thought, MrDilliams
April 19, 2016 6:05 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #10
You're worried about board wipes? BRAH, you will be playing Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, Hangarback Walker and Secure the Wastes...Who cares about board wipes, if they want to do that, then fine, you are then just going to rebuild with the resources you already have on board and smash face, or just have the tokens from Hangarback Walker and Secure the Wastes take over. Plus, if you have any inkling of the opponent playing sweepers, you obviously do not want to play right into them, so you have to make that good decision of doing so. PLUS, you have access to play Archangel Avacyn Flip. You honestly do not give any flocks about sweepers or 1 for 1 removal. If they are using 1 for 1 removal, you are winning because all of your threats should be able to be resilient enough to deal with it by producing more threats, coming back later, or just doesn't care about it, aka Gideon. G/W seems like the most obvious choice to me. And blue isn't all that powerful STILL in Standard. Jace is the best thing Blue has aside from Reflector Mage. But other than that, what else does blue have...Dragonlord Ojutai = Sure but that's not what you want to be sacking to Abbey and if you go this route, you might as well play with the new anthem, changes the deck. What counter magic does it have besides Negate...Ojutai's Command, sure that's fine and dandy, but in the style of deck you are running, you probably won't have all that many 2 drops to make it worth while. And if you go this route, again, you are changing the style of deck because you should be utilizing the new anthem. Negate is good and all, but there is nothing worse than a Negate stuck in your hand and all your opponent does is continuously play creatures, because that is exactly where the format is at right now.
I can see G/W being good because A) Den Protector, B) Secure the Wastes, C) Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, C) Archangel Avacyn Flip, D) Sylvan Advocate, E) Nissa, Vastwood Seer Flip, and F) Dromoka's Command (being probably one of the strongest spells in the format right now with all the durdly creatures). This is just probably the best route to go with an Abbey deck that wants to be able to consistently get Ormendahl on line.
April 19, 2016 6:25 p.m.
We are quickly getting away from the point that Westvale Abbey Flip is the focal point here. Heehee
April 19, 2016 6:29 p.m.
bijschjdbcd says... #12
I think a streamlined deck is your best deck. The mana just isnt supported to be too greedy.
I would go GB or GW playing Cryptolite Rite and tokens.
That way you can do it very quickly. Im leaning towards GW because of Dromakas command.
I dont like this strategy at all. Token strategys are good against 1 for 1 removal. Which means your opponents live removal is probably in their hands.
April 19, 2016 8:38 p.m.
MrDilliams says... #13
The best part about this is that you won't be counting Abbey as a spell, it is a land, so you just need to worry about supporting the goal of transforming it. But that also means that Abbey cannot alone carry the deck, you need the other ways to win in case Abbey decides not to show up. I don't see any scenario where you don't want both white and green, as white is the best at tokens, and green is the best at dealing with enchantments which is basically your only concern with Ormendahl.
April 19, 2016 8:40 p.m.
Which enchantments are we worried about? I'm worried about keeping enchantments off the board but not removing them. It's too late once he is exiled with Stasis Snare or Silkwrap.
April 19, 2016 10:33 p.m.
Centurion582 says... #16
I agree the more pressing removal is at instant speed but if you are that worried about spot removal then make it a UW spirits deck and run Rattlechains with a ton of 1/1 flyers as hexproof fodder for Abbey, and the Engulf the Shore hopefully would not hit a 7/8 because if you have 8 islands out then your mana base is either too off kilter or it is entirely too late game I agree on Declaration in Stone being great because it gets rid of big threats and things like Kindly Stranger Flip
April 19, 2016 11:35 p.m.
I was reading Engulf the Shore wrong. It's a legit card here. How am I making all these 1/1 spirits? Also, my issue with spot removal is things hitting the demon from Westvale Abbey Flip.
April 20, 2016 7:24 a.m.
Centurion582 says... #19
Sorry I forgot we were aiming for standard lol but still there are a ton of 3 or 2 or 1 drops that make great stand-alones or fodder for Abbey and maybe that's a good thing you run a playset and while they are wasting all of their removal you can just ping them to death with flyers
April 21, 2016 11:44 a.m.
Centurion582 says... #20
I also read rattle chains wrong I thought the hexproof effect was board wide but I guess not haha but still it has flash can give a creature hexproof and is 2 drop fodder
April 21, 2016 11:50 a.m.
Blue white can make spirits even with control-y stuff like essence flux and not forgotten (which can mess up your opponent for a turn, or get back a discarded Abbey), use rattlechains and maybe Odric to give Ormendhal hexproof at least during combat, and has counter magic. Sounds to me like the best way to go for straight Abbey win con. But even then you can't really depend on him all the time.
Don't forget he's also susceptible to sacrifice removal like clip wings and... ruinous path? I think that's the one I'm thinking of, 1BB, tp sacrifices a creature or planeswalker?
May 13, 2016 4:27 p.m.
To the Slaughter. But I am playing several copies of Westvale Abbey Flip in my current UW midrange deck and it's really doing well as a deck. The Abbey actually won me two games tonight at FNM. One against mono white humans and one against WG humans. I almost won because of the Abbey against a Jund midrange build, but sadly I miscalculated and my opponent pulled off an 18 point swing the turns after I put him to 7 with my demon.
That all said...the best way to "wake the demon" is in a white shell that runs 3-4 copies of Secure the Wastes. Even in this ideal scenario, it can only be a secondary or "when applicable" win-con. No deck should be revolving around this one. It feels great when it goes off, though.
It should be noted, other people are playing this card. Of the 8 matches I played tonight, 6 decks were running the Abbey. Only ones I didn't see it in were Jund and Goggles. That same humans deck that lost to my Abbey stonewalled my Abbey the next game we played. He popped his demon the turn after I woke mine and neither of us could do a damn thing until I used my Descend upon the Sinful to solve the stalemate.
Long story short: I LOVE this card...but Westvale Abbey Flip is not a "build around me" card. It's a "use me if you have lots of creatures to spare" sometimes card.
May 13, 2016 11:36 p.m.
Yeah the good thing about Abbey is it goes in literally ANY deck that could potentially have 5 creatures on the board.
All of the cards pros make it able to go in any deck and all of its cons make it to where it can't really be relied upon solely for a win condition. It's such a cool card not only in flavor and strength but also how balanced it feels.
May 15, 2016 12:55 p.m.
I agree, Mr_Badguy. It's not over powered in any deck BC just any color can deal with it and it's a gamble when you activate it. Fragile but effective.
I also play it as a 1 of in my Soul Sisters modern deck. Wiah I could say works every time, but it's really just a conditional "let's close the game out now" kinda thing.
Centurion582 says... #2
UW token rush? With some counters sideboarded for removal disruption? Invasive Surgery for Anguished Unmaking etc... Then Secure the Wastes and other token poppers and maybe some Topplegeist and other tappers to get rid of blockers and such it's quite possible even a Engulf the Shore
April 19, 2016 4:29 p.m.