Modern Horizons Light
Modern forum
Posted on July 31, 2023, 12:11 p.m. by Icbrgr
I am curious if players would be interested in a Modern format which included cards that Modern horizons sets have retroactively made old standard cards legal into the format but excluded cards that were created out of the aether.
These would be example of cards that would be legal because they were previously existing cards that went through standard at some point.
would be examples of cards that would not be allowed because they never went through standard.
The follow-up question would be does Magic the Gathering have a preexisting cardpool that is not on the reserved list to create such a format and keep it healthy/diverse? And could this be done while keeping Modern and Legacy/vintage separate identities? In theory in such a format we would certainly lose Force of Negation but could possibly get access to Force of Will if it were to be printed or made legal.
I have always loved the idea of Modern because it was a non rotating format that I could find a home for both old and new cards... but at the same time I wasnt an active player/investor in the very beginnings of magic... I always felt gatekept from paper legacy play because I would never be able to in a fiscally responible way get access to all the tools available to me due to the reserved list... and I respect that for what it is.... for a longtime I felt gatekept from Entering Modern simply because of the price of Fetchlands and thank god they have been meaningfully reprinted so now are far more accesible.
But With Modern horizons it just feels sad knowing that Modern is ultimatly a soft rotating format based on the whims of whatever comes in the next Modern Horizons set....or some set like the Lord of the rings set whichj just comes into modern for some reason.
This is kinda what is pushing me towards Pioneer.... but I just cant help but feel frustrated.... Dont get me wrong I honestly don't hate Modern Horizons in its entirety I was really happy about getting access to old magic cards and that felt fun and cool to me...like a taste of getting into legacy or something.... but something about legacy I NEVER had interest in was random spinoff product entering the format.... Commander cards...Universes beyond cards... Planchase cards ect ect.
Currently the top 3 deck in Modern
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The One Ring Tron
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Crashing footfalls Cascade
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Rakdos Scam
I think the thing that would really outright kill this idea would be lack of deck diversity or the format being solved.
Modern Horizons came out in 2019... I think the decks I remember at the timeframe were Mardu pyromancer....Heliod feeder....KCI...Shadow...Izzet Phoenix...
Modern Horizons Changed the landscape quite a bit for various reasons (and not all of them are bad)... but I wonder what the format would shape up to be... back then we had things like Mox Opal and Faithless Looting... im not at all saying i want those cards back but with the new cards in and some of those cards out its an interesting thought.
July 31, 2023 4:24 p.m.
wallisface says... #4
The biggest issue I had with modern pre-MH2 was that the game played out very much like “two ships passing in the night” - everyone was just largely goldfishing game 1, and then games 2-3 were just a race to see who could get their sideboard-hate into play first.
I personally love the state of modern post-MH2, as far as the format has become a LOT more interactive, and being able to make competitive-brews feels a LOT more viable. But I also get that the change in format has been jarring for some.
I think you would get a lot more traction doing a simpler approach to your format, where you just don’t allow cards from supplemental sets (mh1,mh2,lotr). Having caveats for allowing some cards from those sets just muddies the water unnecessarily, feels arbitrary, and doesn’t help future-proof anything when wotc inevitably prints something stupid like Dark Ritual in MH3.
July 31, 2023 4:45 p.m.
Lmao....yes something like Dark Ritual would be obnoxious.... but hopefully that would be met with the same fate as Simian Spirit Guide.
I definitely agree with your "two ships passing in the night" sentiment... but at the same time the ban list looks a lot different now too... which I also recognize kinda complicates this format suggestion because im sure many would want there free mana/other spells back...Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis is a silent hero for booting out gross things lol... but it makes the ban list for modern maybe not suitable for a clean transition to this theoretical format.
On the other hand I think I agree with you about just outright banning "straight to modern sets"... that does sound cleaner/easier.... overall would certainly need more refinement and insight from better better minds to make it fair and balanced but in the spirit of my intentions of my proposal.
July 31, 2023 5:13 p.m.
I'm sympathetic but ultimately I think you might be better suited by playing Premodern. Even assuming that you removed the Horizons sets and LOTR, you're still going to be dealing with Companions, Uro, Oko, Field of the Dead, Mystic Sanctuary, Omnath, Tibalt's Trickery, Thassa's Oracle... I think that the rising tide hasn't just been from the straight-to-Modern sets but they have provided extremely crucial interaction and "fair" threats. So I am skeptical that removing some busted stuff and leaving other busted stuff in won't really create the change that's sought.
July 31, 2023 10:33 p.m.
@SpammyV Getting into Premodern is an interesting idea... I haven't really thought about or looked into that format before. Arent Lurrus of the Dream-Den, Mystic Sanctuary, Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath, Tibalt's Trickery, Oko, Thief of Crowns and Field of the Dead all Banned in Modern? Not saying that Omnath, Locus of Creation or Thassa's Oracle wouldn't be powerful; but most of what you said has already been addressed as problematic cards... I dont know if its a fact or just a rumor but I remember hearing when standard was going super crazy powerful WOTC said they were giving up on playtesting cards (at least for impact on eternal formats) before releasing them and would just ban them if they became problematic.
I agree with Modern Horizons providing good/crucial interaction... Force of Negation/Solitude are great... but when the opponent uses Violent Outburst and has a Force of Negation to protect it and I'm dealing with Crashing Footfalls/Living End I get big mad and big sad lol.... not that there wasn't nonsense before Modern Horizons or that I could say this theory format would be better in that regard; but the pursuit/goal of this concept was really just an opportunity to give the Original Modern a second chance to continue being what is was initially meant to be... sure we wouldn't have Solitude but eventually we got March of Otherworldly Light.
August 1, 2023 12:15 a.m.
I’m of the opinion all the free spells are part of the problem, not the solution.
They are powerful to the point it homegenizes decks within their colors. Right behind the one ring, you see the MH2 elementals for most played cards, in every color, even green, and that card is a hate card.
While in a vacuum they might do something “nice” for the format, they are still a “free” spell which just speeds up the format. I’ve seen modern shift from a 4 turn format to more of a 3 turn format in recent years. Not every game ends by turn 3, but a lot more decks are capable of consistently getting there (or setting up an un-winnable board state by then).
The power creep is real, and it just keeps getting pushed more, because that bolsters the companies sales and keeps their shareholders happy.
Honestly, I don’t see the mindset changing any time soon, so if you are more interested in the modern of past, it may be time to explore another format.
Formats were best when Wizards ignored them instead of trying to capitalize on the “money left on the table”
Look at what was done to EDH and Modern because they recognized the market there. Even what they tried (and thankfully failed) with the 30th anniversary set.
The only format I can’t see them messing up is Pauper, because they can’t really print commons as chase cards.
August 1, 2023 7:53 a.m.
@nbarry223 when you brought up EDH I instantly thought of cards like Deflecting Swat/Fierce Guardianship... I'm certain that if I feel the way I do about Modern then there are people that share that sentiment for EDH.
I don't know how much weight or how accurate my thoughts about cards going through standard first matters... but I figure if it goes through standard and people find the card annoying in standard (with at least just more eyes on the card and playing with the card) then it gives the community/game as a whole a better way to assess the card rather than surprise here is The One Ring! is it temporarily good? is it forever good? just deal with it for time to find out if the meta can adapt!
wallisface says... #2
It just feels like such a specific/niche idea that I don’t see it getting traction.
There is defo an audience for people who’d want to exclude all straight-to-modern sets.
July 31, 2023 2:55 p.m.