Jumping Into Modern
Modern forum
Posted on Aug. 18, 2013, 1:54 p.m. by CanadianShinobi
As rotation approaches I've been considering leaving standard play and delving into Modern. However, I have no experience with Modern decks, and the card pool is rather intimidating. Are there any articles, or general advice to be given to players looking to join the Modern format?
CanadianShinobi says... #3
@operationremieI'm mostly interested in control. Essentially if you give me Blue I'll mix it with anything. However, if I had to pick a specific combination of colours, I would pick Esper.
August 18, 2013 2:48 p.m.
Funny because Modern is very harsh on control, there's hardly any successful control decks out there from what I know. Your best bet will probably be combo/control, something like splinter twin or another combo with light disruption.
August 18, 2013 2:53 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #5
@ Goody : that news alone would make me reconsider entering Modern.
August 18, 2013 2:56 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #6
Goody: looooool, two of the top four decks at World's in Modern were R/W/U control, including Shenhar's deck, which he won first place with.
CanadianSamurai: Prettymuch everything is viable in Modern, it's just up to you to make it work with the card pool. You do have to get used to combo decks, but there are other options and ways around it. It's basically just overcoming the learning curve. A lot of the decks are not straight forward in the same way they are in Standard. You have to learn how various combos work and how to disrupt them. Modern has a lot of really fun interactions between cards and decks, you get to play a lot of great cards, but it's an entirely different environment. I enjoy Modern because you have a larger card pool, a lot of deck options available to you and an environment that WotC has monitored to prevent it from becoming like Legacy or Vintage (neither of which I can stand, comboing out on dredge or storm turn one just takes the fun out of things).
I've recently made a return to Modern after finding a place that holds Modern on Mondays and another that holds Modern while FNM is going on, I've been having a blast.
August 18, 2013 3:17 p.m.
I just heard that blue control was much less prevalent in Modern than in other formats, due to the lack of powerful cards like Brainstorm , Preordain , Counterspell , etc.
August 18, 2013 3:21 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #8
@CanadianSamurai Tron decks are generally very affordable and are, pretty much, the only "Control" decks I've seen in modern.
U Tron can be seen here: I Fight For the Users!.
R/G tron can be seen here: Tron: Legacy... just kidding, Modern.
A good resource to have is mtgtop8.com where you can select the "Modern" tab and see what is doing well in the format.
August 18, 2013 3:27 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #9
Blue still has options available to it like Cryptic Command , Remand , Serum Visions , Spell Snare , Pact of Negation , etc. They banned cards like Ponder and Preordain in order to slow down combo decks, blue control unfortunately suffered from it as well, but it was pretty necessary and blue is certainly still playable as proven by Stark and Shenhar at the World Championships.
August 18, 2013 3:34 p.m.
If you want Esper, I would suggest Esper Gifts. It can be built pretty cheaply, it's fun and provides varied gameplay. It's what I run and it's great. My list is here: A Gift Best Served Cold
August 18, 2013 3:43 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #11
@ Jp3ngu1nb0y your list is over $500, if that's constructing a deck "cheaply" in modern I may have to opt out lol. However, I realize Modern will probably have a higher price point due to the wider card pool, that being said I suppose I could make adjustments where necessary. The deck looks hilariously fun to play though.
I have another question while on the topic of Modern. Could someone explain to me the value of cards such as Misty Rainforest ? Does their value lie in thinning the deck to draw answers or would another land simply be of equal value?
August 18, 2013 4:05 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #12
Fetchlands are mostly used for mana fixing (for instance, jund wants a green open on turn two for Tarmogoyf and two black available on turn three for Liliana of the Veil ). There are other ways to do it as well (filterlands, etc.) you don't necessarily need to use a fetch, but they are the best way because of shocklands being available in the format.
August 18, 2013 4:13 p.m.
Thinning out land from a deck is one of many uses from the fetch lands, although they have their other purposes as well. In formats such as Legacy and Modern, one has more leverage to work out their ideal mana base. You can start to consider how many lands are required on the battlefield for the deck to succeed, what range of colors are needed for the deck to succeed, and what's the most efficient way to get to that point.
At this point, cards such as Misty Rainforest become a commodity as you gain access to the colors you need and in the process prevent that land from just being a dead draw a few turns down the road. If you like Esper control, a playset of Marsh Flats and the assorted array of shock lands gives you that much more access to at least two colors of your deck. You can effectively go search for Hallowed Fountain , Watery Grave , or Godless Shrine without spending any mana. Of course in Legacy, this becomes even more relevant as you can search for dual lands that require no life paid to enter the battlefield untapped.
