Non-Blue Counterspells
General forum
Posted on Aug. 23, 2020, 3:44 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
Blue is the color that is known for countering spells, but each of the other four colors has had counterspells on rare occasions, although they are never as powerful as blue counterspells.
There has not been a new non-blue counterspell printed since Lapse of Certainty from the Alara block, which was now over a decade ago, and I find that to be very unfortunate. Mark Rosewater has been very adamant on his Tumblr page that only blue should have counterspells, which I dislike, since I feel that there is much unexplored territory in that regard and that any color can have counterspells, provided that they are few in number and work only under certain conditions.
What does everyone else say about this? Would you like to see additional counterspells in colors other than blue?
DemonDragonJ says... #3
Omniscience_is_life, that may be true, but I still think that Red Elemental Blast and Guttural Response are both perfectly acceptable, due to how limited they are.
August 23, 2020 4:51 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #4
I have to agree with Omni. Magic is kind of set up that the only colour allowed to interact with objects on the stack (regularly) is blue, unless it’s copying spells. Technically you could Reverberate a Counterspell back at itself but...yeah...
August 23, 2020 4:52 p.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #5
MindAblaze that's actually an very good point. Through extremely Circuitous Routes, you CAN interact/"counter" spells without blue... it just requires being a smart player and knowing the full possibilities of your cards
August 23, 2020 4:59 p.m.
xtechnetia says... #6
I think Magic needed to be designed differently from the beginning, with blue not being "the counterspell color". Stack interaction is kind of like card draw (also historically a blue-only thing), in that giving something so fundamental to the game only to one color is just a bad idea.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure that can really be fixed this long after the fact. Game design and balance has long rested on blue being the only color with true countermagic (we would need to substantially revise the color pie, as well as revisit every constructed format for balance concerns, if this changes).
And even if Wizards thinks it's a good idea in principle to extend countermagic to other colors, the other problem is that countermagic is hugely unpopular amongst casual players in general, so I doubt the political will to change this exists.
The best we can hope for is more exploration into stack interaction effects that aren't true counterspells in other colors, similar to how they explore card advantage effects in non-blue colors through some neat methods like impulse draw for red.
August 23, 2020 5 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #7
I guess the question is what do you want the non-blue counters for?
August 23, 2020 5:03 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #8
MindAblaze, to catch my opponents off-guard when I am playing a non-blue deck; Mana Tithe is the type of effect that I would like to see become more prevalent (although still relatively rare compared to blue counterspells), but a single colorless mana is too easy a cost to pay. Would a white version of Spell Pierce or Mana Leak be too powerful?
August 23, 2020 6:32 p.m.
It would make sense for black counter spells to come at a cost of creatures or life. Like Imp's Mischief or Withering Boon.
I think that a few more color pie breaking counter spells could be good.
August 23, 2020 7:15 p.m.
SynergyBuild says... #10
As long as they fit in the pie, I am okay with them. Withering Boon does nothing black couldn't deal with already, whereas Imp's Mischief can do things black otherwise couldn't necessarily deal with.
Illumination is a weird mix of Disenchant and Swords to Plowshares and it fits well in white's domain. Mana Tithe and Lapse of Certainty, not really.
I'd be fine with more Withering Boons and Illuminations, less so with the rest!
August 23, 2020 8:39 p.m.
In a funky sense, every color does have access to countermagic. They just don't have the ease of blue's ability with it. Every color can put Null Brooch or Not of This World in a deck. Only blue can really fill a deck with a suite of counters. Which i think is generally the way things should stay.
If they gave more hard counters to other colors then to keep it balanced they would have to give the rest of the pie's stuff to blue. And blue has too much already.
August 23, 2020 9 p.m.
Daveslab2022 says... #12
@xtechnicia
Magic actually was designed differently in the beginning. Richard Garfield, the games creator, didn’t create the color pie theory.
It wasn’t until Mark Rosewater joined the development team that the idea/theory of the color pie sprang into effect.
August 23, 2020 9:28 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #13
Massacar, SynergyBuild, Imp's Mischief is a great card that I would like to see be reprinted.
Daveslab2022, Mark Rosewater has certainly done much for this game, but I do wish that Richard Garfield would contribute to it more often; in recent years, he has worked on the original Ravnica block, the original Innistrad block, and Dominaria, all of which were many years apart from each other, so it would be nice if he could have an active role more frequently.
August 23, 2020 10:36 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #14
Massacar, do not forget Dash Hopes, another excellent none-blue counterspell, although I do not understand why that card allows any player to pay life, rather than the controller of the targeted spell.
SynergyBuild, what makes Mana Tithe and Lapse of Certainty different from Illumination?
August 23, 2020 10:38 p.m.
SynergyBuild says... #15
DemonDragonJ Imagine an opponent cast Ad Nauseam. What does white's color pie do to change it? Not even Angel of Jubilation changes that, nor does any removal it has, Spirit of the Labyrinth, etc.
Illumination is artifact and enchantment removal, something that cards like Disenchant, Fragmentize, Leonin Relic-Warder, etc. all do and white is known for.
Basically spells don't get hit by white, therefor the colorshifted cards Force Spike & Memory Lapse to Mana Tithe & Lapse of Certainty don't do the the same as the interesting adaptation of a Disenchant to Illumination!
That's why I don't think some of the counterspells break the color pie but some do.
Honestly though, I love those cards, and I love most color pie breaks, just sparingly xD
August 23, 2020 10:52 p.m.
I am wildly guessing,DemonDragonJ, maybe they worded Dash Hopes the way it is for two headed giant or any other team play format? Or for funky political stuff in commander or conspiracy games.
August 24, 2020 12:39 a.m.
"There has not been a new non-blue counterspell printed since Lapse of Certainty from the Alara block, which was now over a decade ago, and I find that to be very unfortunate."
Warping Wail: Am I a joke to you?
Glorious End: Bruh.
August 25, 2020 9:37 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #18
StopShot, I forgot about those cards, but only the first is a true counterspell, in my mind.
August 25, 2020 12:20 p.m.
Flooremoji says... #20
Mana tithe is a thing because white can tax, however it still ends up much different because it's
A: A surpise
B: Not a prevention of the cast, so you lose the card.
August 25, 2020 4:25 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #21
SynergyBuild, I forgot about that card, as well; was there not a white card in New Phyrexia that could counter spells, as well?
August 25, 2020 9:35 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #23
Flooremoji, yes, that is the card, and I think that cards of that nature are acceptable.
August 25, 2020 10:20 p.m.
Flooremoji says... #24
Yhea, not being a surprise is the biggest thing that seperates cards like Mana Tithe and taxing effcts. I wouldn't mind seeing more cards of this nature.
Omniscience_is_life says... #2
Hm. The fact of the matter is that counterspells in WBRG would be a color pie break. What would need to happen is more Containment Priest-type effects, that "counter spells" but don't actually counter spells. Because that's just the way the color pie works, unfortunately.
August 23, 2020 4:38 p.m.