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Creature — Spike
Spike Weaver enters the battlefield with three +1/+1 counters on it.
, Remove a +1/+1 counter from Spike Weaver: Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.
, Remove a +1/+1 counter from Spike Weaver: Prevent all combat damage that would be dealt this turn.
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Spike Weaver Discussion
5 days ago
Avacyn, Angel of Hope doesn't seem super on theme or really that useful. I mean, yeah, it's really good. But it's also 8 mana and for 8 mana I feel like you should be winning the game. Not just protecting your 1/1s or whatever you have out.
Pallid Mycoderm, Rot Shambler, Savage Thallid, Sporecrown Thallid, Sporemound, Sporesower Thallid, and Sporoloth Ancient. I think all of them are either overcosted for what they offer, or don't offer enough. I think the best out of these is Sporemound, but I'm not sure it's good enough. You don't really ramp all that hard, and you'll have so many 1/1s anyway that I don't think it'll matter if you get a couple extra. I think these could all be replaced by more 'value' oriented cards.
Verdant Force is simply overcosted. Remove.
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice is out of place. Populating a 1/1 for 3 mana and a tap is a bad feeling, and gaining 1 life from each is trivial and could be done with Suture Priest or any soul sister (and better too). Also Trostani's mana cost is steeper than it seems (from experience).
Fungal Plots is just kinda weak. I'm super against self-gy hate, and this is no exception. You're paying 4 mana and a card for a 1/1, and then you can maybe sac 2 more creatures for some life and a draw. There are much better options for card advantage AND tokens (I'll get into it later).
Intangible Virtue is out of place. An army of 2/2 vigilance's isn't amazing, especially because your saprolings WANT to die (to slimefoot and Blood Artist and others), so tapping to attack isn't an issue. You already have other, better, team buffs so I don't really think this fits.
Night Soil is just kinda meh. It's a tougher restriction than it seems (both from the same yard).
Along with this, I don't like Necrogenesis in general, but at least it gy-hates opponents and is something you can do if you have mana left up. An early cut if you still wanna cut some stuff, but fine to leave.
Primal Vigor can backfire hard. I don't think it's worth tbh. Also the mana cost is steep for something that doesn't do anything by itself.
True Conviction is just super out of place, and that mana cost is super rough. Absolutely cut. If you were gonna have a mana cost with WWW, it's gonna be Avacyn (but it's gonna be neither).
Verdant Embrace is just too costly for what it does and what you need. If it was like 3 mana and didn't give the +3/+3, that would work, but as is it's too costly and you'll almost certainly not get a lot of value from it because people will murder the creature it's on immediately.
Honestly, I've never liked Second Harvest. It's a terrible card if you're losing and if you cast it and win, you probably would've already won anyway. It seems like win-more to me. Most cards that do nothing on their own I think are kinda meh.
I have no idea how to feel about Vona's Hunger. I'd consider removing just because if you're using this to clear a board, they're gonna keep their best shit anyway, and this is pretty trash against other token decks. The mana cost and instant speed is a nice +, but I'm not sure it's enough here.
You have a lot of lands. I like running fewer lands (35) but having about ~10 sources of ramp. I'll try to figure some out as we progress.
Fungal Sprouting does nothing on it's own and I am having a tough time envisioning it being really useful. Getting 5 1/1s is great for Ghave, but for 4 mana and sorcery speed, I feel you could be doing more. It's fine for now, but consider it an early cut if needed.
Glare of Subdual. This is a tough one. On the one hand, tapping down the voltron player (Seth's cats or my dragons or Zac's Tuvasa) is super dope. On the other hand, tapping is not removal and it relies on you having a creature to spare to tap. It's also 4 mana. I'd probably remove. If it was 1WG, I'd think it was good.
I strongly recommend not having more than 8 enchantments. You have 16 right now and that's just too many without some heavy enchantment recursion.
Okay. We got through it boys. Let's go to our suggestions and recommendations. This next section will include cards in your maybe board that I think are good and should go to mainboard.
Anafenza, the Foremost, because who doesn't like incidental GY hate on an aggressively costed body. 3 mana for a 4/4 that GY hates is something that your opponents need to answer, and more often than not their removal will be worth more to them than Anafenza is worth to you.
Elenda, the Dusk Rose is a card I've always wanted to work and this might be it. Being able to sac a huge board and then herself seems like great value. The issue with Elenda is that she can be exiled, but your commander is a sac outlet which protects against that. I think she could be a powerhouse in this deck ESPECIALLY because her tokens have lifelink. Never underestimate lifelink on tokens.
