Why is this Card Played in Less then 1,000 Decks?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Dec. 20, 2020, 11:22 a.m. by Sultai_Sir
Seriously, Lighthouse Chronologist is broken. A card designed for Modern, it becomes a cheaper Time Stretch, both in mana cost and monetarily, with one of the most ridiculous ceiling in EDH. I've taken more then 8 turns with this card. It's one of the best cards in my Derevi Deck. It should see so much more play then about 1,024 decks (taken from EDHREC). And yes, I know it dies to removal, but so does almost every creature. Does anyone have any ideas?
Sultai_Sir says... #3
It might not be Modern playable, but it was still built for it, with a two turns to one ratio. It wasn't built for Commander, where you'll usually get 4 turns for one. I should put a caveat in the post, because it should only be used for Big Mana decks, or control. You shouldn't windmill slam this into a lot of decks, but it's still a lot better then people think.
December 20, 2020 12:35 p.m.
golgarigirl says... #4
Assuming someone doesn't remove it, it's going to get you hard-targeted by the table once active. Which will be very difficult to deal with if all your mana over the past few turns has gone into turning him on and not developing defensive measures. Best case would be to drop him and get him online right away for 9 mana so you can immediately untap and start defending. Otherwise you're just telegraphing, in blue, that you're not going to counterspell anyone's threats for the next 2-3 turns OR you're not leveling him, which would be a waste of a card slot. Your experience and playgroup may be different (and Derevi does facilitate him a lot better than most commanders), but that's how it would be for me.
December 20, 2020 12:38 p.m. Edited.
Sultai_Sir says... #5
Yeah, I agree that just casting him with no protection or way to turbo his way through the levels is a terrible idea. But he's a lot better then a lot of big threats that put a target to your back for the same investment, like Apex Devastator, Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger, etc. He really is perfect for Derevi though, so other generals might have a much harder time getting him to his final levels.
December 20, 2020 12:44 p.m.
Last_Laugh says... #6
The entire "Level Up" mechanic is garbage because sorcery speed neuters the mechanic. It's sad because Figure of Destiny (card they got the inspiration for level up from) levels up at instant speed.
December 20, 2020 1 p.m.
Your compared creatures are not good examples. Both the Apex Devastator and Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger provide value with their ETB trigger or static ability as soon as they get put into play. They impact the game as they get played. The chronologist provides no advantage at all when you put into play.
I ran a playset of these in a deck for quite a while before finally taking them out. The sorcery speed, no immediate value and how often they get primaried off the table without ever doing anything. I replaced them with card advantage.
There are multiple problems with the card that make it unpopular for people to use it. One, it's slow and fragile to reach the level 7 extra turn goal and needs heavy island investment. The fact it dies to removal may not seem important to you, but it is a fact it does die to removal and opposing decks are more likely to have more sources of creature removal than other types of removal which makes it less popular. And it will get primaried by people who know what it does.
Another reason is that it complicates a game tremendously to keep track of in multiplayer magic. I am sure many people would skip it just because of having to keep track of it. There are many other uncomplicated ways to time walk for yourself or against your opponents. I have had opponents kill it just because they got annoyed at the card screwing with the turn sequence of a game.
And it sucks as a combo piece, which it really is not. So combo players won't use it when deckbuilding for extra turns, casual players won't use it for being a hassle to track, and non-mono blue players will skip it for the mana investment.
Lastly, but an important note, if you are in a 1 vs 1 situation and your opponent has somehow copied the Lighthouse Chronologist and leveled it to 7 as well then it no longer impacts the game as an extra turn source. You both will play the rest of the game in alternating extra turns until one of the cards is removed.
December 20, 2020 1:11 p.m.
griffstick says... #8
That card is on the threshold of casual and fringe cedh in my opinion. I think that card is very strong in the right situation. I've seen that card some serious work before.
December 20, 2020 2:32 p.m.
