Lotleth Troll

Creature — Zombie Troll

Trample

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: Regenerate Loleth Troll

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Lotleth Troll Discussion

Blackerlotus13 on Karador, the Returned Prince

57 minutes ago

@Zhugo12 if everyone agreed with everything I was doing, everyone's deck would look exactly like mine, which is why I'm glad there are people that disagree with my logic. That being said:

I might take out one of the dorks for a Solemn Simulacrum, I understand completely that permanent ramp is superior to the mana creatures but they also do serve a dual purpose. Solemn is one of those creatures that can help in a similar fashion. now I also am keeping my basic land count low on purpose for Hermit Druid which is a beast by himself.

Right now i am fighting to get Solemn Simulacrum, Fauna Shaman, Nostalgic Dreams, and Mindslicer into the deck. Lotleth Troll is on the outside looking in at the moment although I do see a value in that kind of creatue, shaman is just superior at the moment although its just once per turn.

Blackerlotus13 on Karador, the Returned Prince

1 day ago

Thank you for your extensive Analysis there. Its obvious you put a lot of thought and theory into this. I appreciate all thoughts on the subject. While there are a few things I would change in the deck, I actually like for the most part how it runs and could not bear to make 30+ changes that would turn it into something that isn't my deck at all. for some reason I actually prefer the mana dorks over the rocks because they die easily, they're food for Karador, and Skullclamp. Lastly With a lot of fetch lands I have little trouble getting out my colors within the first 2 turns. I am currently trying to obtain a Bayou, and a Scrubland but it might take about a month.

The reason why so many good cards are sitting in the Maybe board right now is because I am trying to fit some of them in the deck. the problem is that sometimes im trying not to be a butthole with the deck ALL of the time, so while my deck might be riddled with 5,6,7 drops, I have little to no trouble getting them onto the battlefield for the price of 1,2,3 mana. I am a huge Timmy at heart, and like to get as many big mommas onto the field as possible, and I absolutely adore reanimator as I used to play Recurring Survival about 10+ years ago in vintage. Also Im not trying to put infinite combos in the deck if at all possible, just playing out utility every turn is good enough for me.

Sadistic Hypnotist, Solemn Simulacrum, are already trying to get back into the deck, im thinking about changing Farhaven Elf into Yavimaya Granger as she puts herself back in the yard. Lotleth Troll, and Fauna Shaman, are cards I will do some looking in to as I do see their value.

Wall of Blossoms, and Wall of Omens are good to have in a deck like this but not my version, if I took out my Dredge engine i could 100% see myself running more card draw, but the fact is im trying to get as my cards into the grave as fast as possible even if it is by random means. I have Life from the Loam to get land cards back, and as you stated I might have a few "too many recursion outlets" those are all there by design. Sun Titan abuses the enchantment recursion that gets milled, with my current set up, i have very few needs to draw cards all of the time, as putting cards in the yard is sometimes better than drawing, which in turn gets me my removal, also Hermit Druid is a hell of a drug.

Having board sweepers, or single shot spells in my opinion takes away from the flow of the deck which is why Magister of Worth will be going in as a reusable outlet. Not too many times will you see a table willing to allow you to barf your graveyard onto the field.

As a final note. Decks like these are always difficult to pigeonhole because everyone will play it differently. The arguments you make for the cards you advocate are all valid points, as for me I prefer to spin the wheel with the mills and see what winds up in the yard, and have cards like Survival of the Fittest, Buried Alive, and Entomb to pinpoint the bombs. The Dredge engine, the Mesmeric Orb, the Deadbridge Chant are all part of it. The mana dorks paired with the land fetching creatures seem to do the job pretty well, whereas you have to be lucky enough to draw your mana rocks.

