Unban Tree of Tales!
Modern forum
Posted on Feb. 11, 2016, 4:10 a.m. by Dorotheus
There is, at this point, NO reason for the card to be banned as it functions. Techincally Darksteel Citadel is better than Tree of Tales for the obvious reason of indestructible.
I understand why it's banned and what has kept it banned. But would the Green Tree alone be enough to REALLY do anything? Or would it open up other artifact strategies since the current Affinity doesn't use green?
Let's have a serious discussion about this.
People that said Golgari Grave-Troll would do too much in modern if unbanned. And we haven't even really see it do anything too productive.
I can think of one card Affinity would run, but it's lists are already so tight as is.
I think it's time to give Green Tree a chance. The other 4 can stay banned forever as far as I'm concerned.
February 11, 2016 4:24 a.m.
Td:Lr You clearly don't know anything about Arcbound Ravager.
Seriously, Arcbound is one of the strongest cards ever printed in magic, and these lands make it disgustingly broken. it doesn't matter what color they are, it doesn't matter whether they are indestructible or not. the only reason they left us with Darksteel Citadel is because of the fact that it taps for colorless only, which limits what you can do with the creature/spell base. True, green may be the weakest color to add to the deck, but that doesn't make this land addition any less effective.
If you banned Darksteel Citadel, I think you probably could unban Tree of Tales. but you simply can't allow both to exist in the deck. and as vault said, I'm sure affinity players would find something worth running in green. Maybe Become Immense? who knows.
February 11, 2016 4:25 a.m.
I don't appreciate denouncing my knowledge of the game before asking me and assuming. That's arrogant and selfish. I am pretty understanding and versed in Affinity, Ravager is an old card at this point and has always been a power house since it was printed.
Hardened Scales was the card I was thinking of, but Affinity already has access to all 5 colors most of the time, so I think the color discussion part of that is moot.
February 11, 2016 4:28 a.m.
It's not the color aspect that's important, Darksteel Citadel proves that. It's the fact that the deck gets another 4 free artifacts. It probably wouldn't play any green spells at all, just take advantage of the fact that it can play 8 Darksteel Citadel instead of just 4. The deck is already gross as is, this would make it bonkers.
February 11, 2016 4:31 a.m.
Current affinity lists run approximately:
4x Blinkmoth Nexus
4x Darksteel Citadel
4x Glimmervoid
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Basic (Island or Swamp)
Is it worth cutting Glimmervoid? Is it worth not running any basic? Does the deck just add the 4 Trees just to get potential artifacts even when the entirety of the main list is artifacts anyways?
What would you do?
February 11, 2016 4:37 a.m.
I can totally get behind if Tree got unbanned that Citadel would have to be banned btw.
I just really want to discuss this.
February 11, 2016 4:38 a.m.
I don't play Affinity, never have and never will, so I'm not too well-versed in the makeup of the deck, but I'd probably cut 2 Glimmervoid, 1 Blinkmoth Nexus, and the basic. Maybe all 4 Blinkmoth, I'm not sure how powerful it is.
And it's totally fair to unban the tree if Citadel were banned, but that seems so completely unnecessary. It would just make the deck even more vulnerable to Shatterstorm without really changing anything else in the meta. But there is just no way Modern can handle Affinity with 8 artifact lands.
February 11, 2016 4:41 a.m. Edited.
Affinity lands are tight as is. You don't want to gut nexuses, you can't cut void, there is no point to cutting Darksteel, and maybe you replace the basic?
Tree could be unbanned but if it doesn't do anything for affinity and it doesn't help any other deck besides BUG Tezz what is the point?
February 11, 2016 4:42 a.m.
I don't see why you need Glimmervoid when you have Tree of Tales. the spell package has always been flexible to unneeded in the deck, and the creature base works very well mono-grey, despite the recent resurgence of Master of Etherium, which was more of a PT meta call if anything. the deck still has Springleaf Drum and Mox Opal to get all the other colored sources they need.
I think it just really gets down to how strong Arcbound Ravager + Cranial Plating are, and the fact that 8 artifact lands in a deck would just make the deck far too consistant. we'd have almost guaranteed opals turn 1, and even more so with Etched Champion turn 2 or three.
February 11, 2016 4:46 a.m.
LeaPlath To allow a card that doesn't need to be banned to be played, and let players explore the card and see if it opens a new deck, or just powers a currently already powered deck.
No one ACTUALLY knows what it would do, but it is the least necessarily banned card on the modern banned list (give and take arguments for Splinter Twin's controversial actuality).
So, GoofyFoot, if Tree of Tales were unbanned, would it be Darksteel Citadel that were more likely get banned, or Mox Opal?
