Bañ incoming for Amulet Bloom?

Modern forum

Posted on Jan. 7, 2016, 7:53 p.m. by Atony1400

So, If you get the SCG newsletter, like I do, you may have seen that there is speculation about a possible (but very likely) ban on Amulet Bloom in modern. Does anyone else have any information on this?

If you don't get the newsletter...

(I linked and bolded things that were linked in the actual article for your convenience. :) )

Ban incoming for Amulet Bloom?

Nice to meet you Amulet Bloom. Goodbye! I'm typically not one to get into conversations about bannings and unbannings. My opinion is usually, "whatever happens, happens," and I'll adjust accordinglybut what I saw Bobby Fortanely do at #SCGCIN was too silly for even me to handle. Sometimes it takes actually seeing broken things happen for one to fully understand the problem at hand, and watching Fortanely cast a Turn 2 Primeval Titan through a Remand was more than enough for me to kiss this deck goodbye. So congrats to Bobby Fortanely for doing what so many tried to do before him getting Amulet Bloom banned from Modern.

So where does that leave us for #SCGCHAR this weekend? Well, Amulet Bloom is still legal for another week or two, so perhaps we'll see many gravitate to that deck while they can still play it, or perhaps people will try to beat the broken deck with an influx of Blood Moons and Fulminator Mages. Either way, we'll find out this weekend as Chris VanMeter, Andrew Boswell, Ken Crocker, and the rest of the @SCGLive crew bring you all the action from The Queen City for the second event of Season One of the SCG Tour.

If you can't make it out to #SCGCHAR, be sure to watch all the action at twitch.tv/scglive!

- Cedric Phillips, Online Content Coordinator

SCG is being very cocky in this article:

Thanks a lot for ruining #SCGCHAR Brian Huffman.

I kid of course. #SCGCHAR was an absolute blast for so many reasons. I got to play some Magic for a change, Chris VanMeter and Andrew Boswell, two of the SCG Tour's finest, set their decks down and picked up headsets for @SCGLive, and Jeff Hoogland and Todd Stevens made Top 8 for the second weekend in a row to further their chances of qualifying for the #SCGPC.

How did Huffman ruin #SCGCHAR? By destroying everyone with Jund of course.

Now, I know what you're thinking: Bobby Fortanely just won with Amulet Bloom last weekend at #SCGCIN, so why am I complaining about Jund winning? Because, astute reader, I have grown tired of watching the Jund menace destroy all comers, and it has done so yet again. So complain I will about Brian taking care of Joshua Cho and his W/B Tokens deck in the quarters; about Harlan Firer and his U/R Splinter Twin deck in the semis; and about Bob Huang and his Goryo's Vengeance deck in the finals, demonstrating not only that Huffman's deck was fantastic, but by beating those three SCG Tour mainstays, proving that he's pretty fantastic too.

So what's next for Modern? A banned and restricted announcement in just a few days! Do we finally see Summer Bloom bite the dust? Is it time for Splinter Twin to go? Perhaps Goryo's Vengeance is on its last legs? Your guess is as good as mine, but what I do know is that Oath of the Gatewatch is prepared to shake up every single format. With new Eldrazi, the Oath cycle, and awesome new planeswalkers, Magic is in for a big change.

Since the SCG Tour is on a break this weekend, get out to your local prerelease, crack some OGW packs, and have a blast. Just don't be like Brian Huffman and play Jundunless you like winning of course.

- Cedric Phillips, Media Manager

I doubt it. It's a small enough force in the meta, and while it can win T2 (with a fantastic hand), it falls flat on its face against hand disruption and removal.

January 7, 2016 7:59 p.m.

GoldGhost012 says... #3

I've heard there's a small group of pro players trying to get the deck planned. Wonder if they're employed/sponsored by SCG.

January 7, 2016 8:14 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #4

FAMOUSWATERMELON, I'm going to post the article in a minute so you guys can see where I'm coming from.

January 7, 2016 8:15 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #5

January 7, 2016 8:21 p.m.

GoldGhost012 says... #6

That seems like an awfully confident message.

January 7, 2016 8:26 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #7

I think a T2 Primeval Titan sent the message,

January 7, 2016 8:30 p.m.

kengiczar says... #8

This has always been possible...just like T2 Kiln Fiend kill, T2 infect kill, or T1 Blood Moon are all possible.

I haven't seen the match, did the Remand player actually use it at the right time?