Gotta love Karador debates. Your Move Kaiba :P

Zhugo12 on Karador, the Returned Prince

1 day ago

Graveyard Recursion!!! Its time to put on our necromancer hats, and get jiggy with the dead! Im a huge fan of recursion, and at one point, had 3 different styles of graveyard decks. Here is how you classify graveyard cards: Gas Pump, Pedal, and Car. The Gas Pumps put creatures in the graveyard, making your life easier (why recur it after it dies, when you can play it out of your graveyard for cheaper?). Fuel is the actual Return from Graveyard card. The Cars, are the creatures you intend to actually get back from the graveyard. Your deck is lacking in Gas Pumps. You have Mesmeric Orb which randomly might toss things in the grave (random=not as good in this case). You have Buried Alive and Entomb which are perfect cards, One dollar (mana) per gallon (creature in grave) of gas? Sign me tf up!! They should never be taken out. Grisly Salvage does this a little bit, but its a gamble of whether or not you will find creatures on the top (again random=bad). Jarad's Orders are good, but it only puts one creature in the graveyard, and it costs four. Four dollars for a gallon of gas is too much. Survival of the Fittest is fantastic, because again, it is one dollar per gallon of gas, and it also tutors (there is a good reason for its price). Deadbridge Chant is too high cost, and too random. You noticed that you have a hard time putting creatures into your grave, let me resolve that issue with three cards: Putrid Imp, Lotleth Troll and Fauna Shaman. Choose what you want to discard, and do it under two mana, and for the first two: AT INSTANT SPEED!!! (useful when someone might make you exile your hand, or perhaps play cards from it). Now lets talk about your Pedal. You run A LOT of recursion cards. Id argue, too many. Defining Recursion as anything that can reach into a graveyard and put a creature on the field of course. You run 3 enchantment forms of recursion, and 3 sorcery forms, 6 creature forms. In general, the sorcery ones are better because then your opponent cant use enchantment removal spells to destroy your big creature. Here is my problem with your flood of recursion: it is overly redundant. Your general does it, and does it well. I have very little need to use one-shot recursion spells when I can use my general once a turn, and if I use my creatures that return creatures ( Karmic Guide, Reveillark, and Sun Titan are the three I run ) then I can return more than the prescribed amount per turn. I would oust Sepulchral Primordial. It costs too much and doesnt recur from your own graveyard (which is usually the strongest graveyard to recur from). You have Dread Return in your maybeboard. That is one of the 2 one-shot recursion spells I run (not counting Living Death and Twilight's Call ). It is strong because it provides two recursions for four mana and three creatures. Its a sac-outlet that sits in your graveyard and blindsides opponents. Theyll never see it coming. Overall, you have too many recursion spells for not enough Gas Pumps and Cars. Onto the subject of Cars. Youre pretty well set as far as Cars go, but imam share my favorites. Iona, Shield of Emeria is a card that on its own can wreck mono-colored decks. Avacyn, Angel of Hope is brutal. Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger is simultaneously spot removal, mill, and a beater. Gotta love it. Final favorite: Woodfall Primus. Its spot removal, its a beater, its persist. ITs LOVELY.

