What was the best era of standard?
Standard forum
Posted on June 17, 2014, 9:38 p.m. by MachineAge
Hi, I only just recently started magic, when Theros came out. I was just curious, what do people think was the best era of standard? I don't know if Theros/RtR is considered a good format, I think that people liked Innistrad/RtR. Please enlighten me, I am curious.
MachineAge says... #3
Cool, what did you think of it? What was the meta like?
June 17, 2014 9:51 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #4
Innisrrad/rtr was great.
Naya blitz, junk reanimator, bant control, boros human aggro, jund good stuff... the mana allowed pretty much anything.
But then again, that's the standard season I started in, and when I first started playing competitively.
biased
June 17, 2014 9:58 p.m.
Homelands = Master race. I never leave home without my Apocalypse Chime
June 17, 2014 10 p.m.
MachineAge says... #7
Haha Homelands. I wish I had been around to experience that. Lel. One look at the cards from that set and I knew it was terrible.
June 17, 2014 10:02 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
I may be biased because of my local meta, but ISD/RTR did a lot of things wrong. The mana fixing was too good, and it caused a spike in the barrier to entry. There were too many powerful midrange options as well. Both of those factors combined to make 4-color goodstuff the deck to play. Perhaps someone with more experience with ISD/RTR can offer a different perspective, but that's what I saw.
ZEN/SOM definitely had its own problems, though. Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Stoneforge Mystic received emergency bannings because Cawblade was so prolific, but I actually didn't mind it. I played a homebrew UB control deck sans JTMS, and my only consistent losses were to Cawblade and RDW/K-Red. I liked the meta, though. Vengevine , K-Red, Cawblade, Tezz control, Twin Exarch (wasn't really popular around me, at least), Pyromancer Ascension , etc.
June 17, 2014 10:05 p.m.
ISD/RTR was amazing. It was such a powerful format with so many awesome decks.
June 17, 2014 10:11 p.m.
MachineAge says... #10
What do people think of the current standard? I dislike how mono black devotion destroys everything else.
June 17, 2014 10:29 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #12
Mono black is just the deck with all the best cards in its colors. I built a net deck version of today's Standard mono black tourney deck and I didn't even know what a net deck was at that point. Anyone looking logically at the pool of cards will come up with mono-black right now. Gary, Pack Rat , and Desecration Demon are just so ridiculous when you have all the removal and card draw you want to back them up. Even emergency life gain. And your sideboard has answers for control and Naya Zoo/RG Monsters, so you really don't have a tough matchup outside of some Hexproof builds.
June 17, 2014 10:37 p.m.
I loved ISD/RTR Standard. Aristocrats was my deck. I knew it inside and out.
The current standard is terrible. It's play "black or green or lose". I hate it, but being a black player at heart I don't mind it too much.
June 17, 2014 10:38 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #14
I started paying attention to formats and such during the Shards/Zendikar Standard and it was probably my favorite thus far. You saw everything in Standard; every color, guild, and shard had multiple renditions that were completely different (and mostly viable). Hell, I went into one tournament with some deck running Prince of Thralls and actually won with it. Oh, and 5-color Progenitus decks were also a thing. It seemed like there was much more variation than you see today. This may have been the meta I played with, but it was the most enjoyable Standard I played in.
I've also heard that the Lorwyn/Shadowmoor/etc. and Shards Standard was fun.
June 17, 2014 10:43 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #15
So I heard Mirrodin/Kamigawa was... interesting...
June 17, 2014 10:43 p.m.
MachineAge says... #16
Not quite @getslayne, black is dominant but green? No. Green isn't that amazing outside Jung and grill builds. On its own it is terrible.
June 17, 2014 10:50 p.m.
gnarlicide says... #17
Mirodin/Kamigawa standard was odd at best.
