|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
|Promo Set (000)||None|
Combos Browse all
Destroy target nonlegendary creature.
Price & Acquistion Set Price Alerts
Cast Down Discussion
4 hours ago
Cast Down is interesting, i like it in a vacuum... but i find it will often want to be killing legends.
22 hours ago
I think I'm persuaded by your argument Oloro_Magic, mostly because I've had firsthand experience playing against Thalia, Guardian of Thraben running a list of entirely noncreature spells and it is awful. Cast Down is out and Fatal Push is in!
1 day ago
DankStompy The argument for Path to Exile here is anything but silly as the deck we are evaluating runs both we are not comparing them here but rather evaluating a decklist with access to Path to Exile and what that means for the deck, and my list is not of cards that Push can hit, the list is of the most played creatures in the modern format based off of metashare, the list is entirely relevant seeing how your argument boils down to "push can't hit some stuff" and yes push can't hit some things, but when evaluating the modern meta 47 of the top 50 most played creatures are hit by push. I'm not saying Cast Down cannot hit these cards but rather it is the strictly worse option as the two cost versus the one cost, there is a reason things like Doom Blade are not played (and before you say it yes the restriction on this card is far worse than Cast Down however it is a solid example of black removal). There is also a reason that Fatal Push is the 8th most played card in modern with a 13.74% dominance, it is just the most efficient piece of black removal in a format that emphasizes being mana efficient. This in no way means that Cast Down is unplayable but if deciding between running one of either Push or Cast Down the decision should always be push bar a meta that is entirely focused on big mana strategies or Madcap Experiment type decks as you mention earlier. It could potentially be a viable option in a role similar to Terminate in other decks as hard removal seeing how this list cannot play Terminate, but only in that capacity.
I also feel you are not giving burn the respect it deserves, Goblin Guide sure has the downside, but it can get out of hand quick, I'm glad to hear you have never struggled against it but that doesn't mean that it isn't a threat, imagine the line of this deck when they turn one guide, you push in response to the trigger if you like and buy yourself some damage on turn one and can immediately play Search for Azcanta turn two without having to hold up Cast Down.
I'm curious how much control you play? The fetchland argument is one of the reasons that Fatal Push is so good in modern, it's very easy to trigger revolt with them, sure this doesn't predicate a revolt trigger every turn but modern is not a format where everything is over 2 mana anyway, again this is an efficient format with many low cost creatures, enough fetchlands allows for smart play with push, they are an incredibly good way to trigger revolt, an easy way to trigger revolt and that has been a known fact since push took modern by storm.
And speaking of storm, as the player behind this deck has indicated Storm is a deck that is a part of their meta and with that in mind Cast Down already is worse as it cannot hit Baral, Chief of Compliance, push allows a one mana option to beat Baral which can be relied on even on the draw whereas even in a hypothetical where Cast Down could hit Baral you would need to take your turn two off to remove him mainphase or risk just losing on the spot. Additionally Cast Down cannot hit Thalia, Guardian of Thraben seen in the humans decks this author has again indicated they face, a deck like humans can easily win turn 4 so having Cryptic Command readily available is a big deal, and having access to removal is even bigger, on that turn 4 with Cast Down you would only be able to remove one creature, with Fatal Push as many as three in a perfect scenario, though assuming thalia stays then at the very least potentially two, removing Thalia, and unlocking additional pushes or paths. Cast Down limits your options against modern's best deck in this scenario, a deck that one will actually face on a regular basis on the competitive scene. Honestly, your entire argument is a bit ludicrous as to why the less efficient removal spell is better, Cast Down is great in standard but its too slow for modern as primary removal and outclassed by Fatal Push except in very niche situations where, if you find yourself facing down a Platinum Emperion something has already gone wrong for you to allow that to happen as the control player.
I know its impossible for me to get through to you however please be open to argument as I will be with yours, Push has established itself as the premier piece of removal in the modern format and that wont change because of a less efficient card from a new set, in a format like modern 1-mana is always better than 2 when it comes to removal. The only truly threatening card that push can't hit that is commonly played (a high metashare) is Hollow One, which needs to be prepared for, but given the explosiveness of that deck is better dealt with by sweepers.
1 day ago
Oloro_Magic: you're just not getting it dude. a list of things that Fatal Push can hit means nothing. i could easily make a list of commonly played modern creatures that Cast Down can hit, that Fatal Push cannot. and that list would mean a whole lot more than yours. you can't rely on "only" fetchlands to trigger revolt. thats just silly. the argument of Path to Exile is also just silly. not every deck runs white. we're comparing a black card to a black card, so don't derail the conversation by trying to compare a black card to a white card. a turn 1 Goblin Guide is also hardly relevant. for one thing, thats a very small percentage of games. i'm also just not impressed by goblin guide. i've never lost to anyone who uses one. the extra lands just help me too much for me to be worried about it.
1 day ago
Instead of Cast Down I would use cards such as Cast Out or Seal Away since Hazoret the Fervent is very strong in the current standard meta game. At least build a sideboard to include these additions since you don’t want to lose against Gods. e.g.The Scarab God
1 day ago
DankStompy ArchonBlue Cast Down is simply the worse option. Dank I don't know what meta you are playing in and it might be the right choice for you but Cast Down is in no way strictly better than Fatal Push. Push is and continues to be a format defining card and if we take a closer look at the top played creatures in modern (As per MTGGoldfish):
Of the above only Street Wraith cannot be pushed and even then no one is hard casting a Street Wraith in modern. In fact the first instance of non-pushable creatures comes at number 22 in Gurmag Angler and number 23 in Hollow One and then the only other card in the top 50 in this group is Primeval Titan at number 42.
Revolt is incredibly easy to trigger with an ideal manabase of fetches and shocks, I've never had an issue triggering revolt in modern. The debate here largely comes down to efficiency, Push answers turn one Goblin Guide and a quick affinity start immediately, Cast Down simply can't, maybe there is room as a one-of but not in favor of Push, but more so in a role similar to Terminate or Murderous Cut. The speed of modern though demands push, and will continue to for a very long time, one mana removal is just more efficient, and anything that can't be pushed can be Path to Exile.
Also Esper Charm is sneakily the best card in this deck, its removal, discard, and card draw wrapped into one, it does everything control wants with added flexibility. With the fetch-shock manabase its relatively easy to set up as well without being difficult to cast.
1 day ago
Yea until legendary creatures become rampant in Modern I'm sticking with Cast Down. Why would you recommend 4 4 Esper Charm? It seems kind of hard to cast. My meta is kinda what you would expect, Hollow One, 5C Humans, Storm, Blue Moon, Jund, Goblins, Burn, Collected Company, Scapeshift.
1 day ago
JackTheWaterBear, thank you for your suggestion. Universal Solvent's activation cost is really steep, but it is the only targeted removal Mono-Black has for noncreature permanents. I'll play around with it throughout my next several games and see if it performs well enough.
Bewarden, thank you for the upvote and for the suggestion. It's a card I've also been considering now for some time. It will most likely take the slot of a different spot removal card. Fatal Push and Cast Down have both been very underwhelming in this format, where revolt triggers don't occur often enough and decks are packed with powerful singleton legendaries.
Again, thank you both for your suggestions and I will continue tweaking the deck until it's smoother than a fresh jar of Skippy. It did surprisingly well today against Tatyova, Slimefoot, and Ghalta in a multiplayer match.