Returning players - where to start?

General forum

Posted on July 13, 2020, 12:07 a.m. by 5colourchaos

Hello everyone,

I've been out of Magic:The Gathering for quite a while. Recently a friend and I have decided to start playing again, and purchased new cards.

I purchased the core set 2020/2021 starer kits that in total gave me a Red, Black, Green, and White deck. Looking to get a Blue deck, but at the time being trying to find new cards to supplement my current decks.

The game sure has changed quite a bit from what I remember. I was pretty young back when I played previously, and only used very basic cards.

I would like some guidance on where I should start with my new MTG experience. I've posted my 4 decks, and my friends deck who I've been playing against. Any feedback would be greatly welcomed! I know my cards aren't on a very competitive level.

These are my decks:

Drakuseth, Maw of Flames Mono Red

Kogla, the Titan Ape Mono Green

Sephara, Sky's Blade Mono White

Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose Mono Black

My friend's deck:

Mono Green Aggro

We're still learning the rules, hence why there are some banned cards listed. Any information to help out a couple of old newbies would be awesome!

Thank you very much everybody!

5CC

Caerwyn says... #2

The first two questions I have to ask:

  1. What type of play are you looking at getting into? Competitive play? Just playing around with friends?

  2. What format are you looking at getting into (or are you just looking to play at the Kitchen Table)? Your decks are listed as Modern, but they contain mainly Standard cards. Not sure if you have looked into the various format options; if not, I can give you a brief primer on what each is.

July 13, 2020 12:17 a.m.

5colourchaos says... #3

  1. Just with friends. Still want to make sure we’re using legal cards and abiding by rules though.

  2. I suppose I classified them as modern because I have cards in my deck that are illegal in standard (found that out when I posted my deck list under standard lol). A break down of the differences would help! Not sure if I should just focus on standard or incorporate modern as well.

July 13, 2020 12:37 a.m.

Caerwyn says... #4

The big formats are:

  1. Standard - Standard is only cards from the most recent sets, and rotates periodically--that means older sets fall out of Standard, and cards from them cannot be used.

  2. Pioneer - A fairly new format that uses cards Standard-legal sets (i.e. they were legal in Standard when released; things like Jumpstart were never in Standard, so they do not get added to Pioneer) from Return to Ravnica forward. Probably a good format for a beginner to aim for--it does not rotate like Standard, while also not having the expense of Modern or other formats.

  3. Modern - This format uses cards from Standard-legal sets from 8th Edition forward.

  4. Legacy/Vintage - These formats use cards from all sets in Magic's history. Their respective banlists differentiate the two. These formats tend to be extremely expensive and fast-paced, making them less than ideal for beginners.

There are a few other popular 60 card formats, like Pauper (only commons), but the above are the most common competitive ones.

Not sure how long ago you played, but Commander is a format that has become extremely popular over the past couple years. This format is different from the others, in that it is not a 60-card constructed format. You build a 100 card deck, where you cannot have more than 1 copy of any card (other than basic lands). One of your 100 cards is your "Commander" and it starts in a special zone. Your entire deck has to share the color identity of your commander (so, if you have a Blue/White commander, you can only use Blue and/or White color identity cards in the remaining 99). You can cast your Commander from its special zone, and it can return there when your Commander leaves the battlefield, so you always have access to it. (There's some other special rules, but those are the basics for the purpose of the explanation). Commander can vary in terms of power, but lots of people play it casually.

I think that is all the most popular ones.

July 13, 2020 12:58 a.m.

shadow63 says... #5

I always find deck builders toolkits to be a great point for new players to start. You get 4 packs and a large assortment of cards from whatever set ots from. Also since you just started the packages of like 20 rares for $5 or whatever arnt great but you can end up getting decent stuff out of those.

Also card kingdom offers battle decks for I believe $10 a pop. They are full fledged decks that would be great for casual play. And one last thing theres the challanger decks. They are 70% strength tournament decks. Probably the best bang for your buck

July 13, 2020 7:43 a.m.

abby315 says... #6

I second shadow63's last point: the Challenger Decks are a very, very good starting point for competitive standard decks. They include key cards and, more importantly, are built around a strategy that is good in standard. Once you get used to playing with the starter decks - which give you a good feeling for what the color does nowadays but are very low-powered - you might want to pick up a few Challenger Decks and use/upgrade those!

As a note, the Fires of Invention Challenger Deck contains a shockland, Steam Vents, which is a very good value if you can find it at MSRP. However, Fires of Invention is banned in Standard.