January 7, 2016 8:40 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #9

I have no clue.

January 7, 2016 8:41 p.m.

Monsmtg says... #10

I hope it doesn't get banned. I don't run it, but to me it and lantern control represent the last forces of zany deck building in Modern.

January 7, 2016 8:42 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #11

WOTC seems to be cracking down on Modern, I feel that this new ban-list is going to cause alot of contraversy.

January 7, 2016 8:47 p.m.

wakawakawaka says... #12

amulet bloom loses to Blood Moon, Fulminator Mage, Sowing Salt-like effects, and sometimes Thoughtseize. It's a strong deck but not only is it inconsistent (compared to twin) and easily counterable (just because you run a forest doesn't mean you're going to find it 100% of the time g2), it's also really uncommon and hard to play optimally. I really doubt amulet pieces will be banned.

January 7, 2016 8:47 p.m.

PreZchoICE1 says... #13

GoldGhost012 the same group that got birthing pod banned.

January 7, 2016 8:48 p.m.

That one example not only takes a godhand, but also no disruption from your opponent on his first turn (whereas Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek are very real things) and no removal/Abrupt Decay T2. The chance of that happening in Modern is about 0.001%. Given a godhand and no disruption, I can think of a LOT of ways to pull off a T1-2 win in Modern given a godhand and no disruption. This one example doesn't prove anything.

Also, cocky content coordinator is cocky XD

January 7, 2016 8:52 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #15

Theres alot of speculation that Sword of the Meek and Stoneforge Mystic may be unbanned,

January 7, 2016 8:55 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #16

I think it will stick,

January 7, 2016 8:56 p.m.

kengiczar says... #17

Wait, a group was trying to get Birthing Pod banned? Where are they!? I will send the fury of heaven upon them! Mere mortals should not mess with fate. (sharpens Godsend)

January 7, 2016 8:56 p.m.

Stoneforge Mystic is covered in this thread, and it's pretty clear that Wizards would have to fall on their head to unban it.

Sword of the Meek is probably the best contender for an unbanning.

January 7, 2016 8:57 p.m.

PreZchoICE1 says... #19

The thing that is being super overlooked is the skill level required to play the deck. It's not like just everyone can switch to the deck this weekend because well Bobby won with it so why cant I?

The deck needs a ton of experience, and a player who knows the triggers and priorities inside out.

January 7, 2016 8:58 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #20

That thread is where I got them from....

January 7, 2016 8:58 p.m.

PreZchoICE1 says... #21

I hate bans. Ban people who ask for bans. Ban people who spend hours at events crying salty tears & wagging judges ears off about how busted Summer Bloom or Amulet of Vigor are.

January 7, 2016 8:59 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #22

Without bans we'd all lose to decks running 4 Black Lotus or a Turn 3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, or something crazy like that. They're essential to keep us under (slight) control.

January 7, 2016 9:03 p.m.

This thread was moved to a more appropriate forum(auto-generated comment)

January 7, 2016 9:07 p.m.

Rayenous says... #24

The real question about bans is, "Is the deck/archtype/card format warping?"

The answer to that question when referring to Amulet Bloom, and the cards within it is a resounding "No!".

Currently, no deck is more than ~11% of the 'winning' meta, with Bloom sitting, tied with Zoo, in the 7th most common archetype @5% of the meta. - Even infect, which has a much more likely T2 win, is sitting at 4%.
- Reference: mtgtop8.com, last 2 months... (last 2 weeks has the field slightly narrower, nothing above ~9%, and infect is tied with it @5%)


As for unbanning, I still don't see Stoneforge Mystic coming off the list. - One of the reasons Birthing Pod was banned, aside from it being ~35-40% of the meta at the time, is that every strong creature they ever print would have to be looked at in terms of "will this be broken in that deck?", and subsequently reducing the power level of future creatures.
Stoneforge Mystic does the same thing to development for Equipment.

January 7, 2016 9:25 p.m.

This isn't news. People have been talking about banning the deck for many months.

The main issue, as people have pointed out, is that Bloom can do things past what people feel is a reasonable power level for the format. If you watched SCG Cincinnati, you saw a Bloom player cast four Primeval Titans and attack with three of them on turn 3, and the deck also won the tournament.

Despite perceived inconsistency (which is not particularly true), Bloom has draws that are unbeatable regardless of strategy because your opponent has no time to react. Pair that with the fastest available kill in the format and dual pathways to victory that are difficult to disrupt simultaneously and the deck is quite scary to some.