August 18, 2013 4:27 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #14
@ emrakool thanks for the advice. I think I'll tinker with the outline of an Esper deck for a bit. I'll most likely post my idea here before following through with a purchase though.
August 18, 2013 5:06 p.m.
I was just saying you could make it budget, not that I did lol
August 18, 2013 5:14 p.m.
If the format seems overly expensive to you, don't splerge all in on a deck. Kind of work you way up. Most of the tournament decks I have now I got there over time from prize money and dumping 20-50 or so a month.
August 18, 2013 5:19 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #17
I agree with DaggerV. Building over time is a good idea. Also, shop around, it will save you money. I was able to get the majority of the cards in my modern deck, including fetches, a decent amount below average market value by visiting a bunch of different shops, convenience will always make building a deck more expensive. Example: I know a place that basically makes their biggest profits by selling the small common and uncommon cards that most stores in the area don't keep in stock but everyone needs in a pinch at three or four times more than their actual value. So, even though they basically have everything you could possibly need for most decks, it will cost you much to build your deck if you buy your cards there as opposed to shopping around at different stores.
August 18, 2013 5:40 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #18
Also, if it seems a bit much consider this: it is a one time investment. It's not like standard where you have to buy a new deck every other week, instead you watch the spoilers and see if anything good is coming down the pipe, make 1-2 changes, and carry on. All that is well and good unless you are like me and hate playing the same decks over and over... Then you have 11 EDH decks 5-6 modern decks and 2-3 standard decks. Shit's crazy.
August 18, 2013 5:55 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #19
No, so long as I find a deck enjoyable I'll play it over and over again. A single deck can sustain my attention for a fair while until I feel the need for a change. Since I play so much control though I usually stick to cobinations with blue, so at least I have some consistency.
August 18, 2013 5:58 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #20
Well, in order of most popular to least control usually has 4 that are the top "Control" decks.
Tron, UWx Midrange/UWx Control, The Rock, and Gifts Control.
All links are to the mtg top 8 archetype pages.
I prefer Tron for a few reasons, the price to power ratio being one of them. The amount of disruption and control makes you feel in control of the game at all times. Most control decks that I end up playing you feel like you are praying for your topdeck to be an answer and you feel like you are having a controlled fall rather than a parachute.
August 18, 2013 6:06 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #21
Check out Valu-Mart if you enjoy control. Gifts makes for a very adaptable core...The pain in the butt thing about modern control is the variety and gifts let you run the variety to compensate.
August 18, 2013 6:24 p.m.
Oh, and unless you just flat out hating it, you shouldn't drop standard _
August 18, 2013 6:27 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #23
I agree, Gifts Ungiven makes for a very malleable core for a deck.
August 18, 2013 6:29 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #24
I dunno how I feel about standard. It seems to have less of a reward for creativity. I figured shifting to Modern play would open up my options to get creative with decks due to a larger card pool. I'm really liking the idea of building an Esper deck around Gifts Ungiven and Sen Triplets right now.
August 18, 2013 7:16 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #25
That's actually why I hopped back over to modern. I think standard got stale for me. I may take some interest again after Theros cycles in, but if I don't like the emerging archetypes I see, I'll probably just keep it to Modern.
The idea of stripping down a rebuilding a deck every year or so really doesn't appeal to me either.
August 18, 2013 7:39 p.m.
I guess I'm not in the minority when I thought standard was sucking. Despite all the infect and delver decks I had a lot of fun in scars block while Avacyn Restored was in cycle. For some reason post RTR it felt like I was running into the same few decks :/ Though I have no problem building new decks, it sparks creativity in me, I just don't like the current standard, at all.
August 18, 2013 8:14 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #27
I agree. While I have only recently begun playing, I have been able to pick up very quickly on the overall metagame that seems to dominate standard. Now another question: is standard always this predictable? Because if that's true, then all the more reason for me to jump over to Modern play
August 18, 2013 9:17 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #28
Standard moves in waves, by the time rotation rolls around every archetype is pretty much established and the power decks are well known. You'll see a lot of people dropping cards from the previous block around this time to "prepare for rotation" at the expense of win %.
In early October you'll see a rash of aggressive decks dominate until control figures out the most effective answers. The only times things REALLY change is when a set with a total build around card is released AND the pieces it needs to be effective are present in the format
August 18, 2013 10:40 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #29
What would be an example of a build around card and its respective pieces? And so, ultimately then standard is a predictable format. Since it seems aggro is always a consistent go to for the win. Personally I hate aggro.
August 18, 2013 11:03 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #30
Aggro is always a go-to. It's usually straightforward enough that you can't really go wrong.
