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Great idea, but it's definitely weak to aggro, so you really need some sort of sweeper in SB. +1
April 20, 2017 3:36 p.m.
Actually, it's the other way around: This deck has been great vs aggro. Like, absolutely incredible. However, it does struggle vs counterspells, so against control you really need to dedicate most of your SB slots.
April 20, 2017 11:20 p.m.
it doesn't haha. Unless your opponent is really dumb an plays into Censor, you kind of just lose to them. However, people barely play that card, and when they do it is as a one or two of, so the likelihood of them actually drawing it is incredibly low, so that isn't really an issue.
April 23, 2017 8:20 p.m.
lol i've been playing with it for the past couple of hours and it actually is consistently winning on t5 and t6. Lost legacy is giving me trouble tho but other than that, everything looks good. Good deck man! +1 from me
April 23, 2017 11:29 p.m.
This is beyond beautiful if copy cat gets banned ill be switching right into this massive gratz for beating channel fireball to this!
April 23, 2017 11:55 p.m.
Each duel land is around $5 and you run 20, thats 100 dollars right there, not very budget
April 24, 2017 12:09 a.m.
Thanks, that's very nice of you to say. :)
This deck is about $15 apart from the lands, which you can EASILY pick up online each for about $2-4 (depending on the colors). So yes, this deck is indeed budget as you can buy the entire thing for around $70-80.
April 24, 2017 9:15 a.m.
Hi! I've been messing around with a similar list, and I just love the deck!
I get that Hedron Archive ramps faster, but I feel like having access to colored mana when comboing off and mana fixing in the early game is better.
Here's the link to my list if you want to check it out: Cycling Eggs
April 24, 2017 7:17 p.m.
Huh Weirding Wood seems ok. The only issue I see is that it requires green to cast, which can be tricky sometimes. The colored mana is definitely a significant upside. I am very interested about how it has held up in testing, as it also might be good as Wood plays around Dissenter's Deliverance. It feels like I'd have to make some pretty significant manabase changes, but is that sacrifice worth the upside. I'm also not sure how played Natural State will be post-amonkhet, so that may also make me switch these around. Any recommendations from testing?
April 24, 2017 10:19 p.m.
To be honest, I have done little testing besides goldfishing, but this is mainly a goldfish deck so I guess it's fine.
Looking at Amonkhet, I believe Natural State is going to get replaced by Dissenter's Deliverance and By Force in most sideboards. Dissenter's Deliverance is just better in most cases, as there are only a couple enchantments worth hitting in standard right now, especially with Stasis Snare being replaced by Cast Out.
In addition, many are already maindecking Manglehorn since it deals with both Mardu and Saheeli.
Returning to Weirding Wood, the main problem is that you need a 5th land to play New Perspectives. Plus, that land needs to enter untapped. This is partially fixed by playing more basics, which works well with Shefet Monitor.
I think that, even with the necessity for a 5th land, Weirding Wood is better because of all the artifact hate that all decks run now.
April 25, 2017 3:42 a.m.
Thanks for the response! Any idea what lands I should switch up? My friend has told me to add Sunscorched Desert bunch of times, so ill test these all in at once right now.
April 25, 2017 7:21 p.m.
I would remove all or most of the cycling lands in red, since you often do not need many more cyclers to combo off. I'd replace them with a mix of basics and some SOI Checklands and/or KLD Fastlands. Having access to at least 2 swamps with Shefet Monitor is great when comboing off since it can get you to Shadow of the Grave mana. I'm currently running 11 basics (1 Plains, 4 Forest, 3 Island, 3 Swamp), but you can probably put less.
Sunscorched Desert is only good against Saheeli and horrible every other time (since you need many colors), so I would just run 1 in the sideboard.
April 25, 2017 8:17 p.m.
Most of this decks cycling comes from the lands, so I'd like to avoid removing too many of those. I put in some Aether Hubs for now as placeholders, but I'll definitely look over my options a few times to find the optimal land(s).
April 25, 2017 8:31 p.m.
Your early game consists entirely of Green and Blue cards, so if you're going to change the mana base... do so with that in mind. I also agree that Sunscorched Desert is only good against Saheeli so it should be sideboard only if you include it at all... In some of my playtesting your cycle lands were absolutely critical to making sure you didn't fizzle. So I think I'm with you, even if you never use the red having those lands was critical. However, you have 3 Irrigated Farmlands and 4 Sheltered Thickets... Those should probably be flipped as one is on color and thus more important... Finally, Forsake the Worldly is probably the better card to Dissenter's Deliverance for your deck imo
April 25, 2017 10 p.m.