Arguments like "it loses to these cards" and "it's hard to play" don't hold any water.

January 7, 2016 9:43 p.m.

Relevant

Even the guy who won thinks it should be banned! :)

January 7, 2016 9:47 p.m.

PreZchoICE1 says... #27

Even the guy who won thinks its difficult to play. What holds water? A Bucket. There's a hole in this one.

January 7, 2016 10:24 p.m.

kengiczar says... #28

Clearly to beat the god hands of Bloom Titan when they are on the play you should be running Mental Misstep. Oh wait...scratch that, you have to double Simian Spirit Guide into Manamorphose into a the new counterspell that can't be countered once oath drops...

It's a fair point about the fact that if the deck is on the play there is practically nothing you can do against god hands I'll give you that..

January 7, 2016 10:55 p.m.

JakeHarlow says... #29

I'm not sure I've ever liked Cedric Phillips' complacent, self-assured writing style. And I don't think that the Bloom deck should be banned, whatever the designs some SCG pros may or may not have on pushing the deck's banning. It's not utterly dominant. Strong, yes. But still quite vulnerable to many common forms of disruption.

I'll be a bit peeved if the deck gets banned at the behest of SCG's pro stable. That would be a shame for the format.

January 7, 2016 11:49 p.m.

arcdevil says... #30

PreZchoICE1 sounds to me like the only hole will be in your wallet when Amulet gets banned (110% certain it will) and you wasted your money on a non-existent deck

January 8, 2016 3:55 a.m.

arcdevil says... #31

Rayenous puuuuleash dude...

infect doesnt win in T2 THRU DISRUPTION. Amulet does.

infect is trivially easy to disrupt, also everyone mainboards answers to it anyway. amulet isnt, and people doesnt.

and once disrupted, there's high chances that the infect player will just fizzle and die without doing anything the rest of the game. Amulet can still win you on the next turn, doing the same or from a different angle.

Amulet is far, far too fast and far, far FAR too consistant for modern despite what the amulet apologists invested on it try to tell us to cover their asses.

January 8, 2016 4:16 a.m.

IzzetGod says... #32

arcdevil actually, some of the Twin decks have been mainboarding 2-3 Blood Moon which is easily the best card against Amulet Bloom. Usually if the deck tries to go off on turn 2, Spell Snare takes care of Summer Bloom and if you don't have what Bobby Fortanely had (2 Amulet of Vigor) than Remand works against the combo pretty good as they already used a Summer Bloom and the Hive Mind or Primeval Titan is back in their hand.

I do think the deck's combo itself is pretty damn good for Modern when it goes off on turn 2 but something like turn 2 Summer Bloom with no Amulet of Vigor out and getting 3 Bounce Land's out for a turn 3 Titan is not game breaking at all. I honestly don't see why anything would get banned because of the fact that all the cards that are good against it are mainboarded in a majority of decks anyway (Remand, Surgical Extraction, Thoughtseize, Inquisition of Kozilek, some Blood Moon's and some even mainboard Fulminator Mage (Living End) ).

January 8, 2016 8:10 a.m.

Almost every deck has mainboard answers to Bloom. Jund and Junk both pack copious disruption, most Zoo decks run multiple copies of PtE, Merfolk runs both Spreading Seas and Vapor Snag, Hatebears runs search hate, U-Tron runs enough bounce to hold off until they get their combo online, Eldrazi Control runs around six mainboard discard spells, Grixis Control I won't even talk about, UWx Midrange runs counters and Path to Exile, Twin runs counters and occasionally black killspells, Infect can outrun them most of the time. The Titan is not the problem.

If there's one card in the deck that warrants a ban though, I think that Hive Mind is the prime contestant. It will make the deck more reliable on the Titan, so easier to stop, but it won't kill the deck.

January 8, 2016 8:19 a.m.

arcdevil says... #34

the only mainboard answer to it is targetted discard, and currently Jund is waning on the meta. anyway discard wont help you when you look at his hand and see amulet-bloom-hive-pact-titan. it just lets you concede faster.

blood moon is a good answer to the less unfair part of the deck, but its far from widely mainboarded right now (could change in the future if the deck doesnt get banned)

January 8, 2016 8:41 a.m.