A card like Unburial Rites is a build around, or Burning Vengeance but Vengeance didn't take off in standard. With Rites, aside from good fatties you'd need cards to guarantee you can get them in the yard; stuff like Lotleth Troll , Grisly Salvage and Faithless Looting have played that role in the current standard. They make the deck work.
August 18, 2013 11:50 p.m.
I'm doing the same thing, incidentally, dropping Standard for Modern come Theros rotation. In fact I've already made the transition to Melira Pod, though I'm going to pull out the Standard deck for one more go in Baltimore this weekend.
Just to be clear, the top 4 decks at Worlds were not control. Reid Duke played Bogles (still can't believe that) and Josh Utter-Leyton played that new red-less Jund-style deck. The others were UWR decks, and while they do play counters, it's more like the UWR Flash decks out of Standard than the Esper Control decks. They play very differently and maybe OP has a preference to suit Flash (or not).
If you really want to play control and aren't sure about the switch to Modern, I'd consider Mono-Blue Tron. It is the traditional control kind of deck in that it plays a lot of counters (typically 9 in the main and several more in the side, plus some bounce). Best of all it only costs around $200 to build from scratch. It might let you have a look at Modern without too much investment, which should give you a good idea of where you'd want to go next without committing to any one thing too hard.
It also shares many cards with Gifts-type decks, so if you wanted to go that way you're already part of the way there.
As far as the format itself...I love it. The plays are so much more entertaining than Standard. thoughtful play is rewarded, and even the aggro decks (meaning just Affinity) require a lot of decision-making. Just about every deck has something to do that is so much more entertaining than what you can do with any Standard deck.
August 19, 2013 8:04 a.m.
Oooh, ooh! I can help here! I have good news! Prevailed and I will soon be beginning an article series on Tappedout entirely dedicated to modern - especially new players, as it seems to be growing in popularity exponentially. Look to that in a few weeks and you'll be on your way, trust me!
August 19, 2013 10:12 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #33
That's good news for me then. Despite my short time playing it doesn't surprise me that Modern play would become more popular especially since, as far as my observation goes, surprises in standard are far and few between. Especially since Modern can reward creativity. As for the top 4 decks at the World Cgampionship... Well that's not concerning Magic is a hoby for me. I would never get overly competitive. Besides I revel in creative design not copying someone else.
August 20, 2013 12:24 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #34
If u run G or B fetches also provide mana ramp for Deathrite Shaman . Turn 2 out that Liliana of the Veil
August 20, 2013 2:30 p.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #35
Then the Gatherer is your friend. If it's creativity you want, then plug through every modern legal card and start taking note as to which cards you like or think are good build around cards. The only problem with is the amount of other people doing the samething. You may come up with a deck only to realize that someone else has had the same idea, only they've done it far better then you have. Modern is more of a playstyle format...a format where you choose a deck based on the way it plays and how you feel while piloting the deck. It's about getting to know your deck deep down, almost like a best friend...(Unless you're a pro and just understand how every card can and will interact with others). Even with pro players you see them stick to the same "style" of deck. Look at Finkle, Storm to the end. pro players have their ears to the ground when it comes to the meta game and are more likely to run a deck they think is best suited for a field, but you notcie certain pros who just have an affinity to one type or style of deck then others. Kibler is a great example...you can almost put money on it that he is showing up with some sort of green/white heavy aggro/midrange deck. A great way to start out in modern is to find an established deck in an archtype you enjoy, and learn the metagame with it. That way you understand what the other decks are trying to do and you can build a style of deck that fits what you want to do by going over the top or stopping other decks from doing what they want. I have seen many people in this discussion point you towards mono blue Tron. I think as a control player it's a GREAT place to start. Even better is the fact that you can move to a Gifts Ungiven deck within the Tron archtype. UW Tron is a nice control deck that runs a gifts package.
If you're serious about playing control, let me know. I have a fully built extra copy of UTron if you're interested. $120 and I'm a bit flexible.
August 20, 2013 2:33 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #36
ConBurnMadMan So what shifts the meta game in modern? Surely the introduction of new blocks has far less of an impact. Is it simply experimentation on the part of highly experienced players?
