Goods ways to combat excessive ramp?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Sept. 21, 2017, 6:16 p.m. by chirz2792
In my group we have a guy that plays several green decks and all of them ramp like crazy. I don't mind but towards the middle of the game his turns start to drag and he'll spend 5-10 minutes doing all this stuff only to lose more often than not. My question is what's a good way to counter strategies like this? I've tried land destruction and while it slowed him down, I don't really know how to use it properly and he recovered quicker than everybody else. Would something else work better or do I just need to learn how to use land destruction? Nothing's off limits in my group except for the stuff on the ban list. I'd also like to not use an artifact deck as I find them incredibly boring.
Thanks in advance.
DrukenReaps says... #3
turn lands to creatures then kill them is funny. Well I find it funny. Karn, Silver Golem or Sydri, Galvanic Genius + Mycosynth Lattice can animate land or Kamahl, Fist of Krosa does it by himself. There are a few green enchants too but I forget their names... Then just play things that do -1/-1 to all creatures or destroy creatures etc etc.
Other options include Zo-Zu the Punisher and his edhrec page https://edhrec.com/commanders/zo-zu-the-punisher has additional things.
You could also work with him to help him speed up his decision making. Not during a game but before and after games or other non-game time ask him if you could just help him with the decks and how they work. Over time he should simply speed up as well, the more play time the easier these things get. I'm still famous for taking too long on my turns but I usually have a big impact on the game within the next 2 or 3 turns when I start taking too long or I die...
As a side note you are not playing artifact decks right :P
September 21, 2017 6:36 p.m.
Long turns aren't fun to sit through, but if they are losing more than not why waste card slots ?
September 21, 2017 6:41 p.m.
Two options in my mind - either A) get better at playing stax as you mentioned or B) win first. Ramp harder and win faster.
September 21, 2017 8:10 p.m.
Meh, MLD is less effective against heavy green ramp than you'd think. Often they have dorks and highly effective non-land mana sources like: Selvala, Heart of the Wilds. You go MLD on that and you've effectively shot yourself in the foot.
Someone mentioned Linvala, Keeper of Silence or you could go black heavy destruction with a bunch of instants to break it up.
Really, RED/WHITE color combo is fantastic for both narrowing options and forcing action. There are some underused, budget red cards that are great at forcing quick turns.
September 21, 2017 9 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #8
Another idea is to play cards that limit how many spells can be played on a turn. Ramping a bunch doesn't do as much when you can only play one card per turn due to Rule of Law
September 21, 2017 10:07 p.m.
In addition to Linvala, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite is lights out for like 99% of mana dorks.
September 21, 2017 10:10 p.m.
Izu_Korasu says... #11
Tunnel Ignus is a fun gem, Ankh of Mishra is an artifact zo-zu.
then there are cards like Damping Engine, Mana Maze, Ward of Bones type effects
but probably the best way (besides Door to Nothingness effects) is to tax their hand, with cards like Oppression, Pain Magnification, Painful Quandary etc ... limit the usefulness of ramp ... and while MLD like Wake of Destruction can be crippling, mass or targeted removal of rocks and dorks can have a similar effect, while being more useful overall.
September 22, 2017 11:40 a.m.
I should clarify that he doesn't use mana dorks, he just uses a shit ton of Rampant Growth and Exploration type effects. That said I do like a lot of these suggestions so far. I'm thinking that discard effects and cards that shut down tutoring might be the best way to go in my group just because they'll be effective against everybody and not just him.
Thanks for all the suggestions, you guys were a big help :).
September 22, 2017 3:11 p.m.
griffstick says... #13
I think a mill deck is the best defence against a ramp deck that only ramps for lands. There are so many cards for this that work great like Consuming Aberration, Mind Grind, Mind Funeral, there are so many more I just can't thing of them. But when someone only has like 10 or less lands left in his deck because he ramped so hard then it's easy to kill them out. Some mill cards are really strong in CMDR like Tunnel Vision
September 22, 2017 3:36 p.m.
AwesomeOctopus says... #15
It depends if you want to have friends or not, or how tollerant your playgroup is to cut-throat plays that many consider un-fun. Because the easy answer to your question is mass land destruction a la Armageddon but many consider that a dick move
October 9, 2017 10:25 p.m.
griffstick says... #17
Why is that 100 bucks and I never heard of it befor
October 14, 2017 6:53 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #19
I also think that playing cards like Aven Mindcensor will go a long way. Unfortunately, there are only a small pool of cards that stop tutoring: MagicalHacker - List of All Anti-Tutor Cards
mentor6 says... #2
Aven Mindcensor Leonin Arbiter Stranglehold Mindlock Orb. If their mana dorks Linvala, Keeper of Silence
September 21, 2017 6:22 p.m.