Rayenous says... #35

If you Inquisition or Seize and see amulet-bloom-hive-pact-titan... you hit bloom, and then proceed to win before they can (they do not have enough interactivity to win if they can't go all-in on Titan or Hive). gg

Spell Pierceing their Bloom also works just as well.

January 8, 2016 9 a.m. Edited.

arcdevil says... #36

then you just have to win in the next 2/3 turns (SSG or not) that takes azusa to hit the board. easy peasy....

usually when you disrupt a combo deck's nuts hand you drag the game into midgame. with Amulet, you disrupt it just so it comforms to the turn 4 rule...

not ban worthy, at all.....

January 8, 2016 9:13 a.m.

TMBRLZ says... #37

As somebody who was watching Bloom Titan do work before it even showed up on the PT (My roomie and I were looking for rogue Modern decks to play and he stumbled onto Bloom Titan and started heavily piloting it for about two weeks on XMage and in proxy before it showed up on the PT) and somebody who has played with it myself on multiple occasions (He eventually built it and we would use it in our LGS's Modern events when we were working), I will acknowledge fully that Bloom Titan is easily capable of some pretty degenerate stuff. I've watched Jade, my roomie, smash down three Primeval Titans on turn 1. Exactly how, I do not remember, but I know I'm pretty sure it required 3 Amulet of Vigor.

One of the big issues with the deck is the insane speed, the consistency of reaching one of your two potential combos, and the fact that the combos themselves are both incredibly diverse and each one only requires two cards to go off with. That's a big deal when it comes to game winning combos. Needing only two cards and being able to do it by turn 3 or less can be a huge cause of concern.

However - Bloom Titan is NOT unstoppable and can be stopped simply by efficient removal. It also hasn't taken over the format in the slightest and doesn't show up that often to cause a major alarm. Lastly I'd like to point out the number one cause of losing with Bloom Titan...

Misplay. Missed Trigger. User Error.

My former roomie and I (though he longer does) work for our LGS and would hand our decks out to players at the tournaments who didn't have a deck or wanted to try a different one and we handed out Bloom Titan on several occasions. It also was rarely piloted to victory because most players ended up killing themselves.

To be truly successful with Bloom Titan you have to KNOW the deck. Inside and Out. And be able to analyze and follow what cards you have at your disposal in any given situation. You need to know how to use your lands and which ones to get. You need to be able to predict your opponent. You CANNOT hand Bloom Titan to anybody without explanation and expect them to do anything useful with it. It's a deck that requires a lot of knowledge and a lot of practice to be truly played well and is without argument among the hardest decks in the meta and sub-meta for the format to pilot.

Do I think Bloom Titan will get banned? Potentially. Do I think it should be? No.

I have seen that if they do ban it, it will be Summer Bloom that gets banned. I've heard people say other cards but of all the cards that is the one I have to agree with the most. It will turn off all early game potential for the deck. Some claim it will break the deck, which is simply false. It would still be good, and even still competitive, but not nearly as fast.

All in all the deck is fair in taking it's identity as a degenerate and potentially unfair deck (at times). But it isn't God Tier material.

People honestly need to quit whining. I abhor decks like Ad Nauseam and Blue Tron but I'm not whining they need to go away. I hate the consistency of Gruul Tron but I'm not calling for them to ban Urza's Tower.

There are worse decks that could be legal right now. We all know that.

January 8, 2016 9:39 a.m.

PreZchoICE1 says... #38

arcdevil I learned my lesson with Birthing Pod and a teary eyed playerbase. Thats why I don't play Modern. Modern is definitely the most popular format and in turn it has the largest population of crybabies. Im not debating on whether or not it will get banned or not (because with the amount of crying, Im sure its going to happen) but whether it NEEDS to be banned or not. Twin is also a combo deck but because it can't walk through Remand, it's safe, shouldnt be banned. OMG a deck IGNORED a counterspell? A deck that blue cant stop cold in its tracks by just being it's snotty nosed snobby self? Better ban it.

January 8, 2016 11:34 a.m.

PreZchoICE1 says... #39

I'd rather lose to Amulet Bloom than Twin, but thats just me.

January 8, 2016 11:35 a.m.

JakeHarlow says... #40

I agree, PreZchoICE1. I'm not going to be very happy about a ban. The deck hasn't even been around very long. I hope WotC isn't going to be that reactionary. Then again, maybe SCG really can throw its weight around enough to bully the Modern rules committee into following their lead. I hope not though. I feel like SCG's relationship with Wizards is empowering to Wizards primarily, not the other way around. I mean, their entire business hinges upon WotC's decisions and continued success.

