Opposition Agent needs a preemptive EDH ban

Commander (EDH) forum

Posted on Nov. 5, 2020, 8:10 p.m. by jaymc1130

Yeah, ridiculous to think about it for a card that will be printed in a set intended for EDH, but this card single handedly breaks the entire format to an unheard of degree. No more powerful EDH card has ever been printed, no card more warps the format than this card will. Soon enough it will be realized that the only viable (in competitive terms) concepts to play are Agent based concepts and more casual settings will despise the card because of the 3 for 1 nature hosing games very quickly at an extremely affordable pricetag.

No worse card for EDH has ever existed, and likely no card worse for EDH ever will.

This card absolutely should be banned from the format before the set is even released. Who ever thought of it should be removed from any and all EDH design teams in the future to prevent further catastrophes.

I could go in depth into all the reason why this card is the most disgusting thing ever seen for EDH, but, quite frankly, the text alone says enough. Any card that is a must run that makes Scheming Symmetry a must run card in the cEDH meta is a very very poorly designed card.

Opposition Agent... sigh. Seriously WotC? Seriously?

Calm down. Force of Will exists. Path to Exile exists. Swords to Plowshares exists. Pact of Negation exists. You can fucking Lightning Bolt it. Everything is fine.

November 5, 2020 8:19 p.m.

MagicMarc says... #3

It will get hated out so fast, people will only cast it to get your bolts out of your hand for their other plays.

November 5, 2020 8:22 p.m.

You can literally Shock it LMAO

November 5, 2020 8:23 p.m.

SynergyBuild says... #5

@Omniscience_is_life in cEDH rn, the deck that's being piloted a ton is a turbo pile with a ton of variants called Farm, this dumps on it, and so many other piles in such an aggressive way that it's beyond scary.

Honestly, get rid of that deck, you'll be fine, we have answers, but it's unanswerable. When you cast it, it gets protection immediately by stealing a Force of Will, or Pact of Negation, or Fierce Guardianship. Weirdly, the best answer to get to protect it is another Agent. It's so powerful that it actually may get banned for power levels, despite the flash banning saying it wouldn't happen again in that way for cEDH.

@MagicMarc I'd agree if it didn't protect itself, I don't like that stax pieces can steal a counterspell or another copy of itself, which could theoretically steal another copy or another counterspell.

November 5, 2020 8:24 p.m. Edited.

Ok, I'm not going to pretend to understand all that. All I'm saying is it's a 3/2 creature without hexproof or anything, without an ETB that you can't stop after it resolves. I think I'm missing something, but it seems deal-with-able

November 5, 2020 8:31 p.m.

Here's the better question:

Which one is more oppressive: Hullbreacher or Opposition Agent?

The answer, neither, you just play them both lmao.

November 5, 2020 8:31 p.m.

MagicMarc says... #8

This post is growing faster than I can type!

That is very true, SynergyBuild. Don't get me wrong, it's really quite the piece of work. But if it has legs, it can be hated out.

I think that it's a pretty ferocious threat in 1v1 commander due to limited replies from 1 opponent. But in multiplayer pods it wont last any longer than any other major threat with legs.

UpperDeckerTaco; Those will be some salty tears.

November 5, 2020 8:38 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #9

So, primarily, what I'm hearing is that people think you can simply use some piece of removal or or permission to answer the threat posed by the Agent. This is incorrect. When an Agent is being correctly played it will be played in a circumstance where the casting player has back up to protect the Agent (as the threat of a resolved Agent is, quite literally, game winning on the spot). Casting an Agent is the same as casting any other game winning combo line, you do not do this in competitive settings (or even casual settings) without protection for the line of play. Let's make this point first and get it out of the way so that we can summarily dismiss the notion of "oh just use some removal on it".

The second important consideration here is that when (not if, when) Agent hits the board it locks up games of EDH in a way no other card is capable of doing. It simultaneously presents a game winning threat while preventing opponents from searching for EITHER game winning threats of their own or answers to the game winning threat that is already on the board.

The third thing to consider is that this card will often be cast when an opponent casts a tutor of some sort to search for a threat of their own. In most cases this will result in the Agent player casting the Agent and immediately finding a piece of protection for the Agent with the usurped search (FoW, Guardianship, Pact, free counters, you get the idea) which will cement the threat the Agent presents quite nicely.

This trio of considerations and the capabilities of the Agent to engage on all these angles of attack with a single 3 mana play (easy to play even on turn 1 in EDH) for the primary concerns with why this card is so troublesome for EDH in general. But it gets worse... much much worse.

