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|Commander / EDH||Legal|
|Commander: Rule 0||Legal|
Creature — Elemental
Whenever Spawnwrithe deals combat damage to a player, put a token into play that's a copy of Spawnwrithe.
4 months ago
707.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object’s characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The copiable values are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name, mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by its face-down status, and by “as . . . enters the battlefield” and “as . . . is turned face up” abilities that set power and toughness (and may also set additional characteristics). Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, and counters are not copied.
3) Copy effects are applied in layer 1, and then type change from Deep Freeze is applied in layer 4, color changing in layer 5, ability adding and removing in layer 6, and P/T setting in layer 7. The creature is a 0/4 blue and green spirit wall with defender and no other abilities.
613.1. The values of an object’s characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object. For a card, that means the values of the characteristics printed on that card. For a token or a copy of a spell or card, that means the values of the characteristics defined by the effect that created it. Then all applicable continuous effects are applied in a series of layers in the following order: 613.1a Layer 1: Rules and effects that modify copiable values are applied. 613.1b Layer 2: Control-changing effects are applied. 613.1c Layer 3: Text-changing effects are applied. See rule 612, “Text-Changing Effects.” 613.1d Layer 4: Type-changing effects are applied. These include effects that change an object’s card type, subtype, and/or supertype. 613.1e Layer 5: Color-changing effects are applied. 613.1f Layer 6: Ability-adding effects, keyword counters, ability-removing effects, and effects that say an object can’t have an ability are applied. 613.1g Layer 7: Power- and/or toughness-changing effects are applied.
4) Permeated Spawnwrithe. Both abilities trigger and go on the stack when combat damage is done. The active player's Spawnwrithe trigger will go on the stack first with the defending player's Permeating Mass on top of it. The stack will resolve FILO and the Spawnwrithe will be a copy of Permeating Mass by the time it's own copy ability resolves.
4 months ago
This is a lot of questions in one, but they all relate to layers and copy effects of two similar cards so I’m putting them together instead of a bunch of small questions.
1a) If a Permeating Mass is affected by Moonlace, are resulting clones also colorless?
1b) What about Spawnwrithe’s clones?
2a) If a Permeating Mass becomes enchanted by Witness Protection after dealing damage but before the trigger resolves, is the resulting creature also named Legitimate Businessman?
2b) What if it were Spawnwrithe?
3) If Permeating Mass deals damage to a creature enchanted by Deep Freeze style effect, what does the resulting creature look like?
4) If a Spawnwrithe tramples over a Permeating Mass, would the Spawnwrithe copy be a copy of the printed Spawnwrithe, or the Permeated Spawnwrithe?
11 months ago
Hey there, saw your post on /r/EDH. I like your deck list, and am always happy to see another Brokkos pilot. If you like Scute Swarm, I highly recommend checking out Spawnwrithe and Mist-Syndicate Naga as additional bodies that can generate mutated clone stacks.
If you're interested, I have a Brokkos deck on my profile. I think biggest differences in our lists are I'm running about 9 fewer creatures, and am running a bit more removal.
1 year ago
Hey, you've made a few good upgrades to the precon, nice Koma, Avenger, Rift and Birds. Do you own the cards in the maybeboard? All those cards are upgrades.
Some budget upgrades to consider:
- Tireless Provisioner --> Nissa's Expedition
- Biowaste Blob --> Ruxa, Patient Professor
- Champion of Lambholt --> Kaseto, Orochi Archmage
- Mimic Vat --> Sequence Engine
- Spawnwrithe --> Managorger Hydra
- Cackling Counterpart --> Mystic Genesis
- Fierce Empath --> Fractal Harness
- Risen Reef --> Golden Ratio
- Timeless Witness --> Terastodon
- Growth Spiral --> Commander's Insight
- Rimewood Falls --> Temple of the False God
Most of these suggestions is expanding on sources that can repeatedly create tokens with cards that have less converted mana cost (CMC). That's an area in the precon that's lacking which gives you more interaction with Twincasters earlier in the game.
Tireless Provisioner is ramp with treasures that has interaction with Twincasters. Biowaste Blob and Spawnwrithe can make token copies of themselves at your upkeep or by attacking/doing combat damage to a player. Champion of Lambholt cares about +1/+1 counters to make all creatures you control unblockable. Pair her with any source that can create creature tokens because she triggers whenever a creature token is created.
Mimic Vat can imprint an opponent's creature who dies which gives it real versatility in multiplayer Commander. Unfortunately, the token copy from Twincasters will also be exiled at the next end step therefore you don't get to keep the token copy unless you make another copy of the token then that copy won't be exiled. Risen Reef, Timeless Witness, Fierce Empath all have a strong ETB effect making them good creatures to make a token copy of. Rimewood Falls is a dual land that Farseek can search for instead of only a basic Island.
Good luck with your deck.
1 year ago
Hey, you're welcome, nice changes.
Is the +1/+1 counter theme worth it here? Bane is a good card in multiplayer, but it doesn't need a +1/+1 counter theme to be good, it just happens to use +1/+1 counters. Champion of Lambholt also uses counters, but she gets counters from creating creature tokens, interaction with Twincasters. Fractals also have counters, but that's just how they're created, the additional +1/+1 counter theme isn't really helping Fractals. +1/+1 counters don't have interaction with making token copies of creatures since the token copy doesn't get the counters when it's created.