February 11, 2016 4:55 a.m.
Darksteel feels like the ban to me. Mox banning would make the deck soooo much worse. Still playable, but a shadow of it's former self. and I don't think affinity is a deck that needs a downgrade. it's strong, it's fast, but its also easily disruptable via Shatterstorm, Creeping Corrosion, Stony Silence, and whatever else people use. The three I mentioned specifically shut the deck down hard, and usually aren't recoverable.
I actually agree completely it's the least necessary ban on the list, but only because of the color it provides. I don't want to sound like a broken record, but 8 artifact lands in the deck is just too strong, it's really that simple. Darksteel Citadel is just a better land for the deck, for those playing and those playing against.
February 11, 2016 5:11 a.m.
unbanning 1 card to ban another, all of which really only have use in one deck, seems like a silly idea to me. I appriciate your point of questioning bans and possibly exploring new deck ideas, but think about if had been the other way round. I think people would question more why darksteel would be banned over tree.
and the thing I think a lot of people (not necessarily you) miss when they question ban list cards is that banned cards, which allow for some fun casual exploration, generally just make better decks even more oppressive. Summer Bloom is probably the best example of this. sure, there is plently of room to brew with it, but the explosive turn 2 deck is clearly far too strong to allow the card to stay around.
February 11, 2016 5:21 a.m. Edited.
JexInfinite says... #16
Artifact lands are stupid. It's good they're banned. They should not come off the list. Granted, Mox Opal is also stupid, so perhaps that should go too?
February 11, 2016 5:26 a.m. Edited.
GoofyFoot, if Tree were unbanned just entirely.
Do you think Jund and Junk decks would run it for Tarmogoyf, and do you think other decks would run it and would it give them any competitive contention?
February 11, 2016 5:30 a.m.
As a Jund/junk player, no. it's not fetchable, it has minimal to no utility, and the additional type is only marginally beneficial. goyfs don't need to be bigger than 5/6 realistically (land, creature, sorcery, instant, planeswalker), as that already puts them ahead of Siege Rhino, their primary staredown. all of these cards types are already run in those decks, and if any of the other types hit the yard, that's just value. I'm sure there are casual lists which wouldn't say no to running it, but I doubt it would improve the lists much (the best card I can think of to "combo" with it is Master Transmuter).
Again, 8 artifact lands makes affinity far too consistent and strong, irregardless of the current meta's color preferences. casual appeal would go up, but casual appeal has nothing to do with tournament rules, which is why the card is, and will stay, banned.
February 11, 2016 6:04 a.m.
branston567 says... #19
I would have thought they would go in instead of the Springleaf Drums, the lands are so powerful, they just make one of the best decks (and, other than eldrazi, arguably the most likely deck to have something banned) even stronger, it doesn't add anything new to the meta either, it just makes affinity even stronger which is not what needs to happen.
February 11, 2016 6:07 a.m.
branston567 Springleaf Drum doesn't count towards your land limit, and it gives situationally useless creatures/blockers relevance. it also allows more consistent turn-1 2-drops, via opal, drum, ornithopter/memnite, and land. Glimmervoid is the 4th best land in the deck by a long shot, and it's downside post-Creeping Corrosion can be devastating w/o Darksteel Citadel.
February 11, 2016 6:38 a.m.
I think you're right in saying that it would be safe to unban, especially if Darksteel Citadel were banned in it's place. I think the issue is why would they unban the green one specifically over any of the other colored artifact lands?
I think we all understand that they can't ALL be unbanned, so from there you have to ask for what reason and under what circumstances any one of them would be unbanned when the others aren't.
February 11, 2016 6:52 a.m.
branston567 says... #22
GoofyFoot I don't get what you mean, how is a hand of Darksteel Citadel, Mox Opal, Memnite and Springleaf Drum any better than if you swapped the Springleaf Drum for Tree of Tales. You can still play a 2 drop on turn 1, Creeping Corrosion gets no better for you and your "situationally useless" creatures become a little more useless but they still count towards Cranial Plating and are still fodder for Arcbound Ravager. Tree of Tales makes the deck much more consistent and it is already one of the strongest in the format, that should point out that it should in no way be unbanned
February 11, 2016 10:30 a.m.
Maybe they'll ban Darksteel Citadel and make a Basic Artifact Land when we go to Vryn after Shadows Over Innistrad. Because that would be SOOO much better. xD (/jokes /sarcasm)
I kind of wish that they WOULD have unban it when Twin was banned, that way we could have seen it at PT and seen if it did anything with Eldrazi doing what it's doing.