Hullbreacher is also being printed. Narset, Notion Thief, and Maralen all exist. There are no shortage of effects that will layer very nicely on top of the Agent to completely lock up the game state and prevent an opposing players from ever finding the gas or answers needed to handle the situation and this will become the single most common game state scenario in EDH in the months and years that follow if this card is allowed to enter the format at all. The position afforded to a player that assembles this type of lead is so commanding and resistant to disruption that just entering such a game state is essentially a win on the spot. All this without considering any of the other implications of Opposition Agent in any way and we've already arrived at the single most powerful card ever printed for EDH and it's not even a contest. No other card that has ever been legal is even remotely this powerful. No other combination of 2 cards, in fact, is this powerful. And again, we have yet to even get into the implications of the strategies and lines of play that are invalidated in a format dependent on tutors when access to tutors is universally denied in every game and games become about who can stick and protect the first Opposition Agent.

Hate to say it folks, but "just bolt the Agent" is an invalid response to the card and no true valid response exists aside from also playing Agent strategies yourself, hoping and praying to RNGesus that yours hits the board first and sticks.

November 5, 2020 8:38 p.m.

Dredge4life says... #10

Alternatively, Shock.

November 5, 2020 8:44 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #11

Alternatively, FoW your shock.

Do you or the table have any other answers? No? Okay, gg. You'll never get to find any.

November 5, 2020 8:46 p.m.

Would you say it's better than Thassa's Oracle? Will it win even remotely close to the same amount of games? You can't even let Oracle resolve, whereas (to the best of my understanding) you can let the Agent land, and before your tutor goes off fire some removal and, because you ALSO know how to play the game, have some sort of countermagic up as well. A wise person once said, "..if it has legs, it can be hated out"

November 5, 2020 8:47 p.m.

MagicMarc says... #13

That is a lot of typing to point out that you will have to build around it or in response to it like many other cards and decks in Magic's history.

Strong cards force strong answers.

Most of your arguments equally apply to decks opposing the Opposition Agent. If you plan on tutoring, you need to have an answer ready for when they flash in their agent, etc, etc.

Again, I don't disagree that this card can warp games. But it's not the first card to do it and it certainly won't be the last.

November 5, 2020 8:47 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #14

Agent completely invalidates Consult Oracle as a strategy. You literally cannot even play Consult Oracle post Agent printing because the risk of running the combo yourself and having the Agent player stick Agent and use half of the combo from your deck and half of the combo from another deck (maybe even their own) is so great that Consult lines cannot be run. Doomsday cannot be run. Power Monolith. Dramatic Scepter. LED Breach. No 2 card combo is acceptable to run in a world where Opposition Agent is in the meta as Scheming Symmetry tutor to win on the spot. Yes, Scheming Symmetry becomes a must run card in the meta post Opposition Agent printing, yes, Praetor's Grasp rises in value, yes, decks running no win conditions of their own at all can, and likely will, be dominant decks.

Consult Oracle is already a marginal combo in true competitive settings and Agent completely negates it entirely. There is no contest in which card has more impact on EDH between Oracle (virtually no impact at all) and Agent (the most impact any card has ever and likely will ever have).

November 5, 2020 8:52 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #15

Omniscience_is_life

Forgot to mention, in true competitive settings Oracle resolves quite a lot. The most common and effective response to that line was and still is Angel's Grace and competent competitive players are very keen to bait opposing Oracle into Consult combos just so they can cast AG and watch the Oracle player lose on the spot for having tried a very risky, less than ideal line of play. You can ask Synergy about some of the games we've played as he's seen me do this before. AG is the best response to a number of game winning lines in the current meta and a very viable first tutor target in certain situations to simply force a greedy, less skilled opponent to lose for trying something greedy and less skilled.

November 5, 2020 8:57 p.m.

Wait... let's back up. How are the Opposition Agent players supposed to win again?

November 5, 2020 9 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #17

How are you supposed to win? Opposition Agent decks don't even need a win condition of their own technically, not as long as they can protect the Agent.

Obviously this would be a weakness and a flaw that could be exploited in deck construction technique, so I don't recommend it. But I'd be lying to you if I said I didn't have a mono Black Maralen deck with no win conditions of any sort that was currently undeafeated in playtesting (in only 6 or 7 games, so that's not saying much).

If you run a deck with win conditions at all the Agent can and will use them against you.

November 5, 2020 9:03 p.m.