Juniper Order Ranger is just gravy. 5 mana for a boi that gets progressively larger and boosts your board is something that needs to be answered to. This will either force a boardwipe or spot removal and honestly either a win for you.
Shalai, Voice of Plenty is good. Really good. I don't think it's bad to put it in this deck.
Retribution of the Ancients is super interesting and could be a powerhouse. I'm inclined to include it as instant speed removal that works on indestructible things at a minimum cost to yourself seems very good. Sure, you'll be using 3-5 counters each time, but ideally that won't be an issue since. Also it's at a mana cost price you just can't do better than.
Everything from maybeboard I didn't mention is a no.
End of Maybeboard Recommendations
Uhh, where's my babe Elspeth, Sun's Champion at?? 6 mana for either a conditional boardwipe that won't hit you that often, or for 3 token bois seems like a good deal. And if you manage to ult, you win. No one can stop a flying army of 3/3s.
Eldrazi Monument. We already talked about it but just wanna have it written down here.
Pir, Imaginative Rascal. Fucking gravy. Works with Ghave super well but also Elspeth and also your dudes who put spore counters on themselves. This is a must include. I'm kind of surprised he wasn't already in the list tbh.
Fecundity can be absolutely nutty. Sure, it helps your opponents, but it is very unlikely it'll help them more than it helps you. Also a may trigger so it won't hurt you if you don't want it to.
Dark Prophecy is also insane, tho the self damage could become hazardous. I'll recommend some things to combat this as the card is a powerhouse, even with the BBB mana cost. Remember, being at 5 life and winning is the same as being at 40 life and winning.
Loyal Guardian is a new card which could do work. Early cut, but I'll put it here if you need to fill out your creatures.
Heroic Intervention is the single best protection spell in green. It's basically a green Teferi's Protection for your turn and it cannot be overstated how good it is at the right time. It is the difference between "I win next turn" and "Man nice boardwipe, GG." And for 2 mana too. It's bonkers. Must include.
Cryptolith Rite is disgusting. You've played slivers so you know how good Gemhide is. This is too. I think this is a must.
Zulaport Cutthroat is nice redundancy for your combo win and also nice incidental lifegain (which helps counteract Dark Prophecy's life cost).
Forgotten Ancient is bonkers. Will always become a threat and require removal. It's just good.
Hangarback Walker is solid. Dump whatever mana you have into it, gives you something to do EoT, and you'll almost always get the death trigger since your commander is a sac outlet.
Scavenging Ooze. Graveyard hate is good, and incidental synergy with counter is even better. Just a super efficient card and usually comes something that needs to be removed sooner rather than later. Using the ability as an instant in response to a 'return from graveyard' spell is a joy.
Abzan Charm is good at any point of the game. Removal, counters, card advantage. Maybe the best charm out of all of them. Cannot be overstated. This is a must include.
You have no boardwipes. What the hell. You need at least 4 in almost every deck, but you will be fine with 3 here since you have Elspeth and Dictate of Erebos. I recommend Day of Judgment, Merciless Eviction (best boardwipe ever printed ever), Austere Command (wipe everything but your 0 CMC tokens and you'll usually open a board up for swings) and Living Death. More on Living Death below.
Living Death is a pet card of mine. Mostly because of how bonkers it is. 5 mana for a boardwipe that makes everyone sac their hexproof/indestructible creatures, and then get's you everything you need back. Ideally you'll have something like Aura Shards or Dictate out as you cast this to thin your opponents board afterwards. Also, with Anafenza, Necrogenesis, Scavenging Ooze and Bojuka Bog, you should be getting more value back than anyone else consistently.
Dread Return is good. 4 mana to bring something back is the going rate and saccing 3 creatures to bring something back is double upside since more often than not saccing creatures is good. With Blood Artist that gains you 3 life and someone loses 3, with Fecundity or Dark Prophecy, you just drew 3 cards for FREE. Stupid.
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is always always always a powerhouse. Clears the board and puts you absurdly far ahead in terms of board presence. If you have the money, put it in.
I know you're not huge on tutors, but Razaketh, the Foulblooded and Sidisi, Undead Vizier are good. Can help find answers or just combo pieces to close out a long game. If you only want one, put Razaketh because at the end of the day, an 8/8 flample for 8 is good.
