(2), Remove a card in your hand from the game: Return target card from your graveyard to your hand if it shares a type with the card removed this way.
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Holistic Wisdom Discussion
1 week ago
Been a while since I commented. I'll try to respond primarily to those points that others haven't already addressed.
Thought-Knot Seer is expensive to cast and doesn't really perform a vital function in this deck, given that its abilities don't have a high impact.
Stax is a challenge. This deck does have the means to outpace some stax decks by ramping extremely aggressively, but sacrifice engines in particular are effective at keeping utility creatures from having a great deal of impact. I haven't played in several years (apart from the casual 60-card game here or there), so I'm not really qualified anymore to assess how this deck competes with more modern Tier 1-Tier 2 stax decks.
This deck would rather not play Zendikar Resurgent or Mana Reflection because they need to be hard cast and are more difficult to find. Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger would be a stronger choice in that respect (because it's Tooth and Nailable), but even then it hasn't made the cut. I leave that to players' discretion, though. Some people may find that the redundancy is important in their meta.
As a combo deck, this deck can normally outpace most noncombo aggro decks. Certain commander damage decks can pose a threat if unanswered. And don't forget that you can chump block with utility creatures if you have to. Surviving in a difficult position is preferable to being out of the game entirely.
I do feel that way about Consecrated Sphinx from time to time. Unfortunately, having not played in a true competitive multiplayer environment in a long time, I can't say with certainty whether it needs to be replaced. The mana cost is the biggest downside, but it's a powerful backup draw engine that's much less risky than Damia herself.
Stroke of Genius is serviceable, and there are ways to recur cards from the graveyard just as there are ways to get them back from the library. I use Blue Sun's Zenith because mana is not an issue by the combo turn and the win con is safer (from hate effects) in the library than in the yard.
Timetwister is an interesting choice, and certainly something that becomes more potent as this deck becomes faster. I would test it.
Arbor Elf ramps, but Crop Rotation does not. I'm not sure if they're comparable in terms of slot consumption. In some metas, the land tutor may be more important because there may be a greater dependence on cards like Boseiju, Who Shelters All.
I don't recommend playing Demonic Consultation unless you're playing Laboratory Maniac, and I don't really think this deck wants to play either (although it could be built in such a way that they're more viable). Demonic Consultation presents the issue of exiling potentially necessary win conditions in order to find a combo piece, and it's never really completely safe to use. Similarly, Tainted Pact isn't in the deck (and is actually covered in the "Omissions" section). I don't think there are many cases where I'd so desperately need a single card that I could risk potentially exiling every other card for it.
It's true that Crucible of Worlds is a good card, but every card in this deck is a good card. Crucible of Worlds doesn't really provide necessary functionality to this deck, though, so I wouldn't call it one of the best cards and similarly wouldn't be able to justify increasing its redundancy at the expense of some other functionality.
Lots of feedback there. I'll try to respond to as much as I have space for.
Rising Waters is an issue because this deck really wants to maximize its mana availability.
Future Sight was in a much earlier version of the deck, but was cut because the cost outweighed the value. Some people may prefer to run it, but I don't.
Pendrell Mists is a good stax card, but this isn't a stax deck. I'd rather keep my utility creatures at the risk of letting other people keep theirs.
Autumn's Veil has some potential. I've never really experimented with it in the 99, though.
Night's Whisper is not as preferable as a draw engine, in my opinion.
Notion Thief could be good in some cases, and I haven't actually tested it in the deck, but there weren't very many times where I think I would have (and would prefer to spend) the mana on it given its inconsistency from game to game.
Brainstorm was in an earlier version of the deck, and it could still justifiably be run given all of the fetch lands, but I prefer to spend the slot on other cards.
Baleful Strix doesn't really do enough to justify spending the mana.
Trinket Mage is a more expensive and more limited tutor than those already in the deck.
Arcane Denial is in the deck because it's a hard counter for , which I'll gladly take in the final turn.