But... can't I just Angel's Grace in response to you using my wincon? :)

November 5, 2020 9:05 p.m.

SynergyBuild says... #19

The issue is that it's hard to always have AG consistently in hand w/o a tutor, which OA completely nullifies.

November 5, 2020 9:07 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #20

If you had it in hand before I played Agent and Maralen? Yeah. Sure. But then I also discarded everyone's hands or at the least used targeted discard to find out if I could go for it so the likelihood of that working out for you is... dubious... at best.

November 5, 2020 9:08 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #21

If you had it in hand before I played Agent and Maralen? Yeah. Sure. But then I also discarded everyone's hands or at the least used targeted discard to find out if I could go for it so the likelihood of that working out for you is... dubious... at best.

SynergyBuild and yeah, the tutor nullification aspect is huge in this discussion.

November 5, 2020 9:09 p.m.

SynergyBuild says... #22

MagicMarc actually that's sort of my fear. Right now this was made as an answer to tutors, but the answer is so pushed, the benefits and hate so powerful, that the answer seemingly needs better answers, because this is an answer that can be cast relatively cheaply, at instant speed, getting more copies of itself or protection for itself. I don't think it's unbeatable, but meta-warping for sure. My issue is that when tutoring is unviable in other formats, card draw is the go-to, but with the release of Hullbreacher it seems that avenue may be paved with spiked asphalt and I am just concerned these answers are getting out of hand is all.

November 5, 2020 9:13 p.m.

EleshNornsFs says... #23

I think it is too soon too call. It will be incredibly annoying and frustrating, but I simply don't see it as being absolutely the most broken card in EDH. It is not so broken at a glance that it needs a preemptive ban. Calling for one is shortsighted and impatient. If it truly is that big of an issue, the ban will come quickly, and if not, no action needs to be taken. Letting the card play out for a month won't end the format.

November 5, 2020 9:16 p.m.

Azdranax says... #24

Alternatively, we could wait to see how it impacts our game play and win percentages when being played in our pods before we condemn it to exile. One thing is certain, whoever casts it is going to be playing Archenemy with everyone else at the table.

November 5, 2020 9:19 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #25

EleshNornsFs

Folks said that about Flash and yet it stuck around for years (and wasn't even that good a combo to begin with as there were strategies that absolutely dominated Flash Hulk piles the community was far to slow to pick up on). I thought the Flash banning was a good decision because the card warped the meta. Not because the card was too powerful, but because the meta warped around it to a degree that decks must be designed to contain it or answers to it, or both more often than not. I thought the banning of Paradox Engine was a good choice, not because the card was too powerful, but because the card warped the meta around it. Decks needed to contain answers to it, the engine itself, and more likely both.

Opposition Agent is not only a card that will warp the meta far beyond what either of those two cards used as an example was capable of, but it will also be MORE powerful in action than either of those cards were as a combination of cards when the Agent is a SINGLE card. It's combo elements are all the cards in all opposing players decks, it's mana efficient, uber card slot efficient, and uber play pattern efficient. No card used in EDH has ever been more powerful, and that is not hyperbole. It's a statement of fact.

I assume the general prevailing opinion will be to let things shake out for a bit and see how the meta shapes up, but, as always, I expect to be 2 years ahead of the curve here as I always seem to be when it comes to things cEDH. I'm not here to convince any one that this is what should happen. I'm here to post this so that when the inevitable finally does occur I've got something to point to and say "see, told ya so again".

November 5, 2020 9:25 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #26

Azdranax

Indeed they will be playing Archenemy. Only the coalition this time around won't have access to anything in their deck to do anything about the situation. The resources they'll have access to are the ones they had in hand when the situation resolved and that's it. Dunno bout you, but I'd prefer to be the Archenemy in this scenario.

November 5, 2020 9:27 p.m.

MindAblaze says... #27

Just blow up all their mana sources so they never have three mana, or win before they have three mana. Come on.

November 5, 2020 9:29 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #28

MindAblaze

You might be interested in my Golos Darth Vader deck... It subscribes 100% to this philosophy. I will warn you that it will not be a deck to play often or you'll very soon find no one left to play with ever again.

November 5, 2020 9:30 p.m.

pskinn01 says... #29

I have several decks that this does little to limit their ability to win. It does not stop combo decks from combing, it only stops them from tutoring. The rules committee is concerned with the casual players mainly. Once you get to high powered decks, the rules committee don't give a care. I'm more worried about the extra stop more draws card.

