Suspend 3— (Rather than cast this card from your hand, pay and exile it with three time counters on it. At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When the last is removed, cast it without paying its mana cost.)
, Sacrifice Lotus Bloom: Add three mana of any one color to your mana pool.
|Want (2)||Catalack , Darui|
Printings View all
|Modern Masters (MMA)||Rare|
|Time Spiral (TSP)||Rare|
|Promo Set (000)||Rare|
Combos Browse all
|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Latest Decks as Commander
Lotus Bloom Discussion
1 week ago
Otherwise basically what jaymc1130 said.
1 week ago
It really depends on the situation though I will say that I believe the card comes in against me regardless. Basically, if I am relying on mana created via Pentad Prism or Phyrexian Unlife then yes, an early Wear / Tear can be really effective and slow me down to the point where you can put on enough pressure to beat me. Keep in mind though you have to have the clock to back up your removal or else I can always rebuild.
With this said there are scenarios where Wear / Tear will not feel very good against the deck. Notably against Lotus Bloom if I have Angel's Grace and Ad Nauseam. When the Lotus Bloom comes off of suspend it is correct to attempt to blow it up (generally at upkeep), but if I have the combo the Wear / Tear really is just a way to force me to go for it then and there. Now if you have a counter to back up the Wear / Tear then this line has the potential to be very good and I have to play more conservative, but more often than not its ineffectual and acts more like a check on whether I have it. If I don't, again you need to back up the clock before I get to the mana I need.
All in all though to provide a quick answer, yes Wear / Tear is solid against Ad Nauseam but does come with its drawbacks and can look silly sometimes depending on the situation.
1 month ago
Thanks for the comment, about 6 months ago the answer to that question was generally yes, now, while it will put me at a severe disadvantage, it does not remove my ability to win thanks to Thassa's Oracle, specifically the game wining combination of Thassa's Oracle, Spoils of the Vault, and either Phyrexian Unlife or Angel's Grace. There is also the outside possibility I can win using Simian Spirit Guide to beat you down. In fact, while effects like Necromentia are very good against Ad Nauseam, there are some nuances to playing it correctly.
Necromentia and similar effects such as Lost Legacy or Unmoored Ego have the drawback of being 3 mana, this effectively means that you have to be smart about your name, keeping in mind whether you are on the play or the draw. For example, if I have opened the game by playing a Pentad Prism on turn 2, I may not be so inclined to name Ad Nauseam on turn 3 if I am on the play, the reason for this being that the more immediate win is the Thassa's Oracle method outlined above. The name in the face of that combo will depend some on circumstance, but generally Angel's Grace or Thassa's Oracle would be the correct choice. On the draw I'm almost always naming Ad Nauseam with something like Necromentia as in order to cast Necromentia one has had to have passed the earliest window for the Thassa's Oracle kill.
I would argue however that Thoughtseize + Surgical Extraction is a generally more powerful and efficient means of combating me as it can be done on turn 1, but Necromentia and its ilk are very effective. One other thing to note is that sometimes lines will present themselves that may seem awkward, let's do a thought experiment and say you are on the play, I pass turn 3 with a Lotus Bloom coming down next turn meaning, in essence, you have to assume that I can win next turn. You go to turn 4 and draw a Necromentia; you play a land and have 4 mana available. In hand you also have a Thoughtseize. The tempting play here would be to fire off the Necromentia and name Ad Nauseam, likely preventing me from winning next turn and buying you, in all likelihood, a lot of time to just land a threat and beat me. However, the correct sequence here would be to Thoughtseize first and look at my hand. For sake of argument we will say that my hand is Angel's Grace, Ad Nauseam, a land, and Lightning Storm. Again the tempting play may be now to take the Ad Nauseam or the Angel's Grace, but the correct answer is to take Lightning Storm, especially considering your hypothetical hand. With Lightning Storm gone, the only card left in my deck that actually wins the game is Thassa's Oracle, meaning you can then Necromentia that away and win on the spot. This could seem like an obvious line to you but I have had people miss it in the past and feel its best to have this articulated on this page.
In short then, yes and no, you don't technically win the game by naming Ad Nauseam with Necromentia, but fundamentally the game is probably over unless I find the auxiliary combo fast enough. Thanks again for the comment I hope my response was adequate.
3 months ago
I finished my draft of mono white belcher and would appreciate if you guys checked it out. Here is the link: https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/pure-belcher/
Self promoting aside Lotus Bloom might be a card worth considering.
3 months ago
So, here's what I'm thinking:
Pyroclasm(2 copies or so)
Thought Scour for consistency
Ratchet Bomb because repeatable specified wraths is fun.
Grave Peril can also control the board.
Locket of Yesterdays can help reduce mana costs of reanimating spellbombs.
Os Mox Tantalite worth running?
Pithing Needle seems great.
Renegade Map for land draw?
3 months ago
Monomanamaniac, while I don't know what the designers of Breach were thinking, I'm sure they were not concerned about this interaction. I agree that it is not very intuitive, but the rules (namely the two that we quoted) explain why you can't use Breach to cast Lotus Bloom. Moreover, the rulings on the Gatherer are far from comprehensive and are not kept up to date. Rarely will the rulings on a card be updated. For questions that are fairly niche (like this one), the CR, someone that knows the CR well, or a judge (like myself) should be consulted.
3 months ago
blobman122: The "Accepted answer" has been changed to reflect the correct answer to the question. Lotus Bloom can be cast with the alternate cost given by Vadrok, Apex of Thunder, but not with the alternate cost given by Underworld Breach.
3 months ago
The specific example you pointed out with Lotus Bloom would not work.
Underworld Breach gives nonland cards in your graveyard Escape with an Escape cost equal to that costs mana cost plus exile three cards from your graveyard. The problem is that Lotus Bloom has no mana cost. This is an unpayable cost, so you can't Escape cast it (118.6). This is the same reason you can cast Lotus Bloom from your hand.
That said, it's CