Pre Pioneer
General forum
Posted on July 5, 2025, 10:19 p.m. by jethstriker
Old School / 93-94 and Pre Modern have been around for quite some time. For those unaware, these are formats that has a fixed card pool where no cards are added or removed. The only changes happens when something is banned or unbanned. Old School has card legality of well, from expansions from 1993 to 1994. While Pre Modern follows it by having card legality from 4th Ed. to Scourge.
I was wondering if anyone has played or tried with the idea of Pre Pioneer? Something where it follows where Pre Modern has left, having card legality from 8th Ed. to Magic 2013. Since it closely resembles Modern at its creation, we can try with Modern’s initial ban list for it.
I’m aware fixed formats are not for everyone, but has anyone tried something like this? What are your thoughts and experience?
This was also when I started digging into the game. For the full list, it's
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8th Edition
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Mirrodin Block
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Kamigawa Block
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9th Edition
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Ravnica Block
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Coldsnap
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Time Spiral Block
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10th Edition
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Lorwyn/Shadowmoor Block
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Alara Block
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Magic 2010
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Zendikar Block
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Magic 2011
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Scars of Mirrodin Block
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Magic 2012
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Innistrad Block (introduction of Modern format)
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Magic 2013
The initial Modern banlist was Ancestral Vision, Ancient Den, Bitterblossom, Chrome Mox, Dark Depths, Dread Return, Glimpse of Nature, Golgari Grave-Troll, Great Furnace, Hypergenesis, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Mental Misstep, Seat of the Synod, Sensei's Divining Top, Skullclamp, Stoneforge Mystic, Sword of the Meek, Tree of Tales, Umezawa's Jitte, Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle, and Vault of Whispers.
Possible archetypes that I can see are Cawblade, Splinter Twin, Infect, Bloom Titan, Burn, Living End, Jund Midrange, Zoo, 12 Post, basically all the stuff that was popular in the first few years of Modern.
July 6, 2025 12:03 a.m.
jethstriker says... #4
legendofa nicely covers the specifics of this theoretical format. Although we may need to add the following cards to truly match the Modern ban list at the time these exact same list of card pool are legal:
July 6, 2025 4:55 a.m.
Metroid_Hybrid says... #5
I have also speculated on this very idea several years ago, and I've come to propose a pair of changes that would go a long way to prevent the meta from instantaneously, and permanently, turning into a snapshot of the "Modern" meta, circa immediately pre-(M15).
The first one is more subtle....
- Ban any-and-all "Timeshifted"(TSP) cards that didn't otherwise recieve a legitimate, pre-(M15), Modern-legal reprint.
This is mainly to establish the integrity of a (8ED)-through-(BNG); "pure-Modern"/"post-Legacy"/"pre-(M15)" format alongside the (4ED)-through-(SCG); "pre-Modern" format, and the inevitable revival of the "Frontier"/"post-Modern"/"post-(M15)" format..
It will also help keep Fish from getting out of hand...
The second change is a little more radical...
That is, to borrow a page from the "Pioneer" format and...
- Ban Fetch-lands!!!
This one/singular change would have more of an indisputably positive benefit for the hypothetical format than literally anything else!
Think about it: the "Modern" format has NEVER known a time without the "enemy" Fetch-lands from O.G Zendikar(ZEN)...
These two changes would go a long way to promoting a truly-healthy "Modern" format, for arguably the first time ever...
This would also open a dialog concerning the existing ban-list as well...
July 16, 2025 6:57 p.m. Edited.
Metroid_Hybrid says... #6
I only now noticed that you guys said that the proposed format capped at (M13).. But I still think that my proposed changes, along with the full(er) "Modern" card pool would be the better way to go...
Icbrgr says... #2
I have not tried it... I first started playing around this time so I'd definitely be interested but I think it would heavily hinge on the ban list... it's a very powerful era of cards to be sure but idk what would it look like for having a healthy meta while still having access to a lot of the flagship cards.
July 5, 2025 10:43 p.m.