Zhugo12 on Karador, the Returned Prince

1 day ago

Graveyard Recursion!!! Its time to put on our necromancer hats, and get jiggy with the dead! Im a huge fan of recursion, and at one point, had 3 different styles of graveyard decks. Here is how you classify graveyard cards: Gas Pump, Pedal, and Car. The Gas Pumps put creatures in the graveyard, making your life easier (why recur it after it dies, when you can play it out of your graveyard for cheaper?). Fuel is the actual Return from Graveyard card. The Cars, are the creatures you intend to actually get back from the graveyard. Your deck is lacking in Gas Pumps. You have Mesmeric Orb which randomly might toss things in the grave (random=not as good in this case). You have Buried Alive and Entomb which are perfect cards, One dollar (mana) per gallon (creature in grave) of gas? Sign me tf up!! They should never be taken out. Grisly Salvage does this a little bit, but its a gamble of whether or not you will find creatures on the top (again random=bad). Jarad's Orders are good, but it only puts one creature in the graveyard, and it costs four. Four dollars for a gallon of gas is too much. Survival of the Fittest is fantastic, because again, it is one dollar per gallon of gas, and it also tutors (there is a good reason for its price). Deadbridge Chant is too high cost, and too random. You noticed that you have a hard time putting creatures into your grave, let me resolve that issue with three cards: Putrid Imp, Lotleth Troll and Fauna Shaman. Choose what you want to discard, and do it under two mana, and for the first two: AT INSTANT SPEED!!! (useful when someone might make you exile your hand, or perhaps play cards from it). Now lets talk about your Pedal. You run A LOT of recursion cards. Id argue, too many. Defining Recursion as anything that can reach into a graveyard and put a creature on the field of course. You run 3 enchantment forms of recursion, and 3 sorcery forms, 6 creature forms. In general, the sorcery ones are better because then your opponent cant use enchantment removal spells to destroy your big creature. Here is my problem with your flood of recursion: it is overly redundant. Your general does it, and does it well. I have very little need to use one-shot recursion spells when I can use my general once a turn, and if I use my creatures that return creatures ( Karmic Guide, Reveillark, and Sun Titan are the three I run ) then I can return more than the prescribed amount per turn. I would oust Sepulchral Primordial. It costs too much and doesnt recur from your own graveyard (which is usually the strongest graveyard to recur from). You have Dread Return in your maybeboard. That is one of the 2 one-shot recursion spells I run (not counting Living Death and Twilight's Call ). It is strong because it provides two recursions for four mana and three creatures. Its a sac-outlet that sits in your graveyard and blindsides opponents. Theyll never see it coming. Overall, you have too many recursion spells for not enough Gas Pumps and Cars. Onto the subject of Cars. Youre pretty well set as far as Cars go, but imam share my favorites. Iona, Shield of Emeria is a card that on its own can wreck mono-colored decks. Avacyn, Angel of Hope is brutal. Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger is simultaneously spot removal, mill, and a beater. Gotta love it. Final favorite: Woodfall Primus. Its spot removal, its a beater, its persist. ITs LOVELY.

Zhugo12 on Karador, the Returned Prince

1 day ago

So, you asked me to look at your deck, and I'm glad to say that I want to help!!

My concerns for the deck boil down to five categories: Mana, Draw, Removal, Recursion, and Pot Pourri Tips and Tricks.

Let's talk mana first. You're a heavy advocate for mana dorks, and I can tell both by the discourse on this thread, and your comment on my deck ( Karadorable ). Here's my thought on it: I love the concept that they keep Karador's cost low if they are in the graveyard, while providing the mana to play him when theyre on the field, but of your Mana Dorks, all but 2 of them produce Green mana. This is rather problematic. Mana rocks like Golgari Signet, Orzhov Signet, and Selesnya Signet simultaneously filter mana (you can pay black into a Selesnya Signet and get the other two colors) and net gain it (1 mana in, 2 mana out). Additionally, Mana Rocks stay on the field much longer than Creatures. If a white, red, or black deck just sneezes in the vicinity of a 1/1 or 2/2 Mana Dork, they'll keel over and croak ( Spore Frog joke tbh, *see the last paragraph for explanation). Artifacts are more stable than creatures because most white, black, and red field wipes focus on creatures. Artifact removal is only held by 3 colors, and even then, in a multi-player game, your Mana-Rock wont be the target of removal (for the most part, they wont be collateral damage either). Also I like most of your lands, but the temples bother me. Temple of Plenty and Temple of Malady are slow af. I dislike lands that enter tapped, and if they do, they better give me something better than Scry 1. Thats my personal opinion on the matter, many players disagree. Also, if you are running Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth you might want to be running Cabal Coffers as well. Your mana curve is not smooth, which can be problematic because when you curve out so high, the cards that cost more than four take up a whole turn and things get messy. You are running lots of 5, 6 and 7 cost creatures. Its not easy to keep tempo with a jagged curve like what you have. Your ramp could use some diversification too. Its not a good idea to put all your ramp-eggs in one basket (creatures #ManaDorks)

