Grisel Cannon (turn 1 win)

Modern* Khanye

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changes after playing against full control —Aug. 11, 2014

upped the Noxious Revival to 4x and moved Pact of Negation to sideboard.

also reduced Mana Confluence to 2x and added 2 Swamp for those Path to Exile

PlattBonnay says... #1

+1 mate, awesome list!

August 7, 2014 7:58 a.m.

numberoverzero says... #2

I'm currently working on Modern Cheeri0s (Thread) and the one thing we've found is 4 Noxious Revival is the best insurance against disruption. You don't want to Pact of Negation a Thoughtseize but you can always revive it. Not sure what you cut - maybe 2 Manamorphose ?

Why is Manamorphose here instead of Gitaxian Probe - just because it pitches to Fury of the Horde ? You're already producing any color of mana, and if you've got Griselbrand you'll have enough red cards. Gitaxian Probe tells you if you're all set to go off and doesn't require mana to cycle, so you can burn it earlier to hit a land drop.

Ray of Revelation should be Wear since you're aiming for < t5 wins. Casting it a second time will very rarely be relevant, but the option to hit either artifact or enchantment will usually be important. Also easier to cast for RiP.

I think there are some better choices than Borborygmos Enraged for the third legendary to search up with Signal the Clans . For example:

The point here is to have a third creature that allows you to continue trying for the Emrakul/Griselbrand combo, instead of letting you do things with lands. That's relevant after Griselbrand has drawn you 14 cards, not before.

Also worth noting that if Goryo's Vengeance loses track of the card for any reason (Cloudshift ) then you can keep the creature around. It might be worth sideboarding in some of the creatures above with a set of Cloudshift for a slower more controlling strategy, and set up bigger turns. Suspending a Through the Breach with Jhoria lets you set up a critical turn where you have too many spells to have them all countered.

August 7, 2014 12:30 p.m.

tookit says... #3

Not fast enough, jk +1

August 7, 2014 2:13 p.m.

Khanye says... #4

@numberoverzero - thanks for feedback, my responses below.

  1. Noxious Revival is only there to save from Surgical Extraction or to put a Fury of the Horde back on top to go for the kill shot. Thoughtseize is never a problem for this deck, in fact I have had people scoop after using Thoughtseize because they saw that my hand was combo ready.

  2. Manamorphose is way better than Gitaxian Probe , yes its a red source to pitch to Fury of the Horde , it can help me free cast Izzet Charm , Goryo's Vengeance , Signal the Clans , all of which are beneficial to me. Combo decks rely less on what your opponent is doing, and rely more on how fast you can combo off. the Pact of Negation is there to make sure if they try to stop you on winning turn, you can keep it going

  3. Ray of Revelation and Ancient Grudge are both there to be able to flash back after a pitch. Izzet Charm , Wild Guess require us to pitch cards, and these two can be easily pitched without consequence. also, with the flashback, you get double the mileage out of both compared to a singleton Wear / Tear

  4. Borborygmos Enraged can end the game himself on the same turn. with fetches and Thoughtseize prevelant in the meta, more often than not you are not racing your opponent to 20, but more so 14-16. The cyclops excels at that. Obzedat, Ghost Council was in consideration, but was cut due to prolonging the game. This deck is not built to prolong the game past the reanimation turn. once your creature hits play, you are setup to win that turn, no need to grind it out, because they may be able to come back from it. even Nicol Bolas was too slow, as he only did 7 damage and discarded their hand.

again, combo decks are not made to grind out games and make them, especially in a format like modern where you are racing to T4 win or you are not playing competitively.

I have played this list many times, and to date have only a handful of losses. the one dead card that used to be in there was Time of Need which has since been replaced by Signal the Clans .

Thanks though for your input, very appreciative because it forces me to look back at my deck and defend my card choices :)

August 7, 2014 3:50 p.m.

numberoverzero says... #5

Well thought-out responses to all points, thanks! I agree with nearly everything you've written, except the first point in #1 and most of #2. Let me try to break down my thoughts on Manamorphose vs Gitaxian Probe first.

Manamorphose vs Gitaxian Probe

  1. Manamorphose is a red source for Fury of the Horde which is relevant before drawing 7. After drawing 7, and especially after drawing 14, I don't think this is a compelling point. I'm willing to admit that there are games where you won't be able to draw 14 and need to find 2 red in 7 cards, but I don't think those matches are as common as matches where you'll face a Mana Leak , Spell Pierce , or especially Spell Snare . I'm willing to yield to lack of exerience here, but from the UWr control side I'm at 3 Snares and trying to go to 4. I used to run 2 pierce, and I currently run 3 remand, 3 leak.
  2. I don't see how Manamorphose helps you "free cast" any of the 2cmc spells you've listed - all your lands tap for mana of any color, and there's in fact a risk that if you draw into one of those spells off of Manamorphose, you'll have selected the wrong colors before the card draw.
  3. "Pact of Negation takes care of disruption" is a reasonable defense once Griselband is on the field given the insane pile of cards you're looking through. When you're trying to resolve the first Goryo's Vengeance however, it probably won't be in your first hand. Gitaxian Probe also doesn't take care of disruption, but if you don't have a pact in hand it lets you know if your Vengeance is about to walk into a Spell Snare. If so, you know to either wait a turn, or go off on their end step and then Noxious Revival the Vengeance to the top so you redraw it. If life for some odd reason was a concern, it will cost you one less by making blue with a land, or can be cast for the same lifeloss as a Manamorphose without using a land.

