Would an urborg the tomb of yawgmoth cycle be OP?
Custom Cards forum
Posted on July 22, 2014, 11:59 a.m. by MagicalHacker
Everybody loves Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth , but was it a mistake? Could a cycle of this card be done?
I have given thought to the fact that it may be a very black mechanic, since it is one of the colors, if not THE color, to count up it's basic lands. Flavorwise, the other colors could do it, although it might be a stretch for white to count plains.
To sum it up:
Would an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth cycle be flavorful?
Would an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth cycle be over-powered?
Would an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth cycle be fun?
Would an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth cycle be a mistake?
Flavorful? Not really. The only color that it would make sense for is Blue b/c it has cards like Spreading Seas . The rest don't really make sense. OP? Probably. Just look at the Uncommon/Rare cycle in JOU that cared about basic land types. Those cards would be infinitely better with a land that made all other lands that land type. Fun? It would definitely be fun, I've already thought of how cool it would be to have a Green one with Kalonian Twingrove . Mistake? If it'd be OP and not flavorful, I'd think it'd be a mistake. But that's just my two cents.
July 22, 2014 12:05 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
The Mountain, Island, and Forest ones would be powerful as hell in some formats. Forest would be especially boss in EDH.
July 22, 2014 12:12 p.m.
ChiefWannaHacka says... #7
Everyone pretty much covered why it be awesome or probably wouldn't work, but flavor wise I think it wouldn't make sense. Just reading the flavor text, and what little I know of Yawgmoth, his corpse/grave is literally infecting the land around it. Making them all swamps apparently.
July 22, 2014 12:25 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #8
Well, you could probably find a way to make the other four colors be infecting the land around them with justice, knowledge, fire and life respectively to make everything the colors they correspond to.
Another issue is that in older formats, too many three color deck would just jam one of each of these cards or something like that as a crutch. Not to mention the Modern pain of Scapeshift kicking incredible amounts of ass.
July 22, 2014 12:33 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #9
So if it would be OP for modern, what if they were printed in a non-standard set? Like a Commander set?
July 22, 2014 12:34 p.m.
Mythril_Sage says... #10
I could imagine the "blue Yawgmoth" would be rationalized flavorwise as a Great Flood that covers the world. =) I'd definitely add that to any deck that also played Stormtide Leviathan .
July 22, 2014 12:36 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #11
thispersonisagenius, it could also feel more flavorful if the names were "BLANK, Tomb of BLANK".
July 22, 2014 12:37 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #12
What about a Blood Moon cycle instead? It could probably be a little less broken.
July 22, 2014 12:43 p.m.
kungfuturtle says... #13
Absolutely not,
No
It would be the ultimate color fixing
Yes, just because a card would be good doesn't mean that it should be made, the flavor of the game must be maintained and to color shift one of the most flavorful cards in magic history would be a travesty, think in the same vain as green getting Lightning Bolt or white getting Brainstorm . Hell yeah if they made em I'd buy 4x foil of em but it would destroy the fabric of the color pie.
July 22, 2014 12:44 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #15
1 done: Cantivore
, Cognivore
, Mortivore
, Magnivore
, Terravore
2 Reserved list so unfortunately not
3 Learn the proper use of the shift key and constrain your excitement to 10 or less exclamation marks please. You are making this particular thread look like shit via no fault of the website's or the OP.
July 22, 2014 1:08 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #17
Me? No, the comment I replied to is gone. So actually I would appreciate it if my comment was removed too so as to not be confusing for future readers. Maybe even these 2 as well. There was a guy named "HESUSJAZZANOAH" being obnoxious and speaking in all caps as well as putting enough exclamation points to span 4x the width of my screen breaking out of the nicely formatted comment box.
July 22, 2014 1:59 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #19
Hmm, flavor for each of the four new lands:
R:
This land caused the world's tectonic plates to crack and rupture, creating new volcanos all over the world.
G:
This land caused life to explode out of even the driest of deserts, covering the entire world in thick growth of flora.
U:
This land caused the sky to pour down rain nonstop, creating a world-wide flood.
W:
I have no idea.