Three Visits and Nature's Lore are important ramp cards and cannot be cut. Skyshroud Claim could potentially be cut on a cost basis, but it's very powerful and pays for half of its own cost on resolution.
Mindslaver is not something this deck needs. I don't really want to spend to control someone's turn if I could spend much less to get myself closer to actually winning. It's not good without a recursion combo or when facing multiple opponents.
Academy Ruins could be played, but I don't really need to recur any of the artifacts in this deck as much as I need access to on-color mana.
Omniscience is not necessary. My primary win con is an spell, which doesn't benefit at all from Omniscience and does benefit from an infinite mana combo (the latter of which enables just as many other cards as the former).
1 week ago
Since you already have Primal Command, which can can put it back into your library, then search the library, maybe Holistic Wisdom to recur either Panglacial Wurm or the Command? Not quite what you were looking for, but the closest I could find.
2 weeks ago
odd mechanics in green:
Bellowing Tanglewurm, Beacon Behemoth, Avoid Fate, Cream of the Crop, City of Solitude, Brooding Saurian, Heartwood Storyteller, Gurzigost, Genju of the Cedars, Gaea's Liege, Freyalise's Winds, Fertile Imagination, Eyes of the Wisent, Engulfing Slagwurm, Elven Warhounds, Elephant Grass, Hermit of the Natterknolls Flip, Hidden Gibbons (and the other hidden creatures / enchantments), Dosan the Falling Leaf, Holistic Wisdom, Hornet Sting, Hunted Troll, Ichneumon Druid, Kashi-Tribe Reaver (and the rest of kashi-tri, if only for the lockdown mechanic), Lifeforce, Lignify, Lost in the Woods, Mammoth Harness, Meandering Towershell, Midsummer Revel, Mindbender Spores, Mortal Wound, Multani, Maro-Sorcerer, Nacatl War-Pride, Nature's Wrath, Night Soil (okay, this one is odd - because the colon is after the removal of creatures, it happens faster than players can respond or trigger to - it happens at the "cost" step of activating the ability), Noxious Revival, Panglacial Wurm, Permeating Mass, Planeswalker's Favor, Protean Hydra, Quirion Druid, Recycle, Revelation, Riftsweeper, Rite of Passage, Root Maze, Rootrunner, Rust, Scarwood Bandits, Sprouting Phytohydra, Sporogenesis, Spike Tiller, Sheltering Ancient, Selvala's Charge, Sekki, Seasons' Guide, Wave of Vitriol, Wonderlust, Vernal Equinox, Unyaro Bees, Typhoon, Tropical Storm, Tornado, Tempting Wurm, Tempting Licid, Symbiotic Deployment, Superior Numbers, Stunted Growth, Wild Mammoth, Wolfcaller's Howl, Worldspine Wurm, Xantid Swarm, and Yavimaya Dryad
3 months ago
Some stuff I think I accidentally added, but wanted to actually discuss first:+Necropotence (Do we wanna go there?)+Yawgmoth's Bargain (Theres no combo pay-off that I can see. Is this card still too dangerous?)+Ancient Tomb (Fast mana is fast, but then again you do become arch enemy pretty fast)+Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite (is this too much?)+Spellweaver Volute (this card is just weird, but seems like it could be cool. Thoughts?)
- Verduran Enchantress
- Mesa Enchantress
- Argothian Enchantress
- Eidolon of Blossoms
- Enchantress's Presence
- Aura Shards
- Mirri's Guile
- Heliod, God of the Sun
- Quarantine Field
- Prison Term
- Faith's Fetters
- Darksteel Mutation
- Aura of Silence
- Karmic Justice
- Sterling Grove
- Abundant Growth
- Wild Growth
- Utopia Sprawl
- Mirari's Wake
- Debtors' Knell
- Nyx-Fleece Ram
- Bear Umbra
- Luminarch Ascension
- Awakening Zone
- Grasp of Fate
- Suppression Field
- Holistic Wisdom
- Sacred Mesa
- Limited Resources (I realize this card is extremely oppressive)
- Fertile Ground
- Trace of Abundance
- Mana Bloom
- Dovescape (Im just curious about this card. Cant tell if its good or not. Certainly interesting!)
