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|Commander 2017 (C17)||Rare|
|Time Spiral (TSP)||Rare|
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Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Legendary Creature — Dragon Avatar
: Search your library for a Dragon permanent card and put it into your graveyard. If you do, Scion of the Ur-Dragon becomes a copy of that card until end of turn. Then shuffle your library.
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|Have (17)||johnsongrantr , Vasbear1 , Fineontheoutside , Wolfebladeelite , angesoir , DarkMagician , dizzierabit , corys , Spinalripper , chrishuffman95 , rikertchu , KingOfGrixis , Fairseas , AllDayTayTay , ztanos , Sparky41 , MoJoMiXuP|
|Want (2)||RedSinR , darthnuchi|
Scion of the Ur-Dragon Discussion
2 days ago
First, thank you for taking the time to check out the deck.
To answer your question, I do worry about people countering my Commander. Ultimately, outside of Cavern of Souls, I really just have to play the table to determine when it is a good time to cast Scion of the Ur-Dragon.
In regard to Lightning Greaves and similar cards: I do not really need to play around protecting my dragons once they are on the field, because I have so many recursion effects. The only removal I need to be weary of is "Exile" effects. Just last Wednesday (June 13), I had a Dragon Tempest on the field, and the opponents kept controlling/removing my dragons. Around turn 11 or 12, I was able to recur 8 dragons with Living Death to kill 2 opponents from the damage from Dragon Tempest directly. Then, I swung and finished the last one.
The particular playstyle of this deck wants to win in explosive turns like this. Take your time, play your options, and know that as long as your graveyard isn't exiled, you have a good chance of seeing your fiery beasts again!
6 days ago
I don't think you should claim the top tier decks netdecked.
Yes people may copy them, but they have to play them properly and tune them for their specific meta. They are generally the best (or most "powerful") lists, but not alone. Only when a good player takes them, and tunes them do they get truely powerful.
Lets take a comparison instead of to decks like General Tazri (hyper-efficient fast-paced combo) but more like decks in the likeness to Teferi, Temporal Archmage or Tana/Tymna Blood Pod. These decks are "Prison/Stax/Combo". Teferi can combo out super fast, like turn 3 without a god hand or anything, but more commonly sets up a lock, then uses Teferi, Temporal Archmage's -1 ability to get out of a Stasis or Winter Orb or Static Orb, etc.
On the other hand Blood Pod is a combo list that nearly never sets up combo wins until it has locked out each opponent. It has tons of stax and prison effects, and an easily tutorable wincon once each opponent is unable to respond. It is slow, but efficient.
The reason I bring up these decks is because if you claim being fast isn't necessarily good, you are right, but if it isn't fast, it has to lock out the opponents thoroughly. I'll take a look at every single prison/stax card you run. Then I will compare them. Enchantress can be built to be efficient stax, or fast-paced combo. This one clearly isn't fast-paced combo, so if you claim it is the "most powerful" Enchantress list. I would find it insulting if your deck isn't powerful. That would mean every other enchantress list is less powerful than a weak deck, wouldn't it?
Mystic Remora and Rhystic Study are the two cards that represent actual stax in your list. That is all. Ghostly Prison effects aren't really stax, and removal (unless it is land destruction) isn't stax either. The fact that your two cards that are stax are "may" triggers makes them some of the weakest stax. This isn't to say that they aren't good, but in fact only that they are not going to lock down the opponents.
This would make you incomparable to stax or prison lists, and you are too slow at combo to make up for it.
But maybe you just made a typo, because instead of "prison/stax/combo" you meant "control/combo", bit of a large typo, but I digress. Control is the last main archetype of the higher tier lists, and this deck appears to be closer to control on the face of it.
Control lists like Azami, Lady of Scrolls, or other lists try to build a draw engine, because otherwise they wouldn't have enough answer for each of the threats placed by the opponents. In this case Enchantresses are the draw engine. They normally run answers like removal and counterspells to stop locks set by stax decks, or slow down the combo decks enough for them to pull out their own combo wincon. In this case you run many combos. I wouldn't call it Control though, but I think that is the closest this deck is to a real archetype.
Why is it not control? in a 4 player game, which I assumed this deck was made for (it is under the tag "Multiplayer"), this deck needs to answer a lot of things. A The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale that the stax player dropped, the Hermit Druid that Scion of the Ur-Dragon combo player just dropped, or the Mystic Remora that's been drawing General Tazri a ton of cards. In Commander, there are tons of different types of threats to deal with. Since you don't run the catch-all Counterspells, you have all of 7 pieces of removal, and lets look at all 7 in total.
Banishing Light - Okay, this one is real removal, 3 mana may be exorbitantly high in terms of mana, but it hits a whole lot of things, so I will claim it works. Unless they spend one mana and a Nature's Claim, or any other 1 mana removal for enchantments.
Detention Sphere - Same as above, good with tokens, same glaring downsides.
Doomwake Giant - Well, this is a sweeper, and can trigger multiple times, but 5 mana is a lot for a deck with only a decent amount of ramp, hits hard on dorks though.
Oblivion Ring - Same as Banishing Light, but is better, you can sacrifice it in response to it's enter the battlefield effect to permanently exile a non-land permanent. It can also hit your permanents, for what it's worth, still too high on mana.