Kamigawa/ravnica standard, though... Oh lord. Net decking was becoming a thing back then, and it got people picked on quite a bit. As a matter of fact, that was the last standard where I remember a random home brew having a good chance at winning, just on principle that it was an unforeseen threat. I also got my first DQ during that standard for taunting. Apparently, a deck with counters for days, and locking people out from playing is taunting.
Ravnica/Time spiral was fun too. This one was probably my favorite. I vaguely remember that standard being the one where Tarmogoyf
was junk! and worth less than a dollar. Bob was a shitty liability and nobody played him. Glimpse the Unthinkable
was for wack mill players only. And my RDW (Rakdos Deck Wins) was the deck to beat at my shop.
Worst one? Geez... I would say either fallen empires or tempest. I would mainly say tempest... I think it was tempest. Old Schoolers, which standard had combo winter then black summer? Tempest?
Black summer, sounds familiar right about now, eh?
June 17, 2014 11:26 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #18
Ice Age had Necropotence , black summer.
Zen/SOM Standard was awesome.
June 17, 2014 11:31 p.m.
@MachineAge I never said mono green was viable. Green is quite powerful, but not on it's own. The Sylvan Caryatid into Courser of Kruphix decks run rampant across the format with various version of R/G Monsters and the different type of Junk decks such as Midrange, Constellation, and Reanimator. There are also some B/G dredge decks running around. which Junk Reanimator is basically the same deck splashing white. So, nowhere did I say mono green was good, but that green makes up a large part of the Standard meta.
June 17, 2014 11:41 p.m.
miracleHat says... #20
Nobody interested in onslaught? Goblin Piledriver , Goblin Warchief , Goblin Matron , Patriarch's Bidding , Oversold Cemetery
:D
June 18, 2014 12:18 a.m.
miracleHat says... #21
There was also u/w control and Astral Slide cycling decks...
June 18, 2014 12:18 a.m.
MachineAge says... #22
Sorry misunderstood you getslayne, green and black are very strong. I don't have a problem with net decking but I like to make my own. Forking out money is a part of standard if you want to win sadly.
June 18, 2014 12:41 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #23
"I don't have a problem with net decking but I like to make my own. Forking out money is a part of standard if you want to win sadly."
This attitude is dumb and wrong.
To win in standard you need to pilot a deck well and be a good player. You cannot just put down money and win.
And there is also plenty of room for innovation, you just need to innovate with good cards, most of which cost more than the bad cards. The first guy to start playing Pack Rat was playing with a bulk rare. When somebody put together Jund Monsters for the first time, they did so with the already expensive Stormbreath Dragon, but innovated with it to do something new and good.
Then there's people like Tom Ross, who just won the SCG Invitational with his own deck that he has put hours and hours into. The deck was mono red, and was very cheap to build.
Your brews don't work either because you're a bad deck builder, bad player, or both. It is not because the only thing needed to win standard is a fat wallet.
June 18, 2014 2:33 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #24
Are we seriously taking the OP to another debate of net deck vs home brew?
C'mon.
June 18, 2014 2:39 a.m.
KnightsBattlecry001 says... #25
When I picked the game back up and playing at fnm and all that was during Zendikar/Scars blocks, so my answer is a little biased. That to me was when standard was at it's best. It's also when I was doing the best at fnm as well. So like I said my answer is a little bit biased.
June 18, 2014 2:41 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #26
Primeval Titan and his other colored brethren were legal. Dude, Standard was awesome during that period. I also returned to MTG at that time. As a Timmy, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn sealed the deal.
June 18, 2014 2:52 a.m.
KnightsBattlecry001 says... #27
Zendikar/Scars was so fun. There was so many different decks running around at FNM even with Cawblade being the thing to beat at the time. I liked cawblade but hated playing against it. That and having my opponent ramp into an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn . I also cringed sometimes when having to stare down one of the titans, because the deck I ran had zero removal.
That time period you could go in with a rogue deck and get top four with it. You could take people by surprise if the were not careful. That to me was the best time for standard and I miss the hell out of it.
June 18, 2014 2:58 a.m.
