Turn One Kill...Monastery Swiftspear
Modern forum
Posted on Sept. 22, 2014, 12:12 p.m. by BlackyMTG
Mountain, Monastery Swiftspear , 3 Mutagenic Growth simian spirit guided Assault Strobe gg? I think monastrey swiftspear has a chance of being banned in Modern, whether it's because of the turn one kill or nah? It's still extremely powerful in the format.
derKochXXL says... #3
This could actually work well in an Immolating Souleater deck.
September 22, 2014 12:20 p.m.
No because Kiln Fiend is already a deck. Dies to most removal. This makes it more interesting though.
September 22, 2014 12:25 p.m.
I made a deck for this combo, it's not as consistent as it can be, but I'd rather have a consistent deck overall.
September 22, 2014 1:17 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #8
lol so never going to draw that hand in a real game ever...
September 22, 2014 1:23 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ I've never seen you make a positive comment on something...ever.
September 22, 2014 1:31 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #10
Soo ... if you don't go first you lose. Turn 1: Thoughtseize /Inquisition of Kozilek /Path to Exile /Fog /Holy Day /Silence /Dismember /Swan Song /ANY CREATURE.
Yeah I'd rather play infect. Or bant exalted.
September 22, 2014 1:32 p.m.
Femme_Fatale I was just stating it as a possibility.
September 22, 2014 1:39 p.m.
"so that thing you thought up? it sucks"
let the haters hate. if you played your entire hand and won on turn one with a weenie; i'd be pretty damn impressed. the chances of you drawing that exact hand on turn one is pretty minimal, but never stop imagining, never stop brewing
September 22, 2014 1:46 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #13
So?
Kiora_Fan-01 I've never seen you make a positive comment on something...ever, either.
September 22, 2014 1:47 p.m.
Gitaxian Probe actually makes this thing really close to being consistent.
September 22, 2014 1:48 p.m.
Kiln Fiend is already a deck, played in a gruul shell. This card will make it more consistent. You could also play Apostle's Blessing and other cards found in infect to make it less vulnerable to removal.
The thing is that infect is just better because it only has to do 10 damage, not 20.
September 22, 2014 2:58 p.m.
Eduardogbg says... #16
Kiora_Fan-01, I'm not trying to end up your hype, just saying that you should end it up by yourself:
You have 4/60 to draw Monastery Swiftspear , 4/59 to draw 1st Mutagenic Growth , 3/58 to draw the second one, 2/57 to draw the third, 4/56 to draw Simian Spirit Guide , 4/55 to draw Assault Strobe and 40/100 to draw a moutain (a little less because you wouldn't play 24 or 25 lands in a dedicated combo deck).
Actually there are some variations (such as drawing Growths first, or to instead of a mountain drawing a second Spirit Guide, but it's something near this).
Now luck at the chances of losing:
41/100 to fight against a Thoughtseize deck. then, 1/2 to not going first lastly 1/15 of being thoughtseized T1.
40/100 to fight against a Lightning Bolt deck, then, same as above.
1/5 to fight against a Path to Exile deck, 1/2 to not going first, 1/20 of getting PTE'd T1.
11/100 to fight against a Birds of Paradise deck, then, same as Bolt.
And the list goes...
September 22, 2014 2:59 p.m.
Cards are only banned when they warp an entire meta around themselves (Deathrite Shaman ), enable a deck to win constantly because of how powerful the deck already is (storm and half the banned list), or because the card durdles far too much and games never end ( Second Sunrise and Sensei's Divining Top ). This card will do literally none of those. Will it see play? Yes I think so. Turn one him, dies to removal, turn 2 Kiln Fiend which can swing less worried.
September 22, 2014 3:34 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #18
See I saw this card and thought something similar but completely different. You know how delver decks like to use cheap, one drop, spells like delver, Vapor Snag , and Lightning Bolt ? Well I'm trying Monastery Swiftspear out in place of Young Pyromancer . The rationale that I'm working with is that she will survive if I cast Pyroclasm and can get Goyf-like in size.
What I'm working on can be found here: U/R such a Troll
September 22, 2014 4:42 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #19
That was my thought to Ohthenoises. It replacing Young Pyromancer or potentially going hand-in-hand with young pyromancer is really useful. Any idea of it replacing Delver of Secrets Flip ?
September 22, 2014 5:03 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #20
Femme_Fatale doubtful. He's got evasion after all. Young Pyromancer just dies a LOT in 90% of the games I play him in.
September 22, 2014 5:18 p.m.
slovakattack says... #21
Femme_Fatale I don't play Delver, but isn't Flying an important aspect of Delver of Secrets Flip ?
Not that Monastery Swiftspear isn't awesome, but it can get chumped more easily.
September 22, 2014 5:24 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #22
slovakattack Yeah, that's why I replaced Young Pyromancer instead of Delver. There's also mana cost to consider. Lowers my curve even further.
September 22, 2014 5:39 p.m.
lookoutimscary says... #23
HAHAHA are you serious? Dude, have you ever seen Goblin Guide ? I seriously hope you're trolling.
September 22, 2014 5:52 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #24
Monastery Swiftspear is almost strictly worse than Nivmagus Elemental . That deck is weak enough to removal/disruption that it isn't played much at all. It's certainly never getting banned, and it's certainly never getting near good. Not to rain on your parade, but the deck is too fragile to stand up to tier decks.
