Why is Tarmogoyf so valued?
General forum
Posted on June 19, 2013, 7:18 p.m. by MisterMaus
I understand it has a low casting cost and a pretty hand effect, but there are other and seemingly greater things out there.
I don't get it.
Epochalyptik says... #4
Moved to General.
Tarmogoyf is a phenomenal tempo beater. It grows extremely quickly in Modern and Legacy, where fetches, instants, creatures, and sorceries hit the yard all within the first turn or two. It's cheap to play and grows basically on its own as the game progresses, which means it offers strong return on investment.
With a mana cost of 1G, it can be run in any deck. Support from fetches, shocks, and duals means it's playable in basically anything multicolored deck.
June 19, 2013 7:39 p.m.
TorrentFreak says... #6
Devonin is saying it is a blue card, because it mainly sees plays in blue decks. RUG Delver in legacy is a good example of this. The Goyf fell out of flavor because creature power crept up and green decks had better things to run. Blue decks need the Goyf as a early game aggro beater. Knight of the Reliquary seems to be the better choice for green based decks. Scavenging Ooze answers goyf quite effectively.
June 19, 2013 8:04 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #7
Because an 8/9* for two mana is awesome.
*conditional, but achievable.
June 19, 2013 8:06 p.m.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here, sylvannos, Storm Crow still exists.
All joking aside, I thought the exact same thing when I fist saw the card. Then I heard about it from so many people that they've convinced me it really is that good, since realistically, that many people can't be wrong about this. Never played against it, but I can see why it becomes so good in its given meta.
June 19, 2013 9:16 p.m.
Decks splash green just for him. There is a reson why he is over 100 dollars
June 19, 2013 9:35 p.m.
Let's not forget the other aspect to his value as well.
Not only is it a good card, but by comparison to today's print run - there just isn't that many of them. Future Sight was popular among old fans, but it was not overly well received by new players that found it too complicated, who still make up a good % of the total sales. So simple supply and demand means there is always more demand than supply, which keeps the prices up.
June 19, 2013 9:40 p.m.
Future Sight was also drafted a lot less, being the third set in the block.
June 19, 2013 10:09 p.m.
Formortiis says... #13
As Slycne said, a large part of his value is in its small print life. Tarmogoyf is great and all, but the card based solely on its gameplay value is (to me) no more than 20 - 25$.
June 19, 2013 11 p.m.
It's a bit like Voice of Resurgence in Standard right now, I guess - not many opened, coveted in 4-ofs for many decks, powerful card no matter how you look at it.
June 19, 2013 11:04 p.m.
Wizard of the Damned says... #15
Doomblade the demon for he is foolish and not worth the gold coins they charge. the Wizard concurs with Formortiis.
June 19, 2013 11:42 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #16
You can say that about any card though.
Thundermaw Hellkite ? Selesnya Charm .
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker ? Clone (at least until m14 comes out...)
Jace, the Mind Sculptor ? Dreadbore .
Thragtusk ? Turn / Burn .
June 20, 2013 1:53 a.m.
my answer to all permanent problems when I played casual and hexproof and shroud didn't really exist....Legacy Weapon :-) Fuckin love that card! I miss it. Times seemed...simpler, somehow?
June 20, 2013 4:24 a.m.
Formortiis: Yeah I feel that about Black Lotus . I mean, it's a good card and all, but honestly it's only worth like $15 in gameplay value. /sarcasm.
June 20, 2013 5:11 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #19
Tarmogoyf 's value comes mainly from the fact that he is legal in Legacy AND Modern which makes him a highly coveted card.
Much like cards that are great in STD and only sometimes in Legacy their value is good until they rotate.