Haha I actually put Forsake the Worldly into my Sb just moments before your comment posted. Other than that, the reason why is higher priority is because it helps me cast Weirding Wood which in turn allows me to cast my other colors. There are also already more blue sources anyways. I'm gonna move some of the basic lands around over the next few days to make things cleaner, but for now these are the lands I want to roll with. I def want to get more blue lands in, but the other cycle lands are more important, except for Canyon Slough, but I want to keep the black lands up to reliably cast Diabolic Tutor. The mana base right now is pretty clunky, but hopefully Sunscorched Desert doesn't get in the way. I don't want to spend a whole SB slot on a land that will rarely matter, so I'd rather just house it in the mainboard or not play it at all. Honestly, I think the card probably doesn't even belong as my deck has enough ways to beat Saheeli combo anyways, but I want adequate time to test it. Aether Hub feels pretty good to me, so I kind of want to keep that in here. Thanks for the input though! I will definitely keep the / colors ahead of all colors, so right now I'll quickly swap a Canyon Slough for an Irrigated Farmland.
April 25, 2017 11:27 p.m.
I don't know how necessary it is, having not been counting the exact mana goldfishing this, but I'd love to see a 1-of Noose Constrictor in here to discard Shadow of the Grave. That way, you could just make as much mana as required without overdrawing by just looping Vizier of Tumbling Sands on a Weirded land.
April 26, 2017 1:51 p.m.
Sorry but I don't understand the interaction here? That just seems like i would cycle some viziers and accomplish nothing.
April 26, 2017 4:19 p.m.
Scorprix, Copycat just got banned. I'm really curious to hear your thoughts on how to adapt moving forward
April 26, 2017 11:22 p.m.
It definitely makes this deck worse, as this deck had a nearly un-loseable saheeli matchup. Hopefully no control pops up and the meta stays aggressive. I've been experimenting with Sweltering Suns instead of Shefet Monitor as I don't usually need the extra mana, but I'd have to fiddle with the mana base even more. Any opinion on that? And how will your deck change? How were its matchups, as I assume your deck will have to change even more? haha
April 26, 2017 11:48 p.m.
I'm still debating on my changes... I think I can come off of a kill spell or two, but with the gods and everyone else I still see a lot of hard to kill creatures dominating... My deck is crafted to prey upon midrange and aggro so I'll definitely have to change up some parts if it shifts to more non-creature based combos like yours or if we see a resurgence in straight up control decks.
April 27, 2017 12:48 a.m.
With a land that has a single Weirding Wood attached, each cycle (with 2 viziers for example) generates a net 2 mana, meaning that you should have at least 40 or so mana by the time you've decked yourself, which is easily enough to cast Approach of the Second Sun twice. Also, it means that if you have the Noose Constrictor, you don't need to draw into a third/fourth copy of Shadow of the Grave, but just use them to recur eachother.
April 27, 2017 5:11 a.m.
If you're concerned about counterspells, why not have Prowling Serpopard in your sideboard so that you can stop them in their tracks from countering? I mean if your 8 creatures are key to your win-con.
April 27, 2017 9:29 a.m.
Also, would Gift of Paradise be better to have for this deck in case of early aggro matches or burn? Mono white humans for example would kill you turn 4 or around that. Having the extra life might be worth it over a clue considering how much cycle you already have anyway.
April 27, 2017 9:33 a.m.
I don't think that works the way you want it to. The second shadow can't return the first one that has been cast. The identity of if a card has been discarded leaves when it changes zones.
April 27, 2017 2:13 p.m.
I hate that this just loses to a counter spell. Whether they counter your new perspectives or your approach from the second sun. I bring this up because I expect my local meta to be control heavy. Any thoughts on how to avoid/beat counter magic? I don't sensor will be enough against the hard control decks.
April 28, 2017 1:13 p.m.
Upvoted for "Suck my dick channel fireball". Strategy way too complicated for my simple mind to grasp, but seems like it would be really fun to play.
April 28, 2017 11:45 p.m.
I playtested this deck vs a few things and it basically auto wins on turn 6 unless your opponnent has Cast Out, a counterspell or instant speed enchant destruction (and even then it's possible you still win since it never gets to resolve.
April 29, 2017 7:52 a.m.
Shouldnt you have more basic lands or deserts for Shefet Monitor? You can only use him 4 times then hes useless. And thats if all your basics are still in your deck. I don't see how you're producing so much land with your combo.
April 29, 2017 3:20 p.m.
Sorry for taking so long to respond to your comments, I've been especially busy recently.
Not really. Vs control, you have Faith of the Devoted post SB, which can win games by t6-7 as well, which you easily have time for.
Thanks haha! My friend sent me the link, and from there I know that I've peaked.
Yep, the deck is pretty strong imo.
You only really need like 2 or 3 lands off of of your Shefets for them to be good, as you don't really need that much mana, you really just need an extra mana or two to kickstart the combo, as sometimes a single Vizier of Tumbling Sands isn't enough to cast your first Shadow of the Grave.