February 11, 2016 2:17 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #24
The absolute only thing I can see Affinity running green for is Ancient Stirrings. That would be the only thing that I can viably think of off the top of my head as to what would happen if Tree of Tales was unbanned. It would then allow a deck that can unload their hand in 1 or 2 turns to reload with the exact threat they need. And then Arcbound Ravager gets to go off with an additional artifact as well as Cranial Plating seeing it as another artifact to assist in pumping. Also, it allows Mox Opal to be more easily maintained. So they can just run out their hand even more easily now and then get some way to find what they need at such a low cost that it matters! Hell no! I mean they already get the green from Glimmervoid and Mox Opal, but they need to run more artifacts to sustain them so they are unable to run all the green source requiring cards.
February 11, 2016 2:46 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #25
Also, Affinity doesn't need the Tree to be good, it is already and still putting up great results as is. Stop trying to make a great deck better!
February 11, 2016 2:48 p.m.
Dorotheus - Frankly, I'm confused.
The real questions are, "Why Tree of Tales?" - Why not the other 4? - Why does 
need this and not 
/
/
/
? - What is it about this one, in particular, that makes you want to play it? - Do you have a deck idea/design that you are thinking, "Tree of Tales would do wonders for this deck?"
If one of the 5 can be unbanned, chances are all 5 could be.
February 11, 2016 3:30 p.m.
This isn't about making Affinity better or weaker, and this isn't because I personally want to build a deck just for Tree of Tales.
As stated previously, aside from discussion of Twin's true power level and it's controversy, the weakest card on the modern ban list is Tree of Tales, as LeaPlath pointed out, if the card does nothing, and brings nothing to the format, why unban it? Because that's just the case, the card doesn't need to be banned because it alone is not strong enough. If any of the other 5 were unbanned Affinity WOULD be able to use that color (especially Red) to cast things the decks are already utilizing.
We've already discussed that Jund and Junk probably won't use Tree of Tales just for Goyf.
And it's very up in the air here on facts, if Tree of Tales WOULD make affinity better, however. Why run Tree? Does it really make the deck more consistent? What do you cut (already discussed), and is it really any better than what they are running?
February 11, 2016 9:03 p.m.
It should be pointed out that, if Robots wanted to use , it already would. - With Glimmervoid, Springleaf Drum and Mox Opal, Robots and use any color. - The reason it currently dosen't use Ancient Stirrings is not for lack of . - It simply doesn't want a card like that to end up in it's opening hand, as it breaks up it explosive synergy.
I'm not certain Robots would want to use any of the currently banned Artifact Lands. - The Blinkmoth lands, Glimmervoid and Darksteel Citadel are exactly where Robots wants it's mana base. Replacing any of it's lands would be a detriment to the deck. - If it wanted additional 'free' artifacts, it would just run more Welding Jar main.
- Blinkmoth Nexus/Inkmoth Nexus - Evasive creatures, resistant to removal, while increasing Artifact count.
- Glimmervoid - Mana of any color allows the deck to use/splash whatever cards it needs. Sideboard is very limited without this land.
- Darksteel Citadel - Indestructible allows the deck to continue after an artifact board wipe, keeping itself and Glimmervoid alive. - Also useful if the deck uses Ensoul Artifact.
- Swamp or Island (1x Basic) - This could possibly be replaced, but would not make the deck 'too powerful'. - It's partially in there due to prevalence of Path to Exile and Ghost Quarter.
So, no... I don't think unbanning any of these would currently 'break' the deck. - If there is a reason to keep them banned, it's not this deck. And there's certainly no difference in unbanning just the one.
February 12, 2016 8:31 a.m. Edited.
Harashiohorn says... #31
I mean no offense when I ask, have any of you played or seen affinity played in legacy before? Tree of Tales pushes modern affinity to a closer playstyle of its legacy counterpart. And the key card is Disciple of the Vault. If you unban Tree of Tales affinity can easily chuck say Blinkmoth Nexus out the window and bring back the Disciple of the Vault, Salvage Titan, Arcbound Ravager package. And yes, that really truly is a better deck than the current affinity deck because its doesn't care about you trying to destroy its board state, since it's already blowing up said state on it's own. Current Modern Affinity is to old-school affinity what current storm is to what Dragonstorm storm was, and while Tree of Tales won't restore it to its full glory, it means the sac and win strategies are viable again since you have 8 auto-artifact affinity enabling lands which is considerably more consistent. I thought we all agreed to lock Fling-Atog Affinity in a box an not talk about it...
-Fulcrum says... #2
The current Affinity doesn't play green because the Tree is banned. If it were unbanned, Affinity would start playing green. Who knows what for, but this is a massive can of nope.
February 11, 2016 4:20 a.m.