Not to mention only a certain # of them are in circulation right now :)
June 20, 2013 11:53 a.m.
gheridarigaaz says... #20
In layman's terms, it's simple and versatile.
simplicity is part of what makes a card like this so beautiful. you don't have to jump through hoops to make it worth it's money, it's cheap so you don't have to wait to cast it like all the other goyf creatures like Lhurgoyf , Cognivore and Mortivore for example, and it isn't conditionally buffed by graveyards either, it's just buffed by the fact that there IS a graveyard with "THINGS" in it.
you shouldn't care about the fact that it dies to removal. it comes down early and EATS removal, so that's one less removal spell you need to worry about.
if you're looking for an alternative to it, there isn't a lot. As far as i have looked Quirion Dryad does a similar job. trouble is it DOES require building around, and it needs a build-up to make it worthwhile, doing so means that if it dies to removal you just wasted time putting counters on it.
meanwhile if you're looking for answers to it you could go looking at stuff like Death Rattle , Harvest Pyre and Logic Knot and Tombstalker which both can significantly reduce it's power-level by taking your own graveyard out of the equation quickly, I suggest these because the graveyard exile is a cost and not an effect so things like Ground Seal don't affect it and countering the spell doesn't affect the exiling either, matter-of-factly, Tombstalker was briefly an answer to Tarmogoyf for a period.
June 20, 2013 12:33 p.m.
The Goyf didn't really gain a ton of value even when Modern was created. It was already so coveted in Legacy that with its small supply it was already going for a mint.
The biggest thing about those formats is that they're fast. Creatures need to bring a lot of power for a low, low mana cost. Just look at Delver of Secrets Flip ...that card hasn't been able to get a sniff in a decent Standard deck in over a year, but it powers one of the most consistently successful decks in Legacy. The same deck uses Nimble Mongoose , of all things, to great effect. There is a premium in fast formats on a high power/mana cost ratio.
And Tarmogoyf has a good ratio while being more resilient than the others. It's really, really hard to Lightning Bolt a Tarmogoyf to death.
A corollary is that Goyf just wouldn't be very good in Standard. It would grow more slowly and there would be a lot of more expensive cards that never have time to be played in Legacy or Modern that could go over the top of it (it would look horrible against Angel of Serenity , for instance). Put it in a Legacy RUG deck though and it can win games on its own.
Now all that being said, I don't think it's as good as its price indicates. Deathrite Shaman has hurt it. Abrupt Decay has hurt it. I saw a game last weekend where a dominating board with two 5/6 Goyfs on it was just destroyed by the opponent Brainstorm ing into a Relic of Progenitus . There are ways to beat it, and there are more ways to beat it now than there was a year ago. But it takes time for those effects to affect cost, and given the ever-increasing rarity (MM didn't add much to the supply), it's not likely to come back down.
June 21, 2013 9:50 a.m.
timothy130130 says... #22
The point is simple: Tarmogoyf is fast, big, and cheap.
While he can be removed, very few things can't. Plus, Tarmogoyf will always be the target of removal, offering a shield for other creatures that can benifit a combo or have a greater effect the longer they sit out.
He was only printed once (I think), meaning supply is very low, while demand is very high. Legacy play can triple of more the price of a card, and most legacy decks run/could run him.
While I don't see myself paying 130 big ones for 1 card any time soon, or ever, I can see why other MTG players use him. Of course, you have to use him correctly.
March 15, 2014 6:25 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #23
Im sure after eight months the TS understands why now, timothy130130
March 15, 2014 9:13 p.m.
Think about this, and although this is a bit idealised, the first 2 turns and can and will happen often. Turn 1 Verdant Catacombs into Thoughtseize on a non-sorcery thingy (ideally planeswalker). Turn 2 cast your 3/4. Turn 3 Lightning Bolt (or for 1 more power Tarfire because why not?) their blocker, and swing in with your 5/6 (or 6/7 in the scenario which won't happen). Main 2 play another, and laugh. Basically, it's really strong turn 2, or turn 9. It will be a 2/3 to 4/5 early-game, and on turn 8 a 5/6 or 6/7 is still a very nice draw. It's good because you're never unhappy to get 3 of them in a game (except when they Leyline of the Void lulz)
March 16, 2014 1:07 a.m.
I think all you guys are forgetting how good Scornful Egotist is.also, i might get a tarmagorph. they are great and my friends really want 1...
September 2, 2015 7:55 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #26
This thread is over two years old. No one cares.
Scornful Egotist comes from a set that contained cards that actually cared about high mana costs, so it had its uses back in the day.
Devonin says... #2
It's the best Blue card in magic.
It's so trivially splashable that you can run it in anything, and in control builds, it is a HUGE stopper to early-game aggro and gets big enough to keep holding the door closed even into midrange.
It is basically the best wall ever printed, since it can swing for 4 or 5 damage after you've finished clearing their board out.
June 19, 2013 7:25 p.m.