April 29, 2017 8:16 p.m.
Love it! I don't really have a suggestion, mainly because I never thought of using New Perspectives, but this as been added to my Found Decks folder.
April 30, 2017 6:10 p.m.
I went 3-1 at an fnm with the list when there was only 1 cast out and i really like the deck. The only deck I lost to was u/w spirits and that player had the luckiest hands of all time.
May 1, 2017 8:09 p.m.
I don't understand how you are supposed to cast approach twice in one turn, or how it can win as early as turn 5
May 1, 2017 9:22 p.m.
For the last few days I am planning to create a deck like yours and I would like to ask you for your insight:1. Even if the opponent counters/discards any combo piece, in response we can keep cycling until we find/recast Censor, so there is no problem there right? 2. In case we face a Lost Legacy what is the backup plan? 3. Commit / Memory wouldn't be a good add (one of)?4. Did you playtest the new list? If so what were the match ups and the outcomes?
May 2, 2017 7:08 a.m.
The goal of the deck is to get to turn 5-6 and cast New Perspectives. If that resolves, you can now cast cycle cards for 0. So, you play cycle cards until you hit the key ones like Shefet Monitor and Vizier of Tumbling Sands. These are the big ones because they get you an untapped land out of your deck in the case of the monitor + draw you a card OR untap a permanent (a land) and draw you a card. With that kind of engine, it's pretty simple to dig for or set up a great Shadow of the Grave which you will be able to cast thanks to either getting untapped lands via monitor or untapping stuff via vizier. So that's the basic idea.
Now to set up the win con, you need to dig for Approach of the Second Sun. After enough digging, getting free lands and untapping stuff + bringing it all back to hand via Shadow of the Grave only to recast everything for free, you should get enough mana to cast Approach then untap all your lands and cast it again.
Or another win-con is via Faith of the Devoted which frankly is probably the easier way to win. You can also run Drake Haven as an alternate win-con or a replacement win-con over either previous options.
The deck has many ways to set up and win. I've playtested the deck vs a friend and the moment I resolved New Perspectives I won 4/5 games we played. The one I lost was due to variance more so than anything.
May 2, 2017 7:44 a.m.
I took this to FNM and went 4-1 with it. My only loss was to a buddy of mine who had extensive play testing against it. And even then I lost 1-2 I kept pretty greedy hands. I would like to point out something really cool that I did with the deck in one of the matches. My opponent cast lost legacy on me and names approach from the second sun. Seemed shitty because I did not sideboard at all against him. So the next turn I combo off with new perspectives and just cast all 4 Shefnet Monitors, needless to say I swung for lethal on the next turn. Kind of a neat out, thought Y'all would like to hear that.
May 2, 2017 10:02 a.m.
I'm sorry,I guess I haven't tested it enough but I don't see how people are getting so much mana out. I mean obviously it works for people but I can't generate any substantial mana. You tap 6 Mana for New Perspectives and 2 for each Shadow of the Grave, that's tapping 14 total, or 28 total if you add the Mana needed to win with Approach of the Second Sun. But if you cycle all of your Vizier of Tumbling Sands the max 5 times you can that gets you 20 mana back, and that can get up to 24 if you are able to fully use your Shefet Monitors. And that's if you don't draw your library out before doing this.I'm sorry I don't mean to hate or sound skeptical because obviously a ton of people got this to work and it does seem fun, I'm just genuinely confused.
May 2, 2017 11:11 a.m.
WOW! Again, I haven't had much time to comment lately due to work, but thanks you all for your advice and input! Thank you to all of you guys!
Haha thanks for the compliments. It means a lot.
That's great to hear! I will be bringing this deck to FNM soon and will definitely be posting my results.
Noctem cleared it up exceptionally well. Thanks man, really helps out since I have been constrained for time.
Yes, that does work, as long as you retain the 7+ hand size that New Perspectives requires. It can be tricky, but yes, I guess that does work. The backup plan vs Lost Legacy is to hard cast your creatures I guess. It isn't strong, but in principle it does work. I would love to add some Negates to the SB, but I feel like they just cost too much mana compared to Dispel, but I could see a justification for the change. People have generally cut Lost Legacy completely as Saheeli-Combo is gone from the meta, so it is probably unnecessary.
Haha that's hilarious. Thank you for sharing that! It is definitely a play that can be made to win a game or two before people realize that they should be naming New Perspectives.
No problem haha! If you are mid combo and don't already have a Weirding Wood out, make sure to cast it on your land before using the Viziers unless necessary. This will literally double the amount of mana you produce. Hope that clears things up and helps you get all the mana you need!
May 2, 2017 11:48 a.m.