July 13, 2020 9:04 a.m.

TriusMalarky says... #7

Since you're just playing with friends, you get the leeway of not needing to spend tons of money acquiring decent cards. That means that, overall, you can get a lot more bang for your buck.

I'll be giving you my personal preferences for a casual player who may or may not ever get into slightly more competitive play, AKA FNM.

  • 1) There are bulk boxes available for $15-20 of a thousand or two assorted cards. Keep in mind a lot of the cards might not be legal in Modern, but they do tend to be acquired from mostly newer sets(from the two I bought, ~70% of the contents were standard legal at the time of purchase). I recommend one of those to just about everyone who's getting into the game. They might not end up giving you tons of great value, but it's solid card fodder to help you learn and explore more archetypes and strategies.

I also recommend picking up cheap staples by the playset. The following are a bunch of cards you can probably get for $2 or less apiece, in many cases for the whole 4 copies.

That's mostly just a pile of suggestions, though. The lands will be absolutely necessary for any multicolor deck you build, although wait a month or three to get the Thriving lands because those currently have an immensely low supply and will be reprinted shortly.

July 13, 2020 10:41 a.m.

FormOverFunction says... #8

I played a lot in the 90s, then lost interest in the themes and power levels: mirrodin had junk like Arcane Spyglass that looked too sci-fi, and kamigawa had junk like Kami of Ancient Law which was a Disenchant that was also a 2/2. Bananas. Anyways, I came back eventually, only to find out that they got rid of mana burn and the power creep has continued. Left for a little longer, and then found out about commander/EDH. This format has made it possible for me to get back into M:tG full-time. It’s got a great population of relaxed players, I love messing with theme decks, and it’s a great perspective to watch new card sets from. Now that you know some of my history/perspective: please let me know if you ever have questions about anything!

July 13, 2020 6:50 p.m.

magwaaf says... #9

FormOverFunction what format are you most interested in? ive been back almost a year after a 9 year break. it's a pain in the ass but its fun lol. i play pioneer, edh, and if anyone buys a box i will draft with them lol.

also if you think kamigawa had "power" you should see the last decade lol. its amazing and the game is so different and fun... way better than it was when i played in the 90's

July 13, 2020 6:52 p.m.

magwaaf says... #10

5colourchaos meant to tag you in the first paragraph and him in the second in the above post lol... im good like that

July 13, 2020 6:55 p.m.

5colourchaos says... #11

I'd just like to start off by saying thank you all so much for your replies! Your insight and comments are very great to have!

In regards to rules/formats, we're very lax. I believe Legacy/Modern would be the formats we'd frequent the most. I have a box of older cards from around series 8 I believe that we sometimes use in the decks we play, as well as the newest cards from the newer series.

I really like the list provided by TriusMalarky staple cards that typically work in a lot decks I feel was very nice to know.

In terms of building of deck, what would be an optimal way to build one? Should I pick a win condition and then get cards that work around that? Should I pick a creature type, say Dragon for example, and then only get cards that buff, and support dragons?

Are all multi-colour decks better than mono colour generally? I don't have much experience with multi-colour decks. I've typically only played mono colour.

Formats like commander do interest me a lot! Definitely something I can see myself playing after getting back into normal Magic for a bit. The decks just seem a bit more expensive lol.

Again, thank you all so much!

5CC

July 13, 2020 8:43 p.m.

RiotRunner789 says... #12

I started playing when Mirrodin was in standard then left shortly after Shards of Alara. I played standard and kitchen table magic (don't believe modern was a thing yet and no one I knew had heard of EDH). I came back shortly after Rivals of Ixalan was released and started playing standard and then picked up commander.

I play commander exclusively now after building a janky War of the Sparks deck I just never played. Commander can be a bit difficult to jump right into but I find it the most fun and casual format. It has has the benefit that if you step away again the deck you played with will work just fine (you may want to tune a bit but shouldn't have lost too much power).

But as for your questions,

"In terms of building of deck, what would be an optimal way to build one?"

First from a commander perspective, I would find a commander that catches your eye. There's a good website called EDHREC. I'd just look at the top commander or your look under you favorite color pair and then choose one that just looks cool/neat/fun. EDHREC has a lot of tools to help build commander decks.

For standard or other formats I would look at friends deck and or tournament winners for inspiration. I wouldn't make a card for card copy of a tourny deck but think of the same strategies they use. For example there was some decent gate-themed deck floating around for a while and I decided to build a good but a bit janky version of one them.