Tainted AEther - I mean, yes it can slow a few combos down, but at four mana it feel pretty mediocre.
Overall, your removal either is way to expensive to expect this deck to be considered control, and doesn't run nearly enough, or isn't a control deck.
If the deck isn't control, stax, or fast-paced combo, I ask you, what is it and how is it supposed to be the "most powerful" Enchantress deck? I apologize if you think I am hating on your deck, because I love seeing a fun deck with interesting limitations like no infinite comboes, but limited casual decks aren't the most powerful, and it is an insult to many deck builders to claim their lists are weaker than this.
1 week ago
Maybe it's just me, but I've always felt that Scion of the Ur-Dragon made a much better dragon commander than The Ur-Dragon. Four less mana, an ability that doesn't care how many dragons are in play, and shapeshifting. I just don't feel the Eminence matches up as well.
I would recommend two cards however. Worldgorger Dragon and Flameshadow Conjuring. Between these two cards you can get infinite ETB triggers, infinite damage with Scourge of Valkas and Dragon Tempest, and infinite card draw with Temur Ascendancy.
1 month ago
Thanks. Also, tried linking Scion of the Ur-Dragon, but it showed a deck instead of card.
1 month ago
Please link all cards by using double brackets around the card name.
No, the earliest that players receive priority in a turn is the upkeep step. By the time a player receives priority all beginning of upkeep triggers will have triggered.
1 month ago
First time poster on Tappedout. I recently built and have been playing this masterpiece of a deck. So I must tell you it is quite enjoyable to pilot. I picked up a copy of Helm of the Host and it didn't disappoint when I drew it. I noticed it hasn't been talked about much here so I just wanted to reiterate that if it goes unanswered it's a game ending card with the Commander and combos really well with a few other creatures for some nasty affects. On another note I actually run Borborygmos Enraged in my version, so I just fought my best friends Scion of the Ur-Dragon deck and I would have terribly lost without him. After turn 5 I wasn't getting my land drops so I used Natural Order on Oracle of Mul Daya to grab Borborygmos Enraged and his land discard ability saved my bacon for a couple of turns. My friend ended up killing himself with a Moltensteel Dragon because I used Maze of Ith. Anyways, it was a great game and just felt the need to share. +1 vote from me.
1 month ago
@ Last_Laugh, I don't have a way to get Primal Surge back from the yard and I'm not running very many tutors otherwise I would totally run it (especially if I was trying to make this competitive and oppressive). Both those land are good choices but I am running others in their place because I am trying to keep a decent number of basics for Sakura-Tribe Elder and Solemn Simulacrum to fetch repeatedly. To be a little more specific cards like Sequestered Stash and Ipnu Rivulet basically say "draw four/five cards" if Muldrotha is out and Geier Reach Sanitarium lets me trigger a dredge which I have found to be super helpful.
@ pyromaniac53, those lands just did't make the cut (see above). Dream Halls, holy crap I never even thought of using it. It would be absolutely bonkers! However the fact that my opponents would be able to take advantage of it makes me very wary of the card. I may test it out and see if it's worth dropping the $25 to snag one up (might also toss one in my Scion of the Ur-Dragon deck too since that would just be unfair!). Thanks for the Hulk suggestion, I run it in Meren so may as well put it in here. Seal of Doom and Seal of Removal were both in here but I always found myself recasting 'better' enchantments and using my Shriekmaw or something else to do the job of the seals. I decided to add Executioner's Capsule back in because I added Trinket Mage and he can fetch up the capsule or more importantly Amulet of Vigor to go with my awesomely stupid Hulk chain in the deck description.
I appreciate your comments, don't forget to +1 if you like the deck!
2 months ago
You don't seem to understand how Scion of the Ur-Dragon works. When you activate it's ability (and it resolves) you choose a creature card in your library to put into the graveyard and Scion of the Ur-Dragon becomes a copy of it. It doesn't just gain the abilities of the card, it also loses it's own abilities, so it can't become a copy of something else.
There's a trick to activating it's ability twice so you can use activated abilities while Scion of the Ur-Dragon is a copy of one thing then let it become a copy of something else, however it's difficult to use that trick with triggers, especially combat triggers as they require changing phases.
If Mirage Mirror becomes a copy of Scion of the Ur-Dragon normally, the legend rule will apply and one of them will be put into the graveyard as a state-based action, however once Scion of the Ur-Dragon is a copy of something, if it's copying a nonlegendary dragon, Mirage Mirror can safely copy it.
Putting this together you can actually use the trick I mentioned, but not to the extreme degree you were hoping. You can activate Scion of the Ur-Dragon's ability twice, let it resolve once, then have Mirage Mirror become a copy of it. You then let Scion of the Ur-Dragon's ability resolve a second time. The end result will be that one of them is Savage Ventmaw and the other is Hellkite Charger. This doesn't quite give you the infinite mana and combat steps you want, but you're generating 6 mana each combat and spending 7, so it's only a net cost of 1 mana per extra combat, a pretty good deal. If Scion of the Ur-Dragon is Hellkite Charger it will only take 5 combats to knock out one player with commander damage, while dealing 20 damage to another player with the Mirage Mirror. This would cost 10 mana total, 4 for Scion of the Ur-Dragon, 2 for Mirage Mirror, and 4 for the additional combats.