Noxious Revival vs Pact of Negation

This card is almost identical to pact for combo decks - there are two differences and, since the edge cases have large payoffs for combo decks, they're worth comparing.

Noxious Revival is better in any one of the following situations:

  1. While going off you are in someway irreprably disrupted and cannot finish the kill until the next turn (such as needing an extra set of mana from tapped lands). Pact would be a loss, Revival gives you a draw.
  2. You are on the draw, and opponent t1 Thoughtseize a Vengeance out of your hand. I don't see why anyone would scoop to your hand, when they can take the kill spell out easily. Pact would kill you next turn (your t1) but you can simply Noxious the discarded card at their EOT and it doesn't matter.
  3. You are about to fizzle mid combo, and need a critical card that has already been played that turn. Fury of the Horde is a great example - once you start the chain, Noxious Revival are Fury of the Horde 5-8. Consistency is paramount, and there are enough problems dealing with opponents' hands already to worry about fizzling to your own draws. Noxious Revival reduces this chance to basically 0 since you can set up your next draw to contain the critical card to loop again.

Pact is better than Noxious Revival only when all of the following are true:

  1. There is one spell that will disrupt your play (or 1 per pact in hand)
  2. You lack the card draw to Revival the countered spell to the top of your library and re-draw
  3. You lack the mana or red sources to recast the spell once Revival'd
  4. You absolutely will not fizzle this turn or in any other way be disrupted once this disruption is removed, and you don't care about the next turn's upkeep.

If #1 isn't true, a second disruption spell could force a loss next upkeep. If #2 isn't true, you don't have to pay the extra potential cost of scooping to bad draws. If #3 isn't true, you can revival at their EOT and go again next turn (or revival immediately and Manamorphose/Probe). If #4 isn't true, you may fizzle and pay the extra potential cost of losing to bad draws.

Summary

A longer post on technical play in aggressive combo decks is something I've wanted to write up for a long time, and you've convinced me to give it a shot. If you watch any of the SCG Open Series, the Portland Legacy segment has some brilliant games of combo navigating piles of cheap hate. Lacking Cabal Therapy in Modern, I believe Noxious Revival is the next best option for combo decks to exhaust opponents' resources - doubly so in decks that rely on card draw to win, as it provides mid-combo protection.

I like the list and have no doubt you've been tuning this tightly since its inception - however, consider trying 4 Noxious Revival in the main and move the 2 pact to the SB. I don't think you'll often 9ever, tbh) run into situations that Pact would have been better, and plenty of cases where shrugging off a t1/t2 Thoughtseize or Spell Snare is the difference between a win and a fizzle.

August 7, 2014 5:23 p.m.

numberoverzero says... #6

You convinced me to take a stab at adjusting the list :)

G Diddy

I ended up keeping Manamorphose since I added 3 Desperate Ritual - this version wants to start on the draw, so I needed more mana acceleration, which lead to needing mana fixing - Manamorphose is back. With more card draw (4 Gitaxian Probe ) the Noxious Revival can easily be used to re-loop a Fury without an extra Griselbrand activation. That's probably important, but I haven't played it at all. I imagine Desperate Ritual allows us to Looting and Wild Guess mid-combo to find more pieces, since it can accelerate mana.

I cut Through the Breach because it seems like a lot of mana, and I want to make more consistent t2/t3 wins - I think there are enough looting and drawing effects to allow this.

August 7, 2014 6:08 p.m.

Dorotheus says... #7

I haven't been following the changes to your list, I've been busy myself working toward GP.

I don't like City of Brass anymore for Cannon lists. I don't think the situation where responding to the trigger could save you the game.
I REALLY do not like Signal the Clans , at all. I've played it in budget decks, and its just way to random. At that point I'd rather play like Kiki, Grisel, and Emmy with Jhiora in the same deck, and make more of a sneak attack deck with an alt wins.

August 7, 2014 9:20 p.m.

cmskinny says... #8

Lol, this is super fun when the combo works out!

I just playtested it; it took me a couple of hands of seven to give up and just draw the perfect hand and play it out. Really fun and reliable once you see it coming together, +1.

August 8, 2014 8:30 p.m.

Khanye says... #9

@dorotheus. i have 3 win cons in the deck. Signal the Clans make sure i get 1 of them randomly, and can be cast off Manamorphose at the end of their turn. its worked beautifully for me so far

August 8, 2014 9 p.m.