Carrion Feeder is good because instant speed sac outlets with incidental counter value is good. Sac a creature, get a counter, remove counter to get another creature is good. Essentially, with Fecundity/Dark Prophecy, Ghave, and Carrion Feeder out, they read "Pay 1 mana, draw a card" and that's good. Add in Blood Artist and it's even better, and add in Pir and Ashnod's and you win. 5/6 card combos are still combos. Also Carrion is a 1 mana sac outlet and that's really good.
Requiem Angel is a card I've always wanted to use but never found the place. This might be it, chief. Essentially doubling your token count for ability activations and sac triggers, plus turns your measly 1/1 saps into 1/1 fliers, which is a huge boost.
I'd remove Aura Mutation and replace it with both Putrefy and Mortify. The reason is that I often find myself holding onto Aura Mutation hoping to get good value from it, but oftentimes I should just use it on a 2 drop enchantment like Cryptolith Rite or something. Mortify and Putrify also double as modal cards, making them never a dead card if you draw them.
You need more ramp. There is no way around it. But you need more. Cultivate, Kodamas, Nature's Lore, Farseek, etc etc. No mana rocks besides Sol Ring. You're green, use it. You could also run things like Primal Druid that give value when they die, since this is a sacrifice deck. I'd scryfall "dies/enter search library land battlefield" and choose your favorite.
Mindless Automaton just seems fun. Depending on how easy it is to put counters on stuff, this may work. Early cut for sure.
Thats all I got for now. I'll comment again if I think of more.
4 weeks ago
Thanks stardustXO. Put some work into this deck.
For your suggestions: I would like to play Spike Weaver, but my girlfriend plays this deck a lot too and I’m not allowed to put it in because it „looks too much like a spider“.
Attunement seems to be interesting. Might be worth a test, not sure what I should cut for it.
Nezahal, Primal Tide is a card i play in my zegana deck. Only Merfolk, kraken, oktopusses and cards with water artwork. For muldrotha it doesn’t seem to really fit in this deck.
4 weeks ago
Deck looks really sweet and refined!
I am brewing for a few months too, here are a few suggestions from my experience: Spike Weaver is spore frogs bigger friend, although it's meta-dependent I've gotten to really like him. You can hold up several turns of fogs while you can replay other creatures from your yard with Muldrotha. It also acts a little bit like a rattlesnake effect, since people don't want to waste their attacks. It dodges exile removal as well if you hold up a bit of mana.
Attunement is a card that I wanted to test for the longest time! It is definitely weird but lets you see a lot of cards fast. I don't know if its good (yet), but maybe you want to try it out!
Finally, Nezahal, Primal Tide is a real pain in the ass. You can safely drop him without worrying about counters, draws you loads and his discard downside for saving him shouldn't bother you that much. At first I wasn't really sure about him since 7 mana for this card seems a lot but he overperformed every time and earned a fixspot in my deck.
New cards from GRN I'm looking forward too are Underrealm Lich, Doom Whisperer, the new Fleshbag Marauder and maybe Mnemonic Betrayel (why just play cards from my yard :P). Not sure about Vraska, Golgari Queen.. Whats your opinion?
1 month ago
Really fun looking deck! You might want to consider including some other low evolve creatures like Experiment One and Cloudfin Raptor. Also, I think Spike Weaver could be an interesting asset to your theme.
1 month ago
Spike Weaver has been great as a repeatable fog effect, especially with Genesis in the graveyard to return it to play. I definitely don't want to cut that one. I was thinking of maybe cutting Ulvenwald Hydra as it doesn't Trample and my main objective to winning is not through Combat anyway.
1 month ago
100% agreement regarding Proliferate or adding counters on Planeswalkers. Inexorable Tide, Engine etc are very mana intensive win more cards which don't do enough on their own. Atraxa is enough as proliferate.
Have you tried out Rings of Brighthearth? It's in most cases a cheaper version of The Chain Veil and curves really nice with 3 mana. It does not have the same combo potential (which is really hard to pull off in Atraxa anyway) but it even let us use the ultimate of planeswalkers twice which can be devastating with some planeswalkers (like Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Jace, Architect of Thought, Teferi, Hero of Dominaria, Nissa, Voice of Zendikar etc.). As a bonus it lets you search for an addition land when you use its effect on a fetchland. The only downside which is pretty negligible is that it doesn't add any addition loyality counters on planeswalkers when you use it on plus effects but this is compensated by the fact that you are also not paying more loyality counter when you use the minus abilities.
