GIRLS OF MAGIC (List)
General forum
Posted on Aug. 22, 2014, 6:20 p.m. by magicbullet
I started thinking about the girls of magic.
After look through gatherer, I noticed that females are represented well.
so who is you favorite female ? out side out Liliana and Chandra
here is a list I put together of just a fraction that exist
magicbullet says... #4
ChiefBell I realize that but i felt like I didnt want to spend the next two weeks copying and pasting. your welcome to help me complete the list.
August 22, 2014 6:44 p.m.
CrazyLittleGuy says... #5
That's a bit of an exaggeration, don't you think? I can't even pick 10 off this list that are ridiculously over sexualized, and I challenge you to do it :P
August 22, 2014 6:48 p.m.
Well that might be not original at all but i like Liliana and Elspeth very much. Elpeth story is great (i love the phyrexian storyline) and her recent feature in the Theros block was awesome.
Just to dip into the discussion about oversexualization in fantasy franchises: It is a real issue. Yes male characters are also oversexualized and stereotyped (tall, good looking, muscles all over the place manly manly manly manly!!!!) but it is much worse for female characters.
WofC however keeps it actually pretty reasonable for female characters and Elspeth is a great example for it if you look at her cards : Elspeth Tirel , Elspeth, Knight-Errant and Elspeth, Sun's Champion . Obviesly she is slim and good looking but not unhealthy skinny which makes sense since she is a physical warrior and has to keep herself fit. In none of those pictures does she have unreasonable big cleavage or is clothed overly revealing, actually she is fully armored in a untypical fantasy (lets wear a steal bra and panties) armor but in a absolutely functional and sensical suit of armor.
Ofcourse there are many other examples for both sides. Liliana for is more sexualized but it suites her "bad girl" (big understatement) character well.
August 22, 2014 7:41 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #7
C'mon who cares what's sexualized? You think the overly buff dudes aren't sexualized? I think mtg is pretty fair on how they portray both genders
August 22, 2014 8:05 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #8
To be fair lilliana had literally screwed jace for knowledge as well ;)
August 22, 2014 8:07 p.m.
magicbullet says... #9
wow, I really miss read ChiefBell's post. Some outfits also add flavor too. for example Burning-Tree Emissary looks very wild almost a native American feel . her facial expression just screams pride, although others look down on her for her savagery. she knows shes bada**...
August 22, 2014 8:39 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #10
Hey man dat Bogbrew Witch is definitely over sexualized.
August 22, 2014 9:31 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #11
She's s witch bro. She lures men in for sex and murders them. Allegedly at least. My point I'd like to make is that this is a fantasy game where for women who lack physical strength and ect, they make up for in speed and skill. Hence lighter armor. Should we then complain that 9 times out of ten in kill target creature card is amab getting killed? It's silly to go so deep into feeling about this.
August 22, 2014 9:36 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #12
Dude i don't care if she is supposed to attract men with her allure and murder them. Balding and boobs that look like tennis balls in tube socks get people hot and bothered enough. But adding the hunch back is taking it way too far into being over sexualized.
August 22, 2014 9:41 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #13
Hey don't you judge what she does for money. She's an independent.....um... woman...and don't need no man to satisfy her.
August 22, 2014 9:45 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #14
It doesn't make sense to start griping that most of the characters portrayed on a fantasy game's cards are attractive (male and female alike). Of course they are. This is art you're going to be looking at hundreds if not thousands of times. Which of these two would you rather look at thousands of times?
or
August 22, 2014 9:47 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #15
The only times the characters aren't portrayed as attractive in some way are the times when it adds flavor, like in the case of Bogbrew Witch mentioned above.
August 22, 2014 9:48 p.m.
Hallowed_Titan says... #17
I used to buy alot of boosters around Nemesis block-Plague Witch
August 22, 2014 11:43 p.m.
Conqueror_of_Thrones says... #18
Basandra, Battle Seraph and Aurelia, the Warleader all day
August 23, 2014 1:01 a.m.
I get the whole oversexualization in mainstream media, but in magic... Come on. Like, who is really looking at a magic card like "I need to look like Jaya Ballard, Task Mage ." I get it with advertisement and TV and shit, but a fantasy game is just that... Fantasy. It's what people want it to be. That means lots of boobs and dudes with bulging pecs. No disrespect to the issue, I just think maybe we tackle the big problem areas before D&D and LotR.
August 23, 2014 1:17 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #20
The day women can be used as cannon fodder in the media (movies tv ect) I'll respect the issue a little more. I stand by what i said. You won't be finding a lot of women death anywhere so a little sexualization isn't going to kill anyone.
August 23, 2014 1:34 a.m.
I have no problem with sexualisation, I have a problem with over-sexualisation. The line is portraying a form of beauty that's over the top or unobtainable. Whilst it's not as much of an issue in fantasy games as it is in the mainstream media it does send a somewhat damaging message - "hey look at how hot these women are, you should try to be like this because they're super alluring, don't you want to be alluring?". That message is fine if it's an obtainable target but not fine if it's an unobtainable one.
Women characters are generally sought after and portrayed in line with their natural assets (their boobs) whereas male characters are generally sought after and portrayed in line with their achievements that took effort (like strength and other things). We value women for being objects to look at and we value men for doing heroic things. Which is somewhat jarring because it says to females - men are good because they do good things, women are good because men like to look at them. That's another disconnect.