- Earthcraft (theres a cute combo with Squirrel Nest if we decide we wanna do that)
- Privileged Position
- Glare of Subdual (This gets pretty brutal with Seedborn Muse and Prophet of Kruphix in the format. Just something to think about.)
- Khalni Heart Expedition
- Oath of Druids (Finally a card we can break lol)
- Evolutionary Leap
- Primeval Bounty (is this good enough? Seems interesting at least.)
- Bounty of the Luxa
- As Foretold (Yeah boi)
- Golgari Germination (works across archetypes)
- Necrogenesis (a few decks might want this)
More stuff for Orzhov Drain:
- Trade Secrets (cards cards cards)
- Treasure Cruise (fuck it)
- Dig Through Time (fuck it twice)
- Metallurgic Summonings (Spells payoff that packs a punch)
- Mizzix's Mastery (without payoffs like storm or turnabout I think this is safe)
- Jori En, Ruin Diver (maybe not good enough)
- Melek, Izzet Paragon
- Kolaghan's Command (must include now that artifacts is an archetype)
Notes on Enchantress:
First, the payoffs are not super broken. There arent that many cards that REALLY reward you for having or interacting with enchantments, but once the deck comes together its highly synergistic. We could make people more interested in choosing Enchantress as an archetype by adding lots of g and gX enchantment-based mana acceleration in place of cards like llanowar elves (while still leaving the best dorks). Decks that would be interested in ramping might suddenly find themselves interested in enchantment cards like wild growths of bounty of the luxa. What do you think?
Also, Im worried that enchantress skews removal in general towards white. Since so much of the archetypes pulls are removals, we end up having more white removal in the cube.
3 months ago
Nice deck going on here!
plus 1 from my side for sure :) Yeah, so let's get down to business. I love combo decks with low CMC, though I am not so much a fan of infinite combos - but who I am to talk with abzan company in modern and rhys the redeemed infinite combos in EDH.
So, what about replacing Arbor Elf with Crop Rotation? Helps to get the right utility lands in no time with that many tutors available in this decklist. Or cut one land. I mean, you have 37 lands while having a CMC of 2.48 and are playing just three colors. I guess you went down with CMC quiet a bit over time - maybe you didn't with the lands?
Then did you ever consider playing Holistic Wisdom as recursion? You got 23 instants, 37 lands and 17 creatures. Apart from just the obvious recursion you could play like Strip Mine several times a turn in combination with Azusa, Lost but Seeking/Oracle of Mul Daya/Exploration. Furthermore it's another ability you can use at instant speed and honestly, I am envious about your commander - she's just asking to trade unsuitable cards in hands with powerhouses in your graveyard ;)
Also taken exactly your commander's ability into account Commandeer might be something for you in order to steal problematic and important spells like let's say your enemies commander. I would sort out Spell Pierce as it doesn't do much in the late game and Commandeer can be played from turn 1 on just like Spell Pierce
Keep up your awesome work! cheers :)
Well - that's already all I got.
4 months ago
From looking through MagicalHacker - List of All Recursion Cards, I found the following five cards:
7 months ago
Cards I'm not playing
Cards I want but cost money
- Survival of the Fittest would be sick. Like a Fauna Shaman with Haste!
- Gaea's Cradle should be in every green deck, and also should have never been printed
Imperial Recruiter finds like half my deck.
- Mana Drain sounds like something that's worth holding up two mana for
- Rhystic Study is a great early play. It's not ramp, but it slows your opponents down, so it kinda is.
Good cards that I've cut for better ones
- Progenitor Mimic has been in and out of the deck a lot. I've found that Duplicant is usually better, since it's actually removal as well as a clone, at the same cmc.
- Mimic Vat is strong, but not really on theme with the deck and didn't really fit anywhere once I broke the deck down into categories
- Hull Breach is good enough that I'll probably end up playing it at some later point in time. 4 kills for 4 mana with Riku out.