Saying players in casual don't play win cons without having protection shows bias on your part. I have decks that range from cEDH to precons with budget upgrades. I have found that true casual players (those who play for the social aspect) run limited interactions beyond what you could find in a budget upgraded precon. And it also depends on the budget of the playgroup - most of the people in the store I play at don't own pact of negation, and even fewer own a force of will - so early game interactions won't have protections until you get into higher budget play groups.

Except for my cEDH decks, I generally play powered down decks that are fun to play but are beatable with interaction. As I have a very large collection and understand not everyone has the same access to cards, I tend to play decks that are more theme based than strategy based. In other words more casual decks (even if high on budget).

November 5, 2020 9:33 p.m.

SynergyBuild says... #30

EleshNornsFs I have done a fair amount of testing so far, but obviously that's with current meta, not what answers people will run after. My main thing is I don't like forcing metagames to shift with each update in such an old format.

Azdranax well, it's powerful enough I have actually wanted to do a bunch of testing, and for the last ~38 games it's been greatly impactful, and we have optimized the best play pattern being attempting to find more copies of OA with the first OA. The decks we mostly tested were the following:

Najeela, T&T, Tasigur, Kenrith, Yisan, Zur, Kess, Ikra/Kraum, Tymna/Kraum, Golos, Akiri/Thrasios, Heliod, Maralen, K'rrik, Tinybones, Godo, Brago, Sygg, Anje, Tharr, Rielle, Gitrog, Vannifar, Chulane, Korvold, Pako, Elsha, Ukkima, Yidris, Thrasios/Smasher, Tymna/Tana, 5c Sisay, 1st Sliver, Oona.

With these, we saw an increase in winrate by 22% for players that resolve an Agent, and anyone who resolved multiple agents (or stolen them through the use of Gilded Drake) had a 100% winrate. It's notable that only 11 of the 38 games did this happen, but the fact that it was that high of a rate was relatively incredible.

Decks that ran Consult had a 13% higher rate than ones that didn't, though decks that resolved OA had a 6% higher rate per opponent with consult in their deck.

November 5, 2020 9:42 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #31

SynergyBuild Keep me updated on those statistics as you test stuff. I'm gonna want those numbers to draw on for theory crafting solutions to this problem.

November 5, 2020 9:49 p.m.

King_marchesa says... #32

Could Maralen of the Mornsong become a viable cedh deck now that opposition agent is a thing?

November 5, 2020 9:55 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #33

King_marchesa Not only is Maralen viable, it's legitimately top tier in a world with OP Agent in it. At least for now and until people start to figure out how to deal with it in mono black as a color that can't protect the line of play easily. But without any doubt Maralen + Agent is the single most powerful thing you can do in EDH once OP Agent hits shelves.

November 5, 2020 9:58 p.m.

SynergyBuild says... #34

King_marchesa the goal isn't to tutor up agent with it, but to tutor agent, then play both. Jeweled Lotus does a ton for that!

I agree that it works well, and could easily be top tier like jaymc1130 and I have seen from theorycrafting and minor testing. My only downside is that the wincons are slim. Luckily Maralen forces a demonic tutor for each opponent, so while they have a commander and hand, you have one card from each opponent each turn, which is sort of the inverse of archenemy. It also works with lands and the such too, so the lock is pretty powerful, the downside is that Maralen can't protect itself or Agent very well until it starts stealing a few cards, to use as protection. I'd be concerned about Abrupt Decay most, and would expect the deck to be meta until a lot more spot removal is being run.

November 5, 2020 10:02 p.m.

hejtmane says... #35

So much over reaction will it change the CEDH meta sure but like they have with lots of broken cards they learn to play around them. The two biggest cedh you tube content creators spike feeders and playing with power both say yes this is a strong card and will be a cedh format staple and the format will have to learn to play around the card.

Then lets talk Hullbreacher they already deal with a similar card in cedh someone plays a Wheel of Fortune or Windfall and then someone flashes in Notion Thief everyone else discards their hand and the other person draws a ton of cards.

CEDH will be fine and the lower the power level the less effective opposition agent is because how few tutors are run in the lower power levels.

Aven Mindcensor is already a staple cedh card now agent is just a better black version that will see play.

People need to stop trying to ban cards because they hate them.

Guess what Opposition Agent is a format warping card that is great at the higher levels the card changes the meta which is fine cards do this all the time.

Hell I can not wait to pounce on my group when they crack a fetchland with one. We play at a mid tier power level so they will groan and then kill me and then I will laugh all the way to my demise because it was funny.