Now lets talk draw. Draw is very powerful, because no one wants to be Top-Decking in order to win. Draw gives you choices, choices give you power. You have six or seven tutor abilities, and those tend to be very strong (although I dont like Diabolic Tutor as it costs 4) but some regular old draw abilities are very strong. I see that you have a Skullclamp which is very good, but perhaps Sylvan Library and Phyrexian Arena would benefit the deck. They are consistent, and harder to remove than a creature is. Having consistent, hard to remove draw (because enchantments are only removable by green and white) is incredibly powerful. Draw Power gives your engine gas. I like your discourse regarding Smothering Abomination and I see that you include Harvester of Souls. My contention with these two is twofold. First: they cost too much to play you want to draw by second, third, and fourth turn. Second, they require your deck to already have a decent board state to get going (you need creatures to be on your field and dying in order of them to trigger). You need card draw most when your board state is bleak, so in my opinion, cards that draw are best when you can use them on their own (IE the ones I recommended). As far as One-shot creature draws, I use Wall of Omens and Wall of Blossoms. I was a skeptic of these cards at first, but early game, their draw power is strong, and any creature with an Enters the Battlefield effect, can be reused and abused by Karador when you do what my friends call Graveyard Blinking (Kill the creature, return the creature). Overall, this deck would benefit from some good draw cards.Onto the topic of removal. I was disappointed to see that this deck is sorely lacking spot and mass removal. There are ZERO field wipes in this deck. I have a friend who plays Karador like this, and it makes me feel bad. There needs to be some field wipes. White has all the good wipes man!!! Wrath of God, Day of Judgment, Merciless Eviction, Toxic Deluge etc. I dont use as many as I should in my deck, because I run only 3, but I run a lot of spot removal. I typically advise 4 or 5 field wipes as a minimum. You have one pseudo-field-wipe in the maybeboard, Massacre Wurm is super deadly against some decks, 10/10 would recommend. Especially since you love creatures (obviously youre running a 36 creature deck). Magister of Worth is aptly named. I love the card, and am still trying to find room for it in my deck. It is WORTH #Value!! I would advise adding a few wrath effects for certain. NOW LETS DISCUSS SPOT REMOVAL. First of all I noticed you have no white one cost instants. DUDE. Where are your Path to Exile and Swords to Plowshares?!?! Two best white cards in the game man!! I like your Aura Shards, its always a dank card. Someone in this thread also mentioned Anguished Unmaking, and I agree. Non-specific removal is the ish. It just makes so much sense. Three cost card that just makes your life easier. I understand your motivation to not make the deck overpowered, but removal makes decks political, playable, and fun; not overpowered. Get a Vindicate now that they cost less than ten dollars. Get a Putrefy or Mortify, both are also very versatile and fun spot removal cards. I compliment your Acidic Slime and Sheoldred, Whispering One for being good, but 5 and greater cost removal (and non-targeting removal) is slow, and not at instant speed (if I can solve the problem my opponent makes during the turn they make the problem, it frees up my turn to do my own board-construction). Against decks that play one permanent per turn (many green decks) low cost removal spells function similar to inexpensive extra turns, in that it invalidates the board construction that your opponent is attempting.Graveyard Recursion!!! Its time to put on our necromancer hats, and get jiggy with the dead! Im a huge fan of recursion, and at one point, had 3 different styles of graveyard decks. Here is how you classify graveyard cards: Gas Pump, Pedal, and Car. The Gas Pumps put creatures in the graveyard, making your life easier (why recur it after it dies, when you can play it out of your graveyard for cheaper?). Fuel is the actual Return from Graveyard card. The Cars, are the creatures you intend to actually get back from the graveyard. Your deck is lacking in Gas Pumps. You have Mesmeric Orb which randomly might toss things in the grave (random=not as good in this case). You have Buried Alive and Entomb which are perfect cards, One dollar (mana) per gallon (creature in grave) of gas? Sign me tf up!! They should never be taken out. Grisly Salvage does this a little bit, but its a gamble of whether or not you will find creatures on the top (again random=bad). Jarad's Orders are good, but it only puts one creature in the graveyard, and it costs four. Four dollars for a gallon of gas is too much. Survival of the Fittest is fantastic, because again, it is one dollar per gallon of gas, and it also tutors (there is a good reason for its price). Deadbridge Chant is too high cost, and too random. You noticed that you have a hard time putting creatures into your grave, let me resolve that issue with three cards: Putrid Imp, Lotleth Troll and Fauna Shaman. Choose what you want to discard, and do it under two mana, and for the first two: AT INSTANT SPEED!!! (useful when someone might make you exile your hand, or perhaps play cards from it). Now lets talk about your Pedal. You run A LOT of recursion cards. Id argue, too many. Defining Recursion as anything that can reach into a graveyard and put a creature on the field of course. You run 3 enchantment forms of recursion, and 3 sorcery forms, 6 creature forms. In general, the sorcery ones are better because then your opponent cant use enchantment removal spells to destroy your big creature. Here is my problem with your flood of recursion: it is overly redundant. Your general does it, and does it well. I have very little need to use one-shot recursion spells when I can use my general once a turn, and if I use my creatures that return creatures ( Karmic Guide, Reveillark, and Sun Titan are the three I run ) then I can return more than the prescribed amount per turn. I would oust Sepulchral Primordial. It costs too much and doesnt recur from your own graveyard (which is usually the strongest graveyard to recur from). You have Dread Return in your maybeboard. That is one of the 2 one-shot recursion spells I run (not counting Living Death and Twilight's Call ). It is strong because it provides two recursions for four mana and three creatures. Its a sac-outlet that sits in your graveyard and blindsides opponents. Theyll never see it coming. Overall, you have too many recursion spells for not enough Gas Pumps and Cars. Onto the subject of Cars. Youre pretty well set as far as Cars go, but imam share my favorites. Iona, Shield of Emeria is a card that on its own can wreck mono-colored decks. Avacyn, Angel of Hope is brutal. Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger is simultaneously spot removal, mill, and a beater. Gotta love it. Final favorite: Woodfall Primus. Its spot removal, its a beater, its persist. ITs LOVELY.Okay, last topic: Random tips and tricks I like to use:-Sacrifice Karador after you use his ability for the turn, so that you can play him again if your graveyard is particularly full, and you just need another recursion for the turn (be careful not to get too greedy and over-extend).- Use Spore Frog every turn in a two player game. Its a tactic called Turbo Fog accomplished with a Frog So Turbo Frog. Ribbit.- Solemn Simulacrum Is simultaneously some seriously smart draw power and mana ramp. Get one. - Get some fast pants!!! Lightning Greaves and Swiftfoot Boots are both excellent ways to get haste on a baddy that you get into a graveyard then onto the field. Essentially, pump your gas, get your Pedal, and then get your car moving all in the same turn. - Sadistic Hypnotist is currently chilling in your maybeboard, but dude, it costs nothing to sacrifice a creature (yay more sac-outlets!!) and its hand disruption!