- Terastodon got cut for a Natural Order package. Ironically, the two would go really well together, but I've found that Avenger of Zendikar is good enough off of Natural Order.
- Body Double was nice, since it's a clone that even worked on an empty board, and could also be Podded into to create two four drops to pull off a Kiki-Conscripts combo the next turn. It's not in the deck anymore because I needed to cut something and I figured there was a reason why Rise From the Grave wasn't seeing play.
- Archaeomancer was great as another way to pull off infinite turns, but it's enough worse than Eternal Witness that it got the ax in the process of streamlining the deck.
- Tolaria West is out because it's a tapland and none of my other lands are good enough that they're worth paying 3 mana for.
- Strionic Resonator I've found to be a bit win-more, but it's still better than Parallel Lives because it doesn't just work with Riku
- Sphinx of Uthuun would be played if I could Natural Order into it, but feels a lot weaker than my other curve-toppers when I'm paying full price for it
- Deceiver Exarch/Pestermite were cut because I found I could make infinite creatures with Kiki-Jiki often enough with just Conscripts in the deck, and they're a lot worse on their own.
- Holistic Wisdom as with a number of these cards, I've found that with this many tutors, it's better to have a more streamlined deck with diversified answers than duplication of effects. I can tutor for Eternal Witness, but not for this.
- Palinchron was given up in a trade for a Snapcaster Mage, and, honestly, I don't miss it. It does make infinite mana and infinite Palinchrons with Riku and 9 starting mana, but with the deck in its current configuration, I can combo off earlier and equally consistently anyway.
- Comet Storm was there just in case I wanted to kill in one turn with infinite mana, but I've found that's not worth a card slot once the deck as a whole got better.
- Strip Mine is of better use in my Xenagos land destruction deck. Also, this deck is better off laying down threats than answering them, and would rather have a mana base that just lets us cast all of our spells when we want to.
- Brainstorm was in when I had more fetches, but it's not as good now that the fetches are in Modern decks.*Recurring Insight draws a hell of a lot of cards, but also makes you tap a lot of mana without putting something on board. Card draw is good when you're behind because it lets you find something to bring the game back, but when you're behind and tap out to draw cards, your opponents kill you before you get to cast them.
Bad cards that I'm not playing
- Doubling Season, Parallel Lives, and Second Harvest are win-more. That is, they're do-nothing cards unless you're already winning, and thus end up losing you games when they just sit in your hand. Maybe they don't actually do nothing, but in the majority of games, you'd have been better off playing a creature of the same converted mana cost.
- Time Stretch, Blatant Thievery, Clone Legion, Genesis Wave and the like are generally not what we're trying to do here. Sure, it's sweet if you pull off copying it, but you win if you copy enough cheaper spells anyway (as I've said, we're usually not losing after a copied Time Warp. We don't need Time Stretch). These are good control finishers, but Riku is a midrange/combo general.
- Signets are worse than Farseek and friends because they're easier to remove. Green doesn't need signets.
- Reiterate and the like: Riku already does this. They're not needed. Also, since they're so mana intensive, you tend to have hands with all Forks and no real spells to copy, since you cast all your other spells before you had mana available to Reverberate a spell.
Pour one out
7 months ago
I feel like I wont be able to cast Grand Abolisher most of the time due to his WW casting cost. You mostly get green mana (the reason Gemstone Array Nomadic Elf and Orochi Leafcaller are in the deck)and you wont get those till your already parrlaying. Delaying Shield is mainly in the deck to stop commander damage (also stops lifelink and other when deals damage effect), since Selvala put you at a high enough life total that you can ignore most non commander damage and high enough to not die to your own hurricane. Holistic Wisdom does not have to only target untap spell (although it does turn you single target spells into untap all for an extra 2 mana). It also allows you to trade cards you dont need late game into non-rfg pieces (i.e. gemstone array can be traded for an umbra mantle). As for the removal, thats a meta call. I dont see alot of pithing needles, song of the dryads, ect. in my meta, so most of the time those are dead draws.