A good counter interaction here is Primal Empathy + Fathom Mage , but how consistent is it that you get both these cards without having tutors to get them? Not sure if Fathom is worth playing as a draw source when it wants a more expanded counter theme to get the most out of it. Empathy, you don't have a consistent high power creature to take advantage of the draw.
Fae Offering has a good token effect with Twincasters, but only if you can trigger it which consistently seems too difficult here. Khalni Ambush Flip, fight is good with Hornet Nest , but I don't think I would play a card that all it does is fight just to have this interaction. You don't really have powerful enough creatures until later in the game that can fight an opponents creature, kill it while also having your creature survive.
Some budget changes to consider based on my last comment:
- Tireless Provisioner --> Rishkar, Peema Renegade
- Meloku the Clouded Mirror --> Deekah, Fractal Theorist
- Kodama of the East Tree --> Managorger Hydra
- Champion of Lambholt --> Master Biomancer
- Spawnwrithe --> Fae Offering
- Risen Reef --> Fathom Mage
- Double Major --> Khalni Ambush Flip
- Fierce Empath --> Nissa's Expedition
- Mystic Reflection --> Turn Aside
- Reconnaissance Mission --> Eureka Moment
1 year ago
Hey, well done so far with a budget upgrade of the precon.
Meloku the Clouded Mirror would be good here because it can be a repeatable source of tokens for Twincasters as well as a landfall enabler. Pair Meloku with Kodama of the East Tree + a basic land for infinite 1/1 Illusions and infinite landfall at instant speed. Tap a basic land to pay to activate Meloku to return that basic land to your hand and create a 1/1 Illusion token that triggers Kodama. Put that basic land from hand onto the battlefield, tap it to activate Meloku and repeat. When the basic land returns to your hand from Meloku it's a new object that has no connection to the basic land that was previously on the battlefield thus Kodama doesn't recognize it as being put onto the battlefield with it's ability.
Kodama also combos with Rampaging Baloths + Simic Growth Chamber as the land enabler for infinite landfall for infinite 4/4 Beasts since Chamber can return itself back to your hand and Kodama can put it back onto the battlefield to repeat. Fierce Empath can search for Kodama or Rampaging and it's a creature to make a token copy of. Add Garruk's Uprising for a draw engine as well as trample source.
Champion of Lambholt cares about +1/+1 counters and she triggers whenever a creature token is created. She can get big quick which makes all creatures you control unblockable. Pair Lambholt with Spawnwrithe + Twincasters to make an out of control army of Spawnwrithes who when each does combat damage to an opponent makes two copies of itself which grows Lambholt. Giant Adephage could replace Spawnwrithe since they do the same thing just one is three mana and other is seven mana. Add Curiosity Crafter or Reconnaissance Mission for a draw engine.
Tireless Provisioner is a repeatable source of treasures making it good repeatable ramp since it has interaction with Twincasters. Mimic Vat is powerful repeatable token source in multiplayer Commander since you can imprint an opponent's creature who dies, but sadly the additional token that Twincaster makes also gets exiled.
Cackling Counterpart is an instant to create a token of a creature you control. Mystic Reflection can create many copies of a nonlegendary creature of your choice when a creature or many creatures at the same time ETB. Double Major can make a token copy of a creature if you cast it while that creature spell is on the stack.
Risen Reef is a creature you want to make a token copy of because each Risen triggers itself as well as all other Risens you control. With Twincasters and one Risen in your control, if you make a token copy of Risen then you get six Risen triggers since both token copies ETB at the same time and see each other. Each token sees each other when they ETB which is four triggers and each token Risen also triggers Risen already on the battlefield for two more triggers for a total of six Risen triggers.
If interested in any of these suggestions then I offer more advice including cuts to consider. Good luck with your deck.
1 year ago
Your deck looks like it's off to a great start for being new to this! One thing I'd recommend is maybe adding a couple more Mana Dorks like Fyndhorn Elves , Llanowar Elves , Elvish Mystic etc. You're creeping close to an average CMC of 4, and want to reliably cast not only Esix, but some of those bigger token producers.
I'd also recommend checking out Lazotep Plating as a board protection option, and has a token attached to it for Esix to play with. Other cheaper token producers to check out are Master of Waves , Spawnwrithe , Mist-Syndicate Naga , Scute Swarm , and Tendershoot Dryad . I would place more emphasis on Scute Swarm or Tendershoot, since they can pump out multiple tokens per turn cycle.
If you want to make use of Esix's ability, try to have creatures that have Enter the Battlefield Effects, which can be reused as you make token copies. Some potential cards for this effect use could be Reclamation Sage and Mulldrifter .
If you're interested, check out my Adrix and Nev deck Fibonacci Debauchery. It's not super budget, but I do have stuff in my Maybeboard that might be of interest.
I would also recommend checking out The Command Zone's Pre-Con Upgrade video. They talk about the Quandrix pre-con in detail and recommend some budget upgrades with Esix as the commander of the deck.