smackjack on Regenerate multiple deathtouch

2 weeks ago

3/3 Lotleth Troll attacks. Blocked by 2 1/1 deathtouchers. Do you need to regenerate twice.

lagotripha on Delirium in America

2 weeks ago

I like the deck idea, but I feel like there isn't enough card advantage being utilised- Mishra's Bauble and Bedlam Reveler are fantastic cards, but I feel like you'd do better playing some Life from the Loam shenanigans, the traditional bob, or mainboarding a set of Nihil Spellbomb Faithless Looting or Night's Whisper.

I guess it all feels a little unfocussed- it has a good blend of removal and discard protection for powerful beaters, but it doesn't feel like enough fuel with all of it being instant and sorcery based. I'd feel a lot more confident running a spine of Lotleth Troll/Grim Flayer/Gravecrawler/Bedlam Reveler/Gnarlwood Dryad with Life from the Loam/Edge of Autumn/Pack Rat or Seismic Assault as the endgame plan. With all the graveyard hate floating around Grafdigger's Cage might even be worth it maindeck.

NamelessX on (UB Zombie Tribal) The Hollow Horde

3 weeks ago

The only zombie discard outlets I can think of are Putrid Imp, which dies to your Heartless Summoning and Lotleth Troll, which is off color. Maybe Rancid Rats, but, as you said, none of this will make the existing deck more consistent.

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