Eduardogbg's math is a little shaky, but the point still stands that the hand that actually kills on turn 1 is very rare, and the chances of them having something is pretty high. I don't think the card fits into Delver either, as Young Pyromancer makes additional guys instead of putting all your eggs in a glass basket. (Is that even a thing?)
September 22, 2014 6:06 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #25
GlistenerAgent I'd have to disagree. Having a guy that can go toe to toe with goyf and not just swing into death is really helpful.
Young Pyromancer doesn't have haste, nor do his tokens. is a 2/1 that produces 1/1s that all die to pyroclasm (which owns delver pretty hard since everything in current lists is a X/2 or X/1. Also, YP is also a 2 drop, meaning that I can't drop it on T2 and keep Spell Snare , Vapor Snag , Lightning Bolt , etc. mana open. I can do that with swiftspear.
2 pumps to survive bolt is also HIGHLY relevant as is 3 toughness at 1 pump when RDW is in the mix.
September 22, 2014 6:16 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #26
To attack into a Goyf, you'd need to cast 2-4 spells on your own turn. Delver generally likes to keep counterspells up, so attacking into Goyf is actually a more feasible proposition with YP tokens than with a single Swiftspear.
I don't think many people play Pyroclasm in their sideboards anymore, if any. Tron maindecks them, but meh.
Regarding keeping up spells, Swiftspear doesn't benefit much from casting counterspells/other instants on their turn, as he'll still attack as a 1/2. Haste is nice, but 1-3 damage isn't anything to write home about. If there's something you need to bolt, you can untap and bolt it while also making a guy.
You should keep in mind that the deck doesn't have infinite spells to keep Swiftspear at high enough P/T. It's notable that the card is much less resilient to Abrupt Decay , Path to Exile , Dismember , and in general non-damage-based removal spells.
September 22, 2014 6:23 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #27
@ Ohthenoises and Femme_Fatale
God, I hope you're trolling.
September 22, 2014 6:31 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #28
GlistenerAgent I remember the same EXACT thing was said when Delver of Secrets Flip first came out. (Bad, dies to removal, but this, but that, etc) Not trying to say that this is going to be the next Delver or anything but my point is that "dies to X" is a terrible argument in modern because almost EVERYTHING in modern dies to something, and often.
What I meant by keeping up spells is that it gives me the flexibility and the option to do either. and often, the threat of pump is enough to let him go through unblocked.
I'm well aware that the deck doesn't have infinite spells but a stock delver deck has so much draw it's incredible. This easily supports a 3/4 swiftspear at minimum each turn.
September 22, 2014 6:31 p.m.
Dies to removal is a great argument when the removal costs less mana than the creature. In this case it doesn't so it's a terrible argument.
September 22, 2014 6:33 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #30
I still think leaving behind some guys is relevant when they do kill your creature. Of course, this is all speculative and I might just be horribly wrong.
The main issue for me is being almost forced to cast your spells on your turn if you want to get any reasonable clock with Swiftspear, while YP lets you sit back and make guys that will keep chipping away more quickly.
September 22, 2014 6:36 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #31
GlistenerAgent It does change the timing a bit that's very true. I've usually been saving Bolt and Snag for my turn since both of those are my "GTFO the way fool!" cards, at their end step v.s. my turn is irrelevant if I'm making sure to keep open at least Mana Leak , Spell Snare , or Remand mana for their turn.
Most of all I like the haste on the swiftspear, it allows for a more explosive series of plays where YP is far more "sit back and make dudes". I've seen YP attack maybe twice in all my experience playing him just because it wasn't smart to risk him.
A bolt to the face and a swiftspear is 1/4 of their life total, that's 2 mana for 5 damage in one turn.
September 22, 2014 6:44 p.m.
Eduardogbg says... #32
I think that Delver have too many options, and, even Monastery Swiftspear being good, it doesn't make the cut. I really like the ideia of keeping her up to block, bolt Goyf (4/5), targeting him with Twisted Image and killing him like a boss, though.
Now, in burn, a deck that cast everything in it's own turn (yeah, expect the few instants they might have), Swiftspear sounds really nice. T1 attacks for 1 (1), T2, cast 2 1cmc burn spells and attack for 3 (4, the same as Goblin Guide
). I still think Guide is better, BUT, runing 4 guides and 3/4 swiftspears may be a good idea.
September 22, 2014 6:47 p.m.
The reason Young Pyromancer dies every game is because your opponent must deal with it immediately or lose the game. It's why it fits so perfectly into Delver. You're already playing spells to protect your Delver, why not play a card that provides another threat once you're able to protect your guy?
It's not like they're going to walk into Remand when you have Monastery Swiftspear and they decide to play spells in their precombat mainphase. And in a tempo deck that wants to be reactive, you don't want to be casting mainphase Lightning Bolt s so you can make a bigger guy.
I like Monastery Swiftspear in a deck already running Kiln Fiend and whatnot (or even RDW), but I just don't see it being in a deck all on its own or replacing Young Pyromancer in Delver.
September 22, 2014 7:32 p.m.
forestlore44 says... #34
I think the biggest shortfall of Monastery Swiftspear requires you to be proactive and play out your spells just to keep its power/toughness high so you can punch through for enough damage to make it worthwhile, a In a Tempo deck like Delver, most of the time you want to be holding up your spells so you can be reactive to your opponent's stuff and protect delver. Swiftspear just doesn't mesh in this kind of build. Just too many hoops to jump through.
xzzane says... #2
Obvious troll is obvious.
September 22, 2014 12:19 p.m.