Right? Like I said, I ran them for a while in a deck that was a great shell to protect it and bring it online with ramping the counters fast. But eventually all they ever really did was serve as removal-bait.
Or net me 1 or 2 turns before people realized which way the wind was blowing.
December 20, 2020 2:51 p.m.
IKILLEVERYONE says... #10
I definitely use that. Along with Magosi, the Waterveil. Use cards like Fog Silence Cease-Fire. I think thats a reason why. Alot of people dont feel comfortable giving up a turn and letting the other player gather power. But not me!!! Silence!!!!
December 20, 2020 3:12 p.m.
griffstick says... #11
After much thought. I think this card fits best in an urza deck.
December 20, 2020 8:16 p.m.
@Sultai_Sir
Lighthouse Chronologist
Is extremely broken, why is it so little played?
Well first reasons have already been provided for you in this post
Second is there is a ton of powerhouse combos that the game recorders / meta makers are havnt cought and uploaded yet. Example todate their has only been one t0/t1 edh hit meta.
And lastly becouse everyone seems to forget that leveling up is a counter, and all the wonderfull proliferate mechanics we gained access to in war of the spark.
were i have seen Lighthouse Chronologist become the biggest problem is in infect Atraxa, Praetors' Voice decks.
December 21, 2020 7:02 a.m.
GhostChieftain says... #13
It seems super busted at first glance, but there are a ton of downfalls. You would be better off jamming multiple extra turn spells because they are easier and more efficient most of the time unless the table is hypercasual and doesn't have any removal. In cEDH there are decks that use extra turn spells and early creature spells, but would never run chronologist despite it being both an early creature and multiple extra turn potential. It is an expensive cost to get there and can easily be stopped at any point, it even gets wrecked by an Unsummon after the last level up and you have to waste 9 more mana again effectively setting yourself back another turn/s. It is fine in a casual setting, but by no means busted because it is so incredibly easy to stop and will in all likelyhood be stopped by one of your opponents.
December 21, 2020 9:35 a.m.
as a turn 2 play with the intentions of paying 7 more into it
i would classify this card as useless
Lighthouse Chronologist should be played like Growing Rites of Itlimoc
Flip
meaning if you cant make it go live the turn you play it then you probably shouldn't play it
now i'm not trying to say this card should be considered as a cedh staple
but in the right deck Lighthouse Chronologist is completely degenerate
to clarify my previous example in Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
it's not used as a early game turn advantage
its utilized later in the game to speed up the infect clock
after everyone has already used up there creature removals on the infect and proliferate bodies
also worthy note: i have seen it hit the board and go live turn 4
in a Omnath, Locus of the Roil lands matter deck
by utilizing Evolution Sage with fetch lands and paying into it.
December 21, 2020 1:55 p.m.
Last_Laugh says... #15
@Ramble - Sage of Hours is better in a dedicated +1+1 counter deck than Chronologist especially with Reyhan, Last of the Abzan, The Ozolith, and/or Forgotten Ancient type shenanigans. A single proliferate per turn from Atraxa is nice for poison/loyalty but it's REALLY slow for +1+1 counters.
December 21, 2020 3:02 p.m.
@Last_Laugh
i think there is some confusion
there is alot of Atraxa, Praetors' Voice +1/+1 counter decks
but i am referring to infect so what you are proliferating is poison counters on players.
in a 4 player pod that's 4 poison counter up ticks per round just off the commander
but then add even 1 other proliferate mechanic and or any other infect abilities
and suddenly you realize your poison counters are probably going to hit 10 before you get to see another untap step.
December 21, 2020 3:40 p.m.
Last_Laugh
i just reread your post
yes in a +1/+1 focused counter deck i would total agree Sage of Hours would be the goto
i would not even consider Lighthouse Chronologist as an option in a +1/+1 counter deck.
December 21, 2020 3:46 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #18
By the time you're investing 9 mana into a single creature to take multiple turns, I will have either already won or am about to win.