Anyway, Modern is filled with whiners and moaners. What a shock.

January 9, 2016 12:43 p.m.

Harashiohorn says... #41

Okay so real fast, look how many decks have come out of the smoking ruins of pod it was Stifleing part of the meta, that is why it was banned. Stop complaining about it.

ANYWAY:

There used to be a deck called Eggs. It was in modern. It made up a very small portion of the meta. It was very hard to play. Second Sunrise is banned now. Why? because in the right hands it was practically unstoppable, I mean sure you could stop it, but it was so hard on the format they banned its most abusive card. Bloom Titan is right on the precipice, it could become the next eggs, but it hasn't quite yet. If it doesn't get Summer Bloom banned, or Amulet of Vigor this go around, its only really one PT win away from losing something. Why? WOTC doesn't like complex combo decks in modern that are difficult to interact with. It's not necessarily Ideal, but that what we've seen thus far.If it weren't for eggs, I wouldn't see grounds for a ban, but because of the precedent... we shall see...

January 9, 2016 4:25 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #42

Well said Harashiohorn!

January 9, 2016 5:24 p.m.

@Harashiohorn

Second Sunrise was banned primarily because Eggs took years to win. The specifically noted problem was with extra turns in tournaments after time is called.

January 9, 2016 5:46 p.m.

Yeah, Eggs wasn't actually that broken a deck. Of course, it was a very solid deck (could maybe make Tier 1.5, though 2 is more likely), but it was in no sense dominant in the meta. It just took eons to cycle through the deck and win. Just imagine playing against storm, except the storm player has to draw his entire deck and then some.

January 9, 2016 5:55 p.m.

DuTogira says... #45

The one thing I haven't seen anyone say on this comment thread is that Primeval Titan is currently limiting Wizards design space. Stoneforge Mystic limits equipment design. Birthing Pod limits creature design. Primeval Titan limits land design space. This wouldn't normally be a problem because of the card's high cost, but the Bloom Titan deck gets around that via massive ramp.
I don't think bloom titan is format warping. Once people start running Chalice of the Void to counter all of their pacts, then I will concede that point, but we haven't been pushed there yet. I do think it is limiting design space, and that is the larger problem.
Do I think Bloom Titan deserves a ban? I could give a flying squirrel, but if it does get banned, I would not be surprised. "Warping the meta" isn't what gets an archetype banned. Restricting design space is, and a very strong argument can be made that Bloom Titan does just this. The fact that the deck isn't warping modern only shows just how hard WotC have been working to keep it from doing so.

January 9, 2016 11:33 p.m.

Atony1400 says... #46

True DuTogira.

January 10, 2016 12:49 a.m.

sylvannos says... #47

I think my feelings toward Titan Bloom are the same towards Pod: I hope we don't have to ban anything, but a ban wouldn't surprise me.

I think Hive Mind and Summer Bloom are the main culprits since they violate WotC's Turn 4 Rule. Despite Storm having only 2 top 8 finishes at a Grand Prix event or higher in the 6 months before Seething Song got banned, they still banned Seething Song for this reason.

Similarly, I could see them taking something out of Affinity and Griselshoal, but I doubt they'll hit three archetypes in one cycle.

January 10, 2016 4:37 p.m.

When's the announcement?

January 10, 2016 4:50 p.m.

kengiczar says... #49

@ sylvannos - Hive Mind doesn't violate any T4 win ideals by itself just as Splinter Twin doesn't. I mean sure you can ramp out the Hive Mind but you can also ramp out a Splinter Twin using Birds of Paradise for a T3 combo kill.

Summer Bloom or Amulet of Vigor are the pieces that really make the deck so fast. Between the two of them Summer Bloom is more likely to be banned because it just functions as Azusa, Lost but Seeking but more efficient in terms of speed and same turn results.

January 10, 2016 5:04 p.m.

Harashiohorn says... #50

Yeah, most people seem to think Summer Bloom is going, its also one of those weird 8th-9th edition cards that generally create trouble in the format anyway. I don't think affinity will see a major hit, since there hasn't been much foreshadowing or calling for that. As for Grishoalbrand, its just too fringe. The turn four rule also talks about the competitive presence of a deck, and that deck has almost none. It's had only one GP win or even appearance I think?

January 10, 2016 7:35 p.m.

This discussion has been closed