I started in ISD / RTR and enjoyed it immensely. I felt it had way more variety than RTR / THER, which we have now. However that's all I know because I haven't been playing long.
What epoch said is right though - ISD / RTR wad just midrange. However there was a lot of different midrange.
June 18, 2014 3:47 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #29
ISD/RTR was just Thragtusk: The format.
You could afford to play any kind of midrange deck because you had one of the most powerful midrange creatures of all time easily splashable.
It was terrible.
June 18, 2014 4:29 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #30
In general the answer to "What standard was the best standard?" is answered with whatever standard was when that player started. They see all these "new and great possibilities" and then ever since that time "there has been less variety." Unfortunately that just shows how the person got better at evaluating cards and mediocre cards stopped looking good.
June 18, 2014 8:15 a.m.
That might be true, although you can go back and check the variety of the top 8s in that day to see if you have an accurate memory, or just over optimistic memory. A greater variety of decks did exist during ISD / RTR than do now, or at least did when I last checked.
I'm really looking forward to the next block though, so excited. Theros just didn't capture my imagination, so next standard - looking good!
June 18, 2014 8:32 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #32
I have a buddy who swears there hasn't been a good standard since Lorwyn/Shadowmoor/Shards.
June 18, 2014 8:50 a.m.
Ravnica/Theros. We've got five top decks, always fighting for rankings, as one of them always loses to a particular other one (MUD loses against Sphinx's Revelation, but Sphinx's Revelation dies to Burn, which then has a disadvantage to MUD) unless it adapts (and because of that, loses to another deck/the deck it should be good against.)
There's also a bunch of fringe stuff, aka Selesnya Aggro, Orzhov Midrage, Junk Midrange, Dredge, MGD, and Reanimator.
The only people I hear complaning about this meta, are the rogue Deckbuilders, because they can't play Trading Post , Disciple of Deceit and Young Pyromancer .
Innistrad/Return to Ravnica was retarded, because Jund throned unbeatable. It wasn't the worst standard (Affinity, Cawblade, Delver) but it was awful.
June 18, 2014 9:59 a.m.
SkyRaider42 says... #34
I'd just like to talk about what Shmu said in regards to netdecking.
"it seems almost like any fool can buy a $500 netdeck and rock a standard FNM with no real skill or invention at all."Noone who wins a standard FNM gets 1st without skill or invention. Decks like MBD and MUD seem simple on surface, but require a lot of skill to play on the competitive level. Cards like Thoughtseize and Dissolve require knowledge of what deck you are playing against. Cards like Thassa, God of the Sea require knowledge of what cards you want to draw in this match. While I'm not saying any deck can be competitive with enough practice, I am saying those who win FNM win because they are the best at playing their deck
June 18, 2014 11:09 a.m.
Dalektable says... #35
Looking at the decks available, I believe INS/RTR woud have been a blast could i have afforded to run Aristocrats. That was when I really started playing (I played one tourney in SOM/INS and was destroyed), but I could only afford RDW's with my most expensive card being Hellrider at the time. However, I enjoyed playing I got to see a lot of variety. But I am still personally waiting for my time where I have a blast playing magic...I still haven't found my deck if you get what I mean. I feel like Aristocrats would have done it for me, but alas the time has passed.
June 18, 2014 12:47 p.m.
Am I wrong for liking Scars/Innistrad Standard? There were a lot of really fun things you do despite Titans still running the format.
But, really, all your arguments are invalid because Wolf Run Blue.
June 18, 2014 2:18 p.m.
miracleHat those were really good standard times,tribal decks everywhere: Goblin slide deck, green Elves, Zombies, Green beasts midrange, BG Cemetery, Slivers, Astral Rift control, RG LD (T2 land destruction was a beast), BW clerics, W weenie (soldiers)
for me those were great times, i cant talke much about other standard but dont like Theros/RTR much IMO Odyssey/Onslaught were better
June 18, 2014 2:47 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #38
Swagtusk was never really a problem for me, in isd/rtr.