December 21, 2020 4:53 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco
ya your probably right
but last Saturday i was playing my Timmy temur deck
T1:i played a forest into Magus of the Candelabra
T2: i floated the green played Simic Growth Chamber
bounced the forest used candelabra to untap chamber
then casted Broken Bond on my buddies signet
put the forest back and then casted Sol Ring
T3: i played a mountain and then casted Skyline Despot
T4: i played Alchemist's Refuge and casted Seedborn Muse
leaving the rest of my mana open for Spell Burst & Voidslime
after this topic today i really can't help but to think
how cool it would have been to have Lighthouse Chronologist in my hand on Turn 4 in that game
idk i might even add it to the deck ive been needing more mana dumps anyways
Thanks Sultai_Sir
December 21, 2020 6:18 p.m.
You said it yourself, it dies to removal. Time Stretch doesn't.
December 21, 2020 6:31 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #21
I am sure it has its place in a very casual setting, where you know the play group, however...in an unknown play group, or even a more competitive meta (not necessarily cedh, but just more competitive), then it will be awful.
December 21, 2020 9:38 p.m.
Daveslab2022 says... #22
I’m just going to touch on the minuscule and irrelevant fact that this card was released in 2010 and modern didn’t exist until 2011, so it couldn’t have been designed for modern.
December 21, 2020 10:19 p.m.
@Daveslab2022
Never underestimate the almighty knowledge of r&d !!!
one puff of thier magical crystal bowl gives them the ability to see far off into the future
Which is why thier are some cards in every set that none of us near mortals can comprehend
Rhox Oracle
December 22, 2020 7:05 a.m. Edited.
RNR_Gaming says... #24
It's not good at all points in the game; only when you're ahead. At most tables this card would not perform that well or if it did the table is either very weak or you were going to win anyways.
December 22, 2020 10:27 a.m.
Sultai_Sir says... #25
Hey, Daveslab2022, I can't believe that slipped past me. I haven't been really paying attention up with magic before Core Set 19, but what I meant was a two-player format. Modern was just the one that came to mind.
December 22, 2020 11:01 a.m.
If you play Lighthouse Chronologist on turn 2 and intend to dump blue mana into it for the next 3 turns, you're playing it wrong. Come on, people! Just because it's doesn't mean it's correct to play it on Turn 2!!
This is a mid to late game card for when you already have access to 9 mana and you have bigger threats on the board already. It's for multiplayer formats where you're going to get more than 1 extra turn out of it every round. You can't compare it to Time Stretch because we're talking about a creature with counters vs. a big sorcery. They go in different decks. Chronologist goes in a simic deck or superfriends deck that cares about proliferating counters, while time stretch goes in an izzet deck or Narset where you're trying to cast free spells or copy big spells.
December 22, 2020 5:31 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #27
If you're pumping 9 mana into anything it should be Tooth and Nail and even that's fallen off in edh. In a modern right now if you're not jamming Uro or Omnath you're not going to have a good time.
December 22, 2020 6:17 p.m.
Honestly.....its bad that I'm thinking of this now....but with one of my decks if I have it in it I could take 5 turns every time I take one....honestly would be the most hated player at the table if I did something like that haha it's all about the text honestly there are cards that copy abilities such as these but watch as I'm saying this more people might play this and be that guy everyone wants to kill first haha
MollyMab says... #2
It is not modern playable. It wasnt even standard playable. The fact is its a huge investment of mana using only blue mana. You play it turn 2. Bring it online turn 4 at earliest and you havent developed your board at all. You arent taking advantage of extra attacks. Or using stuff repeatedly. Because all your mana went into it.
Have a pet card but its slow and heavy investment and dies to removal. And trading 1 card and 1/2 mana for 1 card and 5 mana means by killing it they have time walked you.
December 20, 2020 12:02 p.m.