With infinite mana, what would be busted?
The Kitchen Table forum
Posted on April 23, 2015, 10:54 a.m. by WicKid52
So, I've been playing Type 4 lately, which is a whole load of fun, and I'm trying to expand the stack. Part of the rules for Type 4 is that everyone has infinite mana that they can call upon at any time. So, aside from Glarecaster. Crowd Favorites, and x-spells, what cards are totally busted once you don't need to care about mana?
Sparda1127 says... #4
From Wikibooks:
Type 4 is a casual format with two fundamental rules:
Players may play spells for free (i.e., players have infinite mana)
Each player may play only one spell per round(this serves as a limitation to balance the first rule)
April 23, 2015 11:10 a.m.
Apparently its a real thing.
Type 4
In Brief: Type 4 is a ridiculous format, most often drafted off a specially prepared stack, in which all the biggest spells in Magic, no matter how mana-intensive, can come out to play.
April 23, 2015 11:10 a.m.
RussischerZar says... #6
Any card with firebreathing or a repeated activated ability that deals damage.
Would also like to know the specifications of Type 4, other than "you have access to infinite mana".
April 23, 2015 11:12 a.m.
EpsilonOblivion says... #7
Things with a Strive cost. You can use it as much as you want for no cost.
April 23, 2015 11:14 a.m.
Programmer_112 says... #8
Banefire Fireball Blue Sun's Zenith White Sun's Zenith Red Sun's Zenith Comet Storm Skitter of Lizards Dragonspeaker Shaman Deathforge Shaman Stroke of Genius Braingeyser Dimir Guildmage Damnable Pact Consume Spirit Profane Command etc.
April 23, 2015 11:16 a.m.
andymaul123 says... #9
Epochalyptik It's also known as DC-10, and pretty fun. We use our cube and just skip over the lands or mana-oriented cards as we go. Rules can be found at the bottom of Wotc's Casual Formats
WicKid52 Masticore was crowned as the original sweeper when the format debuted, so he's worth looking into. Mindslaver can be hilarious. We have a house rule that any spells that tutor have a five second time limit in which everyone counts down at you; makes tutoring really intense.
Our magic night is tonight, so I'll see if I can look through the cube a bit and find some juicy cards. In the meantime, here's a link from way back that shows some older cards :)
The Fourth Type
April 23, 2015 11:17 a.m.
Programmer_112 says... #10
Oops aside from x-spells. My bad.So Dimir Guildmage, Skitter of Lizards, and Deathforge Shaman still work.
April 23, 2015 11:21 a.m.
Programmer_112 says... #11
To have more fun, play stuff like Carnivorous Moss-Beast
April 23, 2015 11:25 a.m.
RussischerZar says... #12
I guess you would ban/exclude all cards that can instantly win or kill someone.
April 23, 2015 11:25 a.m.
The Doctor says... #18
Also as a side note, X spells are usually limited to X being 5.
April 23, 2015 12:30 p.m.
PepsiAddicted says... #21
Hah never ever heard of type 4 before.. Something new every day :)
April 23, 2015 2:28 p.m.
Thank you for your responses. to answer some questions, Fireball effects are banned, and 1-hit kills like Shivan Dragon are ok as long as they don't have haste.
April 23, 2015 9:23 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #23
Soul of Shandalar, Soul of New Phyrexia heck, any of the souls.
April 24, 2015 6:51 a.m.
The Doctor says... #25
If you're playing cards that instantly win you the game, you're playing Type 4 wrong.
April 24, 2015 10:01 a.m.
NoviceMagician says... #27
Really there is no way to play any form of the casual format "wrong." Everything is legal, and the players can do whatever rule changes they want if agreed upon by both parties.
I'll have to try out Type 4 sometime!
April 24, 2015 5:25 p.m.
The Doctor: we do allow cards that can generate infinite power or guys, like Wolfbriar Elemental, as long as they take 2 turns to kill, the turn they come down and the next attack. It's pretty balanced, actually.
April 24, 2015 6:22 p.m.
SimicPower says... #29
I was just reading over the type for rules, and I noticed this one?
When two abilities conflict-"Tap your creature with Crowd Favorites." "Counter that with Azorius Guildmage."-the defensive ability wins.What does that even mean? These rules were written in 2009, that is long after the introduction of the stack and priority. What?
I cast my vote for Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Uncounterable, hard to kill, and gives you an extra turn. Turn 1.
(I tried to find something broken that doesn't instant win the game)
April 27, 2015 6:01 p.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #32
Because you have infinite mana, you need a way to determine which of those abilities "Wins." In this case, when you have an activated ability that doesn't tap, and an activated ability that prevents that ability from resolving (and also doesn't tap), the preventative ability "wins." Otherwise, you'd be in a pseudo-infinite loop, because both players have access to infinite mana. It can be assumed that, in this case, Azorius Guildmage will ensure that the ability of Crowd Favorites never resolves.
April 27, 2015 10:16 p.m.
SimicPower says... #33
Oh, I see. But this leads to my second question:
What would happen if this happened in regular magic? If two players obtained "infinite" mana, what would happen in this scenario? It couldn't infinite loop and end the game in a draw because they are not required to activate the abilities, but they also have no incentive not to.
April 27, 2015 10:27 p.m.
SimicPower: presumably the one that gets activated in response, but that's just the one that makes sense to me.
April 27, 2015 10:37 p.m.
Programmer_112 says... #35
Well, this is covered in Rule 716.3:
Sometimes a loop can be fragmented, meaning that each player involved in the loop performs an independent action that results in the same game state being reached multiple times. If that happens, the active player (or, if the active player is not involved in the loop, the first player in turn order who is involved) must then make a different game choice so the loop does not continue.
Example: In a two-player game, the active player controls a creature with the ability "0: [This creature] gains flying," the nonactive player controls a permanent with the ability "0: Target creature loses flying," and nothing in the game cares how many times an ability has been activated. Say the active player activates his creature's ability, it resolves, then the nonactive player activates her permanent's ability targeting that creature, and it resolves. This returns the game to a game state it was at before. The active player must make a different game choice (in other words, anything other than activating that creature's ability again). The creature doesn't have flying. Note that the nonactive player could have prevented the fragmented loop simply by not activating her permanent's ability, in which case the creature would have had flying. The nonactive player always has the final choice and is therefore able to determine whether the creature has flying.
Basically, whoever's turn it is will "lose" this battle.
April 27, 2015 11:01 p.m.
The Doctor says... #37
Actually I believe it's whomever starts the loop, regardless of the turn, because they are technically creating a infinite instance of a delay of game.
Epochalyptik says... #2
What the hell is Type 4?
April 23, 2015 10:55 a.m.