Another problem with fantasy tropes is that typically women are portrayed as cunning and deceitful, in that they use their feminine body to get their own way. This is essentially fantasy slut-shaming. It's spreading the message that women are inherently wrong or bad to be comfortable in, or to use, their bodies. In reality, everyone's free to use their body as they see fit. Guys go to the gym to attract women, women wear revealing outfits to attract guys. Neither of them are being deceitful or cunning or anything else. This is why Liliana is problematic as a character. Obviously she has really evil traits above that, but adding that on (shes a bit deceitful in the use of her body) is like saying 'girls should not ever take pride in their body and flaunt it'
It's important to highlight these sorts of things everywhere. You can try and tackle all problems at once, there's nothing wrong with that at all. I don't really have a problem with magic in any big way, it just amuses me that people think that it's fine.
There is an answer to this: you can portray really hot but obtainable women and really strong but obtainable men. You can have women that are 'dangerous' for using their body but not necessarily 'bad' for using their body and you can portray women as being famous for their good deeds rather than the way they look. Magic has examples of this, as already highlighted Elspeth is a great character. Liliana is more problematic. Unfortunately, a fair amount of magic falls into these traps.
August 23, 2014 5:30 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #23
While I agree that there is a problem with the portrayal of females in fantasy in general. I think that maybe you chose the wrong game to criticize for it. Of the 58 card images that load:
49 have perfectly obtainable body types
Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts is Unobtainable because of her breast size.
8 are too thin to be obtainable. Of those 1 is attractive, 4 are non-human and I'm not sure Merfolk and Fae should count but I counted them.
26 are of no particular leaning on the strength/deceit dichotomy.
13 are renowned for battle skill
10 are deceitful (Again I don't think the Fae should count but they are in there)
August 23, 2014 8:39 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #24
I gotta abandon thread at this point. This subject gets me too heated.
August 23, 2014 8:42 a.m.
Gidgetimer the waist size of tavern swindler compared to book size is hilarious. That's not how anatomy works..... (without like, surgery).
Regardless, magic is by no means that bad for it.
August 23, 2014 9:23 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #26
I'm not sure I agree with the waist to breast comparison on Tavern Swindler . I will admit that it is pushing the realms of what is naturally possible, but then again I have known women who had to get breast reductions (from their natural size) to save their back. Although now that I look at a bigger picture of it, that head is large enough that she almost looks like a Bratz doll. So we can add her to the list of unrealistic and still oddly attractive. So we are down to 47 obtainable body types.
August 23, 2014 9:33 a.m.
Ashling the Pilgrim / Ashling, the Extinguisher Because the Lorwyn cycle was my favorite, and her story was really interesting. Runner up would of gone to Sapling of Colfenor because of being a tree, and still a lady (I think).
August 23, 2014 1:46 p.m.
Metroid_Hybrid says... #28
Ignoring the bulk of the thread here...
The initial list leaves out one of my favorite human female cards to play-- in terms of function & flavor: Knight Exemplar ..
August 23, 2014 10:07 p.m.
merrowMania says... #29
Point of clarification: Are we only looking at creature cards? Or is anything and everything being considered?
August 24, 2014 12:08 p.m.
merrowMania says... #30
Now that I'm reading page two, this argument/discussion is being taken too far, not that I want to get into it too much myself. The point of this thread is to determine personal favorites. I assume the intention was harmless and I believe that everyone should just CALM THE F*** DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now that that's out of my system, I can speak my mind: this discussion should be continued on its own thread, something which I believe Gidgetimer and/or ChiefBell would be willing to post/host.
Again, I just want everyone to CALM THE F*** DOWN and be civilized about this.
TL;DR: TAKE IT OUTSIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you.
August 24, 2014 12:16 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #31
I believe ChiefBell and I were keeping it pretty civil. But as you said that isn't the point of this thread. This one is about favorite female cards. I'm not sure if we are going by art alone or characters so:
My favorite art depicting a female character is Archangel of Thune .
My favorite female character is Elspeth. I sincerely hope that we get undead W/B Elspeth.
August 24, 2014 12:46 p.m.
slovakattack says... #33
I'm a big Fantasy guy, and I have to say that one of the things I like about MTG is how non-sexualized (for sexualization's sake) it's female characters are.
There are IPs that use the notion of 'artistic style' to create true abominations (Dragon's Crown comes to mind. All of it's female cast are variations on this: Not-Safe-For-Sanity )
Wizards, on the other hand, has 10 Knight Exemplar for every Hero of Bladehold . (and in fairness to Hero of Bladehold, the promo version actually shows that the Male members of Bladehold actually wear an equivalent outfit. Make of that what you will.)
August 24, 2014 4:20 p.m.
@Gidgetimer. Archangel of Thune is the card I decided to get a playmat of. She's badass.
August 24, 2014 6:28 p.m.
I guess magic is somewhat fair, but not totally. My favourite is still Liliana of the Veil because I play her all the time and she's great.
ChiefBell says... #2
There are like 14,000 magic cards and you can come up with a list of like 60 females of which most have ridiculously over sexualised features.
They're not represented well.
August 22, 2014 6:24 p.m.