Sure he's good, but when I'm winning on turn four, it wasn't the best.
June 18, 2014 2:50 p.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #39
@zandl yep! That Standard era was great, too. Pod was still a decent deck, if I recall correctly. I ran Wolf Run with great success. Miss it...
June 18, 2014 9:12 p.m.
@vampirelazarus I never found Thragtusk much of a problem either. Aristrocarts could handle it quite easy. It was always fun sac'ing my tokens with Blood Artist out to kill the opponent in response.
June 18, 2014 9:29 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #41
Nice.
My favorite instance of playing around Swaggizzles, was at a larger tournament (playing for a Black Lotus )
Round one was against this turbo fog maze's end deck, with my super aggro R/W deck.
(I won game one) Game two, he goes... Saruli Gatekeepers . In response, I Skullcrack him. Next turn, he did it again. So I hit him with another Skullcrack . He tried a third time, with the same result. Then he finally tried to resolve a Thragtusk . In response I hit him with my fourth Skullcrack .
I sided in four of them, started with two in hand, and drew into the other two.
I really ruined his day.
June 18, 2014 9:40 p.m.
That sounds amazing. That would have somethng to see.
I did a had a similar game against control where I won the game off of two lands when I was playing Aristocrats (I loved that deck. My favorite by far.) 4x Champion of the Parish into every human in the deck 2 mana or less. It was beautiful.
June 18, 2014 9:47 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #43
I never really played against aristocrats. It always seemed fun, though. If you play modern, there are a couple lists running around for a modern take on aristocrats.
June 18, 2014 10:46 p.m.
I wouldn't mind playing Aristocrats in modern, but form what I've heard the deck is under powered.
June 18, 2014 11:08 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #45
Yeah, I've never seen it actually be played, or win anything, but maybe its just looking for that one great pilot.
June 18, 2014 11:38 p.m.
miracleHat says... #46
@vampirelazarus; this should explain how the aristocrats work. Haven't watched this video in ages.
June 18, 2014 11:47 p.m.
I am sad to say that I started playing at the time of IST/RTR and didn't get to "enjoy" magic standard. Back then, I was that guy who went 0-4 every single FNM and never got to be the "master homebrewer" that I am now. Cuz trust me, IST/RTR was a homebrewer's dream! You could easily get top 8 with a weird 5 color control/midrange trash pile.
I played during SOM/IST for about 5 weeks and new nothing about magic (first 5 FNM's) and I was SUPER confused about what everyone else was doing. But now that I can comprehend it all... Sooooooooooooooooooooooo much fun that block was. I saw people playing Praetor reaniamator, people playing R/G Titan, and some people just playing infect.
Man do I wish I was around for Zendikar/SOM. As Master Homebrewer, it was probably (I have no idea) the sweetest thing ever! The fact that you could use 4 Birds of Paradise , 4 Primeval Titan , 4 of all the other titans, 4 Rampant Growth and whatever else there was to ramp into everything (ramp is by far my favorite archetype) seems CRAZY FUN!!! Even though I never actually played in Zendikar or even opened one pack of it, its my favorite block by far.
That's just my opinion. Master Homwbrewer out... Thanks for reading this long story I made (if you didn't I don't blame you) and happy deckbuilding!
June 18, 2014 11:51 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #48
I know how it works, just never played against it.
Sory if my previous comment came off as if I were confused about it and caused further confusion.
June 19, 2014 12:42 a.m.
miracleHat says... #49
No probs. Making html links doesn't take that much time. Plus it was fun to be reminded and watch it again. Now, i will say that the 2012 player's championship is a really fun video to watch.
Epochalyptik says... #2
ISD/RTR was trash, in my humble opinion. The meta was "play 3-4 color midrange or shove it."
I've heard decent things about Alara-Zendikar Standard, and I started playing during Zendikar-Scars Standard.
June 17, 2014 9:50 p.m.