July 22, 2014 2:13 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #20
Your G one reminds me of the scene in Hellboy 2 where he kills the elemental.
July 22, 2014 2:16 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #21
... SPOILERS, DUDE!!!
Just kidding.
Since the lands make sense flavor wise, maybe a new land that does something similar to Urborg can be made in a way so that they are balanced. Something like this:
Tap an untapped land you control: Add B to your mana pool.
or
Each land you control is a Swamp in addition to its land types.
or
Land - Swamp
As long as this is tapped, each land is a Swamp in addition to its land types.
July 22, 2014 2:24 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #22
Ooh, I got it!
Thraben, Chapel of Piety
Legendary Land
Each land is a Plains in addition to its other land types.
Meletis, City of Philosophers
Legendary Land
Each land is an Island in addition to its other land types.
Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle Just kidding.
Sokenzan, Center of Mischief
Legendary Land
Each land is a Mountain in addition to its other land types.
As for the green one, I have no idea. The red one might be bad too. I tried to pick color-aligned places from Magic history that would reflect the color they make.
July 22, 2014 2:33 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #24
From now on, let's assume that none of these cards are modern legal.
July 22, 2014 2:47 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #25
Yeah since it would be one less thing Scapeshift would need out. Just rump to 7 lands and cast Scapeshift instead of needing Prismatic Omen too or more lands.
July 22, 2014 2:48 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #26
I think the red one would be powerful enough to make legacy Scapeshift a thing, hell I would try land ramp commander Scapeshift.
July 22, 2014 2:54 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #27
Nic-Fit is already sort of a deck in Legacy, and that plays some number of Scapeshift . Blood Moon would probably just rise in popularity of this cycle was printed. I would love to see my control opponent's face with a blue Urborg in play when I resolve Choke . :)
July 22, 2014 3:04 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #28
Crap. I just realized how incredibly idiotic that post sounded. Go me.
July 22, 2014 3:05 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #29
By creating a new cycle based off a land that is similar to Urborg, but not identical, we can circumvent that issue:
"Land - Swamp
As long as this is tapped, each land is a Swamp in addition to its land types."
July 22, 2014 3:05 p.m.
As Maro has said, You can use flavor to justify anything. But the mechanics need to make sense in order for it to be in color pie. I feel like Black is the only color that would care about making other things swamps because Black wants you to play more Black. E.g. Sign in Blood , Phyrexian Obliterator , Necropotence , etc.
I don't think Urborg was a mistake, but it does combo favorably with Cabal Coffers (as every EDH player knows and loves/hates).
July 22, 2014 3:07 p.m.
W - Land's flavor :
Kithkin were suddenly born extremely fast. They needed more food, and made all lands into Plains.
;)
July 22, 2014 3:17 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #32
While I can see where you are coming from, I don't think I agree that the color pie dictates black to be a color to want more of itself more than other colors. This list is not predominately black. Every color wants you to play it's color more, but I think black is just one of the obvious ones.
I think that this could be a balanced cycle of cards:
~
Land - Swamp
As long as ~ is tapped, each land you control is a Swamp in addition to its land types.
July 22, 2014 3:26 p.m.
ChiefWannaHacka says... #33
Having the "As long as ~ is tapped, each land you control is a swamp in addition to its other types." is useless in balancing. All you have to do is tap that land first for mana...
July 22, 2014 4:23 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #34
Now how about "~ doesn't untap during your untap step"? That doesn't solve all of the problems but it does prevent you from being a land up 100% of the time.
July 22, 2014 4:34 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #35
He is trying to circumvent the problem with Scapeshift and Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle not one of color fixing. It would require 8 lands instead of 7 for a kill since you would need to have 7 lands enter. This wouldn't matter since it would be turn 1 suspend Search for Tomorrow Turn 2 Farseek for the "all your lands are mountains'' land (he gave them the type "mountain") turn 3 you would be able to Skyshroud Claim and Sakura-Tribe Elder bringing you to 8 lands for a turn 4 Scapeshift . Come to think of it though this is a little slow and open to disruption for legacy.
July 22, 2014 4:46 p.m.
Mythril_Sage says... #37
I think if we're talking about an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth 'esque cycle, it must be consistent with how the legendary land works, else it's a half-hearted imitation.