Yeah I love the deck. This is the standard equivalent to storm that I wanted. Not with aether flux. It slower than this. If you have New perspectives and have 7 or more cards after the draw you basically win because so much of the deck has cycling and if the land base didn't have cycling then this deck wouldn't be possible. One thing I changed for the meta of my lgs is that I took out the 4 anticipate for 4 sweltering suns because now you take out all the aggro decks with really small creatures like u/w spirits and any sort of go wide strategies.
May 2, 2017 7:41 p.m.
Is this deck capable playing for gameday? My current meta is a ton of Fling Pummler and 2-3 Mardu aggro, a abzan season's past and I am sure someone is going to play jeskai control or somesort of blue control deck. I am concerned that I will not be able to beat the control decks.
May 2, 2017 7:42 p.m.
Yea I've definately been considering Sweltering Suns for a while now, but my lgs is pretty small and has almost no aggro decks. Seems like a solid addition, as I can even bring it in vs the drake control decks so that I can stop the pressure. Please tell me how it goes!
The deck will almost always beat aggro, but vs control it struggles. For that reason, Faith of the Devoted comes in and quickly drains them out after 10 cycles, while simultaneously keeping your life total high enough to eat the board's damage.
May 2, 2017 7:59 p.m.
Okay didn't think of that in the sideboard. So do you think this can beat the abzan seasons past deck with a main board of 3x Anguish Unmaking and 2x lost legacy? with a sideboard built for artifact/enchantment hate?
May 2, 2017 8:02 p.m.
I love this deck I am a Jank player at heart and this is the most playable Jank I have seen (Jank to me is something that nobody could think of)but I really want to win gameday so if this deck can win then I will be all over it.
May 2, 2017 8:03 p.m.
I've just played about 8 games against vehicles and lost 5 out of 8 and I lost five out of 8 because ech time I had five lands and need a 6th I would cycle some other card rather that the monitor and would not get a land. So for anyone else trying to play the deck never be scared to cycle the monitor just for the extra mana during the combo, you don't need it. Sorry for so many comments, I really love this deck!
May 2, 2017 8:56 p.m.
I've been keeping my ear to the ground for this deck and one thing I've seen be really effective is a Gideon of the Trials. The brew they had was much more fog based with Repel the Abominable, Encircling Fissure, and Haze of Pollen. They instead relied on Fevered Visions and Pull from Tomorrow for their draw and I didn't see any New Perspectives. Now I am by no means saying to overhaul your whole deck, just letting you know what I see people doing with Approach of the Second Sun so maybe you can use some of their work to makes yours better.
Of the cards I saw the guy use, Gideon of the Trials seems the most useful, but I'm not sure if you have the space for it.
May 2, 2017 9:33 p.m.
Abazan seasons seems like a bad match-up haha, but that deck sounds so greedy that if your store is big enough that deck will always lose the first game so if you win yours you won't play vs it haha. That sounds weird but most decks people bring are awful jank, so you should be able to win game one. This deck is pretty good imo, and could definitely stand a solid chance if people don't pack lots of SB hate, of which they likely won't. Also, the Shefets can definitely be tricky, but are often key in saving yourself. No problem, I'm here to answer your questions, and am happy to do so!
That's a whole other deck that doesn't otk. These are very different decks with different matchups (I would presume).
May 2, 2017 9:54 p.m.
Actually I have a very small store an average 10-12 people and it drops during high school football season because a lot of the kids are in band. The store is extremely competitive most people meta game it which sucks because I can't play any of my janky brews.
May 2, 2017 11:41 p.m.
If you have free time could you plz take a look at my approach? It is almost similar to yours, but my SB is more control orriented, transforming the main into a control deck. This is my list:
4 x Scattered Groves (Cycling)
4 x Irrigated Farmland (Cycling)
4 x Fetid Pools (Cycling)
4 x Sheltered Thicket (Cycling)
2 x Swamp
2 x Forest
3 x Island
2 x Aether Hub
4 x New Perspectives
4 x Haze of Pollen (Cycling)
3 x Censor (Cycling)
2 x Gift of Paradise
2 x Dissenter's Deliverance (Cycling)
4 x Cast Out (Cycling)
1 x Negate
1 x Forsake the Worldly (Cycling)
3 x Hieroglyphic Illumination (Cycling)
4 x Vizier of Tumbling Sands (Cycling)
3 x Shefet Monitor (Cycling)
2 x Dovin Baan
3 x Fumigate
2 x Disallow
4 x Spell Queller
May 3, 2017 6:38 a.m.
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|Date added||5 months|
|Last updated||4 months|
This deck is Standard legal.
|Folders||AKH Standard, Great decks, 4. Amonkhet, Stupid silly deck, test, Potential, Standard (AKH-HOU) - Misc, AMK, Cool decks, Ideas, See all 58|
|Top rank||#1 on 2017-04-28|