Overall, find what you find is fun. Do you like milling your opponents? Big dumb creatures? Spell slinging? A slow grindy control game? It really just depends on your play style.

"Are all multi-colour decks better than mono color generally?"

Yes-ish. More colors give more versatility and options. They typically have more answers and are more powerful. I would recommend sticking to two colors for getting use to new deck/rules/beginning in general. If you do pick up commander, I would recommend a color combination with green. Green has great ramp and has tends to have more straight forward strategies (such as getting big trampl-y creatures and smashing face).

July 14, 2020 12:12 a.m.

TriusMalarky says... #13

First, as those are mostly a pile of suggestions, there are literally a hundred or two more cards that would fit in that category -- so I filtered it out and gave you some of my favorites. If you want more...... I might need to sector off my weekend.

Now, for deckbuilding, here's a few baseline rules that you really should know:

Start with your win condition or your value engine. A solid example of a win condition is Colossal Dreadmaw or Charging Monstrosaur. They're solid sized creatures for the right cost, and they're very difficult to outpace once you've resolved them. A win condition should be the way you deal most of your damage.

  • In creature based green decks, you want about 8-12 4-5 or even 6 mana creatures as your win conditions. Typically Green has Ramp, which means bigger cards come down faster.

  • Another good strategy is t1 Elvish Mystic or one of his friends into a t2 3-mana creature. You can find some pretty good creatures that will enable to get a 4/5 in play t2 with that strategy, but you want 8-12 1-mana ramp and 8-12 3 drops.

  • In aggro decks, you typically want 8-16 1-mana threats. Aim lower if you're red(red gets cards like Lightning Bolt and higher if you have white and/or black. Cards like Dauntless Bodyguard are fairly common in W/B so you can be a lot more creature heavy.

  • In more control heavy decks, you might not be running any creatures at all. With control, you typically want to kill creatures rather than play them.

For value engines, just about anything that draws a card every turn or can make a creature every turn. If you go value, make sure you have a good enough win condition -- you can't win by just drawing cards.

Your core(win con/engine) should probably be 4 mana on average. 3 mana in faster decks, 5 mana in green or control decks. Of course, if you're a green control deck(*coff coff standard bant ramp coff coff) you can probably use higher costed cards. Plenty of control decks will use 6 mana win conditions and 4/5 mana value engines.

Once you have that, you need to build around it. You want 4-12 1-mana spells and 8-12 2 mana spells. Once you're done, you should have a handful of things to do t1, t2, and t3. You should plan your game almost entirely up to t5, and it is preferable although difficult(you'll need to get out your hypergeometric calculator) to plan your game up until t10.

Remember to make absolute sure that you have things to play early game. It is so easy to lose just because you didn't draw the 5th land you needed. Of course, you'll be in a more casual setting meaning you won't have quite as much to worry about, but you should at least follow bare minimum curve guidelines to get the most out of your deck.

Here's the basics on land counts:

  • want 2, functions with 1: 18/19/20

  • want 3, functions with 2: 22

  • needs 3: 23

  • want 4/5, functions with 3: 23/24

  • want 6/7, functions with 3/4: 24/25/26

  • absolutely needs 5+ mana: 25+ (increment by 2, so needs 6 should be 27)

Those are my go-tos, they might need tweaking for you depending on how you shuffle.

On that note, I find that different decks need different shuffle styles. I will seriously shuffle decks differently based on how I've noticed I've drawn with different shuffles. Also, when cutting your opponent's deck it is possible to cut it in a way that increases their chance of getting a bad hand and needing to mulligan. I've won many a game by cutting well, but I won't be sharing that secret.

On multicolor v. monocolor:

Multicolored decks are typically better. You mostly want 2 colors, possibly three and if you're insane and have the cash(aka elon musk) you can go 4. If you're Elementals, Humans or Slivers you can attempt 5 color.

However, monocolor decks get one huge advantage: they can be a lot faster. Since their manabase has 0 downsides, they don't have to play their cards right in order to be able to cast their spells, meaning they can just play cards. The efficiency makes monocolor great for fast, aggressive decks.

On deck ideas to recommend(for 60-card):

  • fliers

  • stompy

  • control

  • aggro

Those are great baseline decks to try out and try to get the feel of some generic archetypes. Once you've attempted those, branch out and see what you like.

July 14, 2020 10:51 a.m.

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