November 5, 2020 10:02 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #36

SynergyBuild I was mostly relying on the inevitablity of Maralen slowly killing off opponents 3 life a turn if I couldn't assemble a faster win. Just play Necropotence and I was immune to the life loss but opponent's are assured to drain out over time without ever seeing another card while I get access to all the things. So I guess "no win condition" was a bit of an exaggeration, but no one thinks of Maralen drain as the win condition, ya know?

November 5, 2020 10:07 p.m.

SynergyBuild says... #37

hejtmane My issue is that Aven Mindcensor can't get other people's Aven Mindcensor's, so that when you kill the first and use the tutors you stopped playing when looking for interaction they steal a counterspell to protect the stolen Aven Mindcensor.

One card makes you lose some of the options. It turns Demonic Tutor into Shimmer of Possibility, a much worse card, Opposition Agent counters it, then searches your deck, then takes the best card from it, then puts it into a zone that's nearly impossible to interact with, and has a better body. It's like comparing Mana Leak to Mana Drain.

November 5, 2020 10:10 p.m.

I don't think the card needs a preemptive ban as it needs to be played first more than just a couple groups, but I disagree with those saying just shock it. I mean come on if u that actually worked everyone would play a deck of all removal. Sometimes removal/counters don't work.

November 5, 2020 10:15 p.m.

SynergyBuild says... #39

I_Want_To_PlayAllTheDecks I agree it's probably a really bad card for the format, but honestly I don't imagine it will be banned, and I like the card, like PE, and I'd still run Leovold if possible.

November 5, 2020 10:21 p.m.

gavriel1136 says... #40

I'm gonna throw my hat in the ring here and say that Agent isn't gonna break EDH. Maybe those in cEDH who rely more heavily on tutoring, it will be an issue, sure. But for most people, in most decks, you have maybe what, 1, 2 tutors? And half of those are gonna be looking for lands.

Agent poses a threat that already has answers. We already have cards that steal your stuff off the stack. We already have things to stop ETBs, targeting, and triggered abilities. And above all, commander is inherently a 1v3 game. There is no silver bullet for 3 opposing decks with 3x the resources.

I dont LIKE Agent, but I dont see it as anything worse than a Rest in Peace to a graveyard deck; a highly niche silver bullet that doesn't even do anything against casual decks.

November 5, 2020 10:27 p.m.

hejtmane says... #41

SynergyBuild yes I said it was better and it is still no big deal at the higher levels of game play and is great for the cedh level it shakes up the meta. Since I play at a mid power tier in my group I like watching the cedh stuff so I follow the meta some what to see lines of play etc.

Then again I been in a Mindslaver lock in a game before yea great I played magic kind of but I always seemed to come out on the wrong end so some stealing a card from my tutor is no freaking big deal even my counter spell.

November 5, 2020 10:36 p.m. Edited.

jaymc1130 says... #42

gavriel1136

OP Agent doesn't need opponents to run tutors. It just needs to run tutors itself. First to find the Agent as this is the highest priority. But then to acquire Scheming Symmetry or perhaps Maralen, or both. Whatever. At that point the fate is written in stone. Whether opponents want to or not they will be tutoring up their own win conditions just to hand them over to an opponent who will beat them with their own cards. In the case of Maralen these players will now never draw cards nor will they be able to search for any cards and short of something like Necropotence (a card that is highly unlikely for the types of players you describe to be playing) will never see another card for the remainder of the game, period. As bad as OP Agent will be for cEDH, it will be 1000 times worse for players in casual settings because of just how dominant it is. It's not a card that's less of a problem for casual settings, it's a card that's so completely busted for competitive settings that it ruins the entire format and is significantly more disruptive in more casual settings where the types of play patterns and answers are even more limited. If the card costs 100 dollars on release then it's something that will be less of an issue for more casual groups as often the primary limiting factor is affordability. But this card will not be prohibitively expensive on release and will quickly climb in price post release because of how dominant it is. My advice: pick up a couple of extra copies when you buy one for your deck, sell them 2 or 4 or 6 months later when they've doubled in price and you get your copy for free essentially.

November 5, 2020 10:37 p.m.

RiotRunner789 says... #43

Dang this thread is long.

I don't know why OP thinks that the other three players can't get answers unless they tutor. That is a ridiculous position.

Yes this card sucks. Yes it should be banned. No it should not be banned immediately.

If you want it auto banned then refer to rule 0.