The ultimate of Tezzeret, Artifice Master is best used when you first look for control pieces like Humility, Winter Orb, Dueling Grounds, Spike Weaver etc. and after you slowed down the gameplan of the other players you can bring down Doubling Season and Planeswalker after Planeswalker. It's pretty much game over if the other players cannot react really fast to it which is pretty hard if you immediately deny them their mana.
2 months ago
I understand Spike Feeder and Archangel of Thune combo perfectky well, simply in a competitive environment, either one will be countered, or they will be removed with something like Chain of Vaporing the Archangel, in response to the first activation of Spike Feeder. That is a blowout like a Time Walk since you can't activate it again without killing the Spike Weaver. Felidar Sovereign with Chord of Calling is your best actual wincon, but I mean... 9 mana/creatures? What turn are you on? If this deck consistently puts out creatures and mana like that by turn 3, since you need to win by turn 4 at the latest for this to be a combo/aggro cEDH deck, then run it, I just don't think that is plausible.
2/2 Cats aren't a real strategy on their own. They don't make mana, and so don't combo out and win, simply put, I could get into Commander theory and the 'Aggro Problem', but I will just copy and paste the work I already did for something else:
This is too much for them. Generally there are a few way aggro compensates, one of which abuses the already built-in system of 'Commander Damage.' Building up a ton of auras and equipment on a commander to make it huge and swing in for 21 damage works in a lot of cases, and is called "Voltron." The main issue with this is a cheap and fast commander like Rafiq of the Many is too easily prone to removal like Swords to Plowshares, and more controlling commander like Sigarda, Host of Herons or Uril, the Miststalker are generally a bit too , slow to get around board wipes like Toxic Deluge, Wrath of God, Damnation, Day of Judgment and Supreme Verdict.
But there are other tricks aggro has up its sleeves, think infect. Really, infect is just as powerful in Modern or Legacy than in EDH, right? Well, not exactly, yes infect still only needs to deal 10 poison counters to kill a player, but you still have to deal at least 30 damage given your opponents can't kill faster than you, or if they are also playing infect. It's tracked differently, so if someone is at one life, they can take up to 9 poison counters and still live. Running Atraxa, Praetors' Voice can give some inevitability to your infect win, and stuff like Saskia the Unyielding can also be run to make you only have to deal 20 damage to win with infect.
The biggest issue with infect is that players generally frown upon it, and will target you, or player cards like Solemnity as a counter to it. Some playgroups set the poison counters needed to kill to 15 or 20, and some outright ban it. Also, since there are no commanders other than Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon directly support it, there is little consistency to infect decks, despite there explosive turns and wins.
Well, that is the aggro problem, it is what leads so many decks to be control, midrange, combo, or hybrid builds, and why the format is generally considered slow. This isn't to say decks can't win turn 1 or anything, tons of combo decks can, however, this is what leads to the final point. Combo is generally the best win condition, not to say a deck like Edric, Spymaster of Trest shouldn't beat face to win, but for most decks, combo with differing levels of disruption is the best strategy.
Many playgroups don't use combos, whether they are more casual, frown upon combo, outright ban it, or simply run more beatdown strategies and don't care for combo particularly. This is perfectly fine, and reasonable, but it is the work-around for the aggro problem, while not relying solely on control.
Okay, so now you see the problem with aggro, and why 2/2 cats in essence aren't a wincon, Archangel of Thune can be removed in response to the first Spike Weaver activation, and so aren't as instant win as you thought, and even so, unless you have enough creatures to kill each other player, it isn't going to win the game, as they will simply win on their turn, in a cEDH meta. Since Felidar Guardian combo is too slow generally, and you only run 4 tutors for the Thune-Weaver Combo, it isn't a fast combo deck.
That isn't to say it isn't competitive, you could make it stax, run the fast elf-ramp, and Armageddon until you win, but that still requires a different gameplan.
Again, all of this is meaningless if you don't want to make it stax or fast combo, but without blue, your card draw isn't their for permission control, and that means you aren't able to consistently make this cEDH competitive, but I won't claim it is bad or anything, it is simply a high-powered mid-level EDH deck, and I think that is fine.
On ramp, most of the options you mentioned were sub-par, Tithe, Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Growing Rites of Itlimoc Flip, Mirari's Wake all are either too expensive or not impactful enough, 1 mana ramp is where you want to be, the fast rocks, Ancient Tomb/Gaea's Cradle/Gemstone Caverns, elves, etc.
2 months ago
Thought about adding Spike Weaver for that infinite fog?