Hybrid rule change
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Oct. 21, 2025, 5:56 p.m. by Coward_Token
In the recent update article to the bracket system, Gavin Verhey floated the idea of making hybrid mana symbols inclusive rather than excluding for the purpose of the 99. Regardless of how you feel about the change, what would the impact be?
Scryfall search for cards with hybrid mana
Ashiok, Dream Render gets to be annoying more often
Murderous Redcap gets to combo in even more decks
Dream Salvage: mono-black discard decks
Azor's Elocutors: mono-white pillow fort gets a wincon?
Sygg, River Cutthroat would be cool for a lot of political decks
Everlasting Torment & Kulrath Knight for Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons & Massacre Girl, Known Killer. For the Knight, also Toxrill, in case you want to be even more annoying.
Vexing Shusher expands its anti-countering services
Wort, the Raidmother might be neat for red+ spellslinger that uses tokens, like Magnus the Red
Rhys the Redeemed: more power to go-wide strategies (although Elfball haters might not be so enthustiatic)
The bonder cycle: Jubilant Skybonder, Cunning Nightbonder, Proud Wildbonder, and Sonorous Howlbonder ... also Alert Heedbonder, I guess.
Enchanted Evening, Gilder Bairn: more shenanigans abound
Godhead of Awe: might be neat for mono-W?
Worm Harvest: Titania is now the queen of worms
All companions become available to an expanded selection of color identites, with the exception of Jegantha (and Lutri)
It sounds like WOTC is posturing for the next Lorwyn set to be released
October 22, 2025 1:43 a.m.
I appreciate that they're at least asking to see what the players want for some of the points in question, and I'd like to think Gavin Verhey cares enough to take the feedback on board before making a final decision, instead of just paying lip service. He seems like a reasonable and responsible format manager, from what I know.
October 22, 2025 2:10 a.m.
plakjekaas says... #5
I still think the color identity of hybrid mana symbols is twofold, and the exclusion for mono decks that follows should be an unfortunate, but necessary rule to uphold.
I hate that conjuring and other Arena-only mechanics (like Key to the Archive) have utterly destroyed color identity as a concept for that format, and I hate it. Restrictions breed creativity, and I don't think that if you ask the player base, more restrictions will ever be the consensus outcome. In the immortal words of Albus Dumbledore: the trouble is, humans do have a knack of choosing precisely those things which are worst for them.
October 22, 2025 6:14 a.m.
Icbrgr probably won the thread already, but I'll throw out my pennies. I have few doubts that they've already got at least a cycle of chase hybrid cards that won't move as many boxes if they can't take off the restriction on playing them in Commander. For the colourless identity stuff they probably have a colourless Scarecrow Legend that's WAY more pushed than Reaper King, but the deck needs him in the 99, so rules change time to help move new cardboard.
I think both hybrid changes are terrible money-grab ideas that adds confusion to a system that is VERY intuitive atm. Oh, and this is coming from people keep trying to take stuff off the GC and/or ban list purely to raise their reprint equity under the guise of 'simplicity'; as if a banlist having even 100 cards would even register as an complexity issue in a game this staggeringly nuanced/granular. It's not hard to check if something is banned, especially compared to Gavin/WotC expecting new players to MEMORIZE a huge list of 'problem' Commanders, and what bracket their 'problemness' justifies. Oh yeah, and there isn't an official list of those Commanders you 'wouldn't want to play against', so progress is pure stepping on rakes in the dark for newbies. This is exactly the kind of shit people were worried about with WotC stealing EDH from the RC IMHO.
October 22, 2025 1:07 p.m.
From what I've seen online so far, it's a pretty even split between yes and no. At the risk of bringing in another contentious topic, it's honestly pretty similar to what was going around after the Jeweled Lotus bans, with how balanced (and loud) each side is against each other.
"Hybrid should be allowed! It's how every other format works, and they're all in color anyway!"
"Hybrid shouldn't be allowed! Color identity is what makes Commander unique, and it should be kept that way!"
I do believe there's a bunch of hybrid cards in Lorwyn Eclipsed that would influence the decision, but I've seen this discussion going in the background pretty much ever since I started Commander-ing. I'm softly against it--like I said above, I'd welcome the opportunity to brew around some more, but I think there's a strong risk of abuse against the spirit of the rules as an unintended consequence. As long as people don't start hurling more death threats around over a card game.
Personally, I want to see the "banned as commander" list come back, but that seems to be the minority opinion.
October 22, 2025 4:16 p.m.
This is such a bad idea. Invalidating the concept of the color pie is not going to improve the game.
October 22, 2025 7:03 p.m.
Azoth2099 How is this invalidating the color pie? Most (not quite all) effects are solidly in-color for both hybrid colors, and the handful that aren't are relatively minor breaks. Is there a specific hybrid card that breaks the color pie?
Maybe the 2brid stuff, but I think those should remain locked to color identity.
October 22, 2025 9:22 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #10
I again shall reiterate my opinion that the current rule is acceptable as it is, as color identity is a central aspect of the EDH format, and I believe that changing that rule would be going against the spirit of the format, so I do hope that the majority of people agree, with me, about that.
What does everyone else say, about this subject? Do you believe that the rules for hybrid mana in EDH should be changed, or should they be kept, as they currently are? I certainly am interested to hear your opinions, on this matter.
legendofa, I believe that Azoth2099 meant that changing the rules regarding hybrid mana would undermine the concept of color identity, which is central to EDH as a format.
October 22, 2025 10:22 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #11
I'm actually for going back to the old system of only letting you add mana within your commander's color identity, with other colors being turned into as a replacement effect. Makes EDH sync up more with other formats (making things easier for R&D) without changing the spirit of things, IMO.
October 25, 2025 5:35 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #12
What cards would be negatively affected by my rule change? I'm mostly thinking card-stealing effects that don't use the now-common "you may spend mana as though it were mana of any color to cast that spell" rider, like Sen Triplets & Praetor's Grasp. Stealing permanents with abilities that have mana pips would be worse too.
On the flipside, Forsaken Monument would randomly get better, especially in artifact decks.
legendofa says... #2
I think it's fine if it's not abused. Bloom Tender is one of my bigger concerns. I would personally house rule Tender to only create mana from your commander's identity. I know infinite mana is basically a gimme in -based color sets anyway, but something just doesn't feel right about letting Eladamri, Korvecdal or whatever use Tender + Leyline of the Guildpact for five mana with minimal investment. Kinnan, Bonder ProdigyGC would be worse. Maybe if this happens, I'll put the Leyline in my Elf deck and see how it feels.
Also, things like the Shadowmoor Liege cycle feel potentially abusable. If you dump Creakwood Liege, Boartusk Liege, Wilt-Leaf Liege, Thistledown Liege, Mindwrack Liege, and Glen Elendra Liege into that Kinnan deck as six extra anthems with good stuff on the side, I'm going to be questioning it.
Outside of those sort of cases, I'm generally okay with it. I feel like this is one of those "use it responsibly" ideas--using hybrids to support your strategy is fine, using hybrids as cheese feels like it's against the spirit of the color identity rules. There's a few decks I'd definitely brew up under new hybrid rules, Kulrath Knight being one of them. Love that card.
October 21, 2025 7:36 p.m. Edited.