November 5, 2020 10:47 p.m.

hejtmane says... #44

Technically Maralen of the Mornsong been able to do a lockout in rakdos for ever with Stranglehold but this just makes it easier in mono black

November 5, 2020 10:50 p.m. Edited.

SynergyBuild says... #45

hejtmane I have found it harder to Tutor for enchantments, but my casual Nekusar list ran them, as janky as that sounds!

RiotRunner789 if Maralen is in play they can't draw, and he mentioned some corner cases too.

November 5, 2020 11:04 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #46

RiotRunner789

When OP Agent angles of attack are implemented properly then it's effect is layered with card draw limitation effects so that they do not get to draw extra cards and they do not get to tutor other cards. In 100 card singleton this is a death sentence lock out. If all of this resolves and is assembled then it means no opponents had answers in hand to immediately deal with it. There is now one turn cycle (precisely one in most situations) where they can draw exactly and only the top card of the deck (and not even this in situations including Maralen as the complementary lock piece) to find and answer before the game is in an unwinnable state. Players will not be able to ever effectively find an answer for this type of game state once it is reached before the game is concluded in victory for the player locking everyone else out.

If you don't like the terminology of players won't ever find answers then consider the following a more accurate revision of the statement: players in such a situation are so unlikely to find a solution to the problem in such a game state that they will tend to lose 99% of matches in which this game state is reached. Personally, quite frankly, I'm not concerned with the 1% scenarios or the 4 games in 1000 where the lock doesn't hold up because a player immediately top decked one of the 3 answers their deck contained. This occurrence isn't ever going to be statistically relevant and, as such, isn't worth consideration in the same way that trying to theorize a way to beat an opposing opening turn 1 first player to play consisting of Land, Mox, Crypt, Dark Ritual, Angel's Grace, Ad Nauseam isn't ever worthy of consideration.

November 5, 2020 11:09 p.m.

hejtmane says... #47

jaymc1130 yes you can bust Opposition Agent into a combo and win but at the higher level seen winota turn two kill a table with a combo or a turn two consolation win. EDH is a broken format there is so much dumb broken shit you can do in edh with lock outs staxs and so forth so yes you can play tutors that force people to tutor on ones that say may they can fail to find so this does limit the cards that work with force search. People going of the rails trying to band the card because it can do broken things is mind boggling Maralen of the Mornsong can be the biggest issue because it is a lockout but I pointed all ready shes been able to do it in rakdos deck for a long time so it is not a new line just an easier line of play.

Everyone talking about blowing up lower tables with game play of forced tutors is just pumb stomping and you can already do this with so many broken decks and commanders.

Lets be real yes you can go abuse lower powered tables with this card but I can do that with underworld breach and many more cards available in edh.

November 5, 2020 11:32 p.m.

Azdranax says... #48

jaymc1130 and SynergyBuild, although I’m certainly in the wait and see camp on the ultimate impact to the format, I definitely appreciate the depth of the conversation here as well as the addition statistics for testing, to date. Along the agent line for wincons, would you expect Dark Deal to be added to the 100 to effectively guarantee an unbreakable board lock for Maralen/Agent?

November 5, 2020 11:42 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #49

hejtmane

The difference with OP Agent and cards like Moxen, OG Duals, Imperial Seals, FoWs and what not when it comes to blowing up more casual tables is stark. Price tag.

Those cards can defeat such tables easily for the a financial investment cost of often 100s of dollars per card.

OP Agent can do the same using exclusively 10$ and less cards. If you wanted to get pricey and throw in one or two 50$ cards it's still very much within the price range of the entirety of the MTG community.

Massive difference.

Again, I'm not posting this thread to try and get the card banned or anything of that nature. I'm using the thread to state, now, before any one else, that this card is so problematic that it should be banned preemptively. This way, in the future, when people say "well no one could have seen how bad this card would be coming" I can point to this post and say, "no, it was dead obvious that the card was going to be terrible for the format right from the start".

November 5, 2020 11:44 p.m.

jaymc1130 says... #50

Azdranax

I've tooled around with Dark Deal in a number of shells focused more on the discard aspect as the means of establishing a lock and while I did include it in my initial incarnation of Maralen yesterday (as the deck runs a Tinybones/Grimiore/Waste Not/Words of Waste secondary lock out set up) I've ultimately cut it for the time being in testing. Not because I don't think it will be effective in such a strategy, but because I've found the effectiveness in general to be relatively mediocre and I want to test some other options (some of which have been much worse, a couple that have been roughly similar, and none yet that stand out to take that card slot with ease).

November 5, 2020 11:48 p.m.

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