Improper deck manipulation
Asked by Rayenous 8 years ago
So yesterday, I was at my LGS playing Modern.
I was a little tired, and my opponent was playing a little quick.
He cast Serum Visions and Gitaxian Probe almost at the same time.
Focused on the Gitaxian Probe, I started to lay out my hand for him to look at.
While doing this, he finished deciding how he wanted to scry for his Serum Visions. - He put one top, and one bottom.
When he put his deck down, I cut the deck, thinking he had just fetched.
Any idea of 1) who is at fault for what? 2) What is the rules behind improper cutting/shuffling of a deck. 3) What should be done in this scenario?
- We ended up calling the Judge, taking my opponents word, and putting on top Spell Pierce he said was on top and on bottom the Mountain he said was on the bottom... shuffling the rest of the deck.
The more I'm thinking about this, the more I realize... since he couldn't cast, let alone resolve, both Sorcery spells at the same time, I believe you would try to 'revert' back to a state before he cast these spells.
At this point, there would be a number of penalties.
Probably:
- Warnings to both for failing to maintain board state (Possibly not, as the actual board state hasn't changed)
- I would look at and choose a card from his hand to shuffle back into his library, since he had drawn off the improperly cast Serum Visions (I don't think he had drawn off the Gitaxian Probe yet, if he had I would pick 2)
- Warning? (not sure what the penalty should be - Illegal Action?) to me for shuffling out of sequence/timing?
- Possible warning to him for looking at my hand? (Possibly not, as I 'revealed' it, somewhat of my own accord)
February 22, 2016 2:29 p.m. Edited.
Rhadamanthus says... Accepted answer #3
At Competitive REL and above you would likely receive a Warning for a Game Rule Violation, because you committed a Game Play Error that doesn't fit in any of the more specific categories. It's up to the Judge's discretion whether or not to try and back up (it depends on how disruptive to the game state they think it will be). Since your opponent "split" the scry, a possible way to "un-cut" the deck would be for the judge to look for those two cards next to each other and then put the two halves of the deck back the way they're supposed to be.
Regarding the fast play with the Probe and Visions right next to each other that encouraged you to reveal your hand: a Judge would likely just instruct everyone to play more carefully since no rule was broken. If the Judge thinks your opponent was purposefully trying to use a confusing out-of-order sequence of actions to trick you into revealing information, it may be treated as a Communication Policy Violation.
February 22, 2016 5:15 p.m.
This May Be Complicated...First, tell your opponent to slow down. Basically to not play two cards at the exact same time.
You were correct to call over the judge you could ask the judge to check for the mountain and Spell Pierce, just to make sure they're actually there.
Your opponent played the two cards basically simultaneously.
This is a violation. It is a violation that doesn't fit into any of the major categories of violations.
Now remember, you do not have a time machine
It is the Judge's decision. If the judge doesn't suspect the opponent of breaking rules, then the judge may advise that everyone should play slower.
If the judge believes it is a violation, there will be appropriate punishment for your opponent.
For example, if your opponent was cheating, that would've been a really good strategy for him! Especially if you are playing a deck w/counterspells. For example, sees hand, oh
WOULD YOU LOOK A THAT, HE CAN'T Counter My Ulamog! Wow!
Now I'm going to search my deck really quickly...This is an amazing combo of cards, if your opponent wants to cheat, at least
A. The Probe not only revealed the cards in your hand, but it also got you distracted!
B. The Serum Visions allows the player to put cards on the top AND bottom of their deck. This could allow them to fetch, and they'd have a pretty good excuse!
But Remember, It is all up to the judge. Just make sure the opponent plays slower during the remainder of the match.
DJSeras says... #1
Sounds to me as if both you and your opponent had a lapse of attention/judgment that led the the event described.
February 22, 2016 1:50 p.m.