Meaning everyone of them must read, "Each land is a [basic land type] in addition to its other land types." and be Legendary with no Land type of its own.
The only thing that would really influence in what formats they would be legal would be the interactions with other cards that exist in them. Easy enough for the company's R&D department to figure that out.
Anyways, is Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth really a staple in every black deck?
July 23, 2014 2:38 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #38
@Mythril_Sage Pretty much every heavy black deck in Modern will play one Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth . 8rack gets to play Mutavault s that can tap to cast Wrench Mind , and Rock or Junk decks get to play 3-4 Tectonic Edge and still have pretty good mana. Jund seems to avoid it for some reason, mostly because that deck has more tools in terms of lands (Grove of the Burnwillows , Blackcleave Cliffs , Raging Ravine ) and already has enough color intensity.
July 23, 2014 8:16 a.m.
BirkaBirkowski says... #39
They would only be able to print a green one, if that, otherwise red would immediately overpower modern. Boiling Seas , Flashfires .... Nobody needs that.
July 24, 2014 1:30 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #40
Outside of modern though, this cycle wouldn't do much except make the islandwalk merfolk of legacy too good.
July 24, 2014 1:42 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #41
@BirkaBirkowski Note that if the cycle is exactly the same as Urborg, those cards would destroy your lands as well.
July 24, 2014 1:46 p.m.
lothshteth says... #43
As been said the red and blue ones would be too good in their respective tourney decks. As much as I would like to see it happen it probably won't, but if it did definitely core set.
July 31, 2014 8:16 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #44
What if it wasn't modern legal? Like printed in a commander deck or something?
July 31, 2014 9:19 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #45
You guys are forgetting something. Read the card text of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth carefully.
What does it say?
It says, EVERY. And also doesn't dictate basic, nor does it dictate that cards in your deck are those lands so they aren't fetchable. So not only does it help you, but it can also help your opponent drastically.
The only reason why it would be over powered is because of the insane mana fixing it can do. But the problem is, is that they are legendary, and can't be searched for with fetchlands. You don't see Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in much modern play, even though it's been legal in modern for a long while. Standard? Oh yes definite include in every day there. EDH? Once again, yes. Definite yes. But modern? Modern has no cards that can abuse it very effectively. Sure there are some mentions, but nothing that can beat the current meta.
I personally think the cycle would go with a more Zendikar like block. One heavy with landfall and landwalk effects. Maybe we will actually get some good landwalk creatures, because you don't see them in modern all too often, because you can't guarantee they can be used.
August 2, 2014 7:05 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #46
Umm, pretty much every Rock deck and Junk deck plays an Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth . Every deck that wants to play heavy black and has other requirements will run one.
August 2, 2014 7:13 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #47
Okay I stand corrected, I never look at deck-lists anyways so I wouldn't know too much.
But I can say is that they don't break the format. Yes they're useful, but you won't be seeing full playsets in every deck from what I understand in the construction. More like you will be seeing them as 2 ofs.
I think it would be a good idea as it will encourage players to get INTO modern. Currently the most daunting thing about entering modern is the amount of money you have to spend on lands for any multi-coloured deck. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is listed on tcg under the M15 set as only about $6. That is a very cheap alternative that many players would really enjoy be useful as a mana fixer.
August 2, 2014 7:26 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #48
Well, part of the reason Urborg isn't a four-of is that it's legendary, and a legendary land no less (it's not going to die like your suicide attacking Geist of Saint Traft ). I do think such a cycle would be a cool way to introduce people to Modern, though some sort of restriction would probably end up having to take place for some members of the cycle.
August 2, 2014 7:29 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #49
I don't really think so ... not even Scapeshift , Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle decks would be broken by the Mountain one. That deck is easy enough to prevent on its own. The cards themselves don't impact modern enough as to what the fetches and shocks already do to the format.
Comicalflop says... #2
Unfortunately it would be overpowered for many reasons, but the biggest one is because the one in the cycle that makes all lands Mountains would be overpowered in the Scapeshift Modern deck to fuel Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle . That alone is reason enough not to do it.
July 22, 2014 12:05 p.m.