August 20, 2013 10:03 p.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #37
No, it's more of a push from this direction then a push back from another. One deck sits at the top which forces decks out that don't have a good match up. When the decks that get pushed out start to decline, the decks that were pushed out prior can make a come back. Some of those decks have answers to the new deck on top and the cycle starts over. Sometimes one card CAN have an impact on the power level of a deck in the meta...DRS is considered one of the best cards in modern and it was released in RTR. Modern also has more to do with sideboard cards. Sometimes cards you carry in the sideboard make it into the main deck over time, sometimes a long forgotten card gets remembered, and sometimes you find yourself in a big tournament and have decide what you think will be the bigger percentage of decks being played and sideboard for them. This can make some match ups weaker, but gives you a better shot at making it through the swiss. If you think Jund will be 40% at a tournament, you should dedicate atleast that percent of your sideboard to that matchup. There's a reason pros playtest and usually end up on one deck. They try and guess the meta and then build a deck to attack that meta. When I say build I basically mean find an established deck that attacks the expected meta and tweak it. You'll see seven pros on the same deck, but maybe only one makes it through the swiss with the exact same decklist as the others, sometimes with a few card differences based on preference. There's a reason why Jund in some form or another is always around...it's super consistent. The bad thing about that for non-rich/non-pro/new players is that the consistency has driven up the prices of the core cards in the deck.
Hope this answered your question.
Modern is also a lay over from extended...so many people already had experience with the cards and their interactions, this cuts down on creativity by a large amount. Some modern decks are merely better forms of decks we saw in their standard metas as well.
August 20, 2013 10:26 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #38
Twin Exarch is a good example of "Some modern decks are merely better forms of decks we saw in their standard metas as well."
You could run the same type of deck with W instead of U and use Brave the Elements effects instead of counterspells to beat removal. You could use Village Bell-Ringer , Midnight Guard or any number of the W creatures to enable the combo.
The problem with that is that I'm not the first one to think this, I'm not the first to TRY it, and it hasn't happened yet.
To loosely quote Rhadamanthus "Just because you think it will work doesn't mean that it will work how you want it to."
August 20, 2013 10:46 p.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #39
I agree with Ohthenoises. The decks represented in the modern format that consistently get played are there because they are very, very good decks. Sometimes what you try is decent but folds to the fact that these decks are so finely tuned. Building a new competitive deck isn't impossible, but the cards that have great synergy already have homes in great decks. I know you said that you hate aggro, but that's the best place to start if you're trying to be different and new in the modern meta. Also, aggro in modern is more fun to play and actually has lines of play that you need to make correct choices on. It's a shame the best aggro card is $120 though!!
August 20, 2013 10:57 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #40
You can almost build all of Affinity for what goyf costs.
August 21, 2013 12:36 a.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #41
Arcbound Ravager x 4=$60
Mox Opal x 4=$148
If you want a good version of Affinty you'll still be spending a hefty amount. The manabase is expensive as well.
August 21, 2013 12:41 a.m.
MTG_Player says... #42
If you like conrol go for U-tron, gifts, or make your own
If you like aggro go for naya aggro, affinity, infect
August 21, 2013 12:46 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #43
ConBurnMadMan I said almost :P and besides, no fetch lands to worry about, just blink/ink nexus and Glimmervoid which, last I checked, were all hovering around $10.
That being said I like legacy affinity better.
August 21, 2013 1:38 a.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #44
Legacy Affinty is the boss!!
I think Affinty is a fine modern deck as it is right now though. It's a great choice for an unknow meta that's for sure.
August 21, 2013 1:40 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #45
Would someone mind explaining what Affinity is? I have a very tedious grasp on the Modern meta at best. I think I'll have to go against your advice for the aggro. I simply fail at it, believe it or not... I tend to work best with concrete examples, and representations, so over the next few days I'll do a it of research and then post a deck here, the deck will essentially be a "wish list" for the deck I hope to achieve for Modern play. From there I'll be able to delve a little deeper and not feel as if I'm being bombarded with information. No offense meant, so far this has all been extremely helpful, just a lot to absorb.
August 21, 2013 3:59 a.m.
Artifacts Galore! here's your affinity. It goes for a turn four pounding with overseer, galvanic blast, cranial plating, etc.
August 21, 2013 8:47 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #48
There are multiple versions. One runs Tezzeret agent of bolas like mine: Domo Arigato Mr. Roboto Modern.
For more information click here.
Affinity is so named for cards that have the ability but the build has morphed into "good robots that run Thoughtcast ".
August 21, 2013 10 a.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #50
For anyone interested I have posted my deck that I hope to one day achieve: Jumping into Modern: Esper Experiment. I hope that you will continue to provide excellent advice and am extremely thankful for that which has already been given.
operationremie says... #2
it might seem intimidating but it's really up to you what you want to play. there are so many tier 1 and 2 decks that it's possible to win with anything.
what would you be interested in, color-wise, and someone could go from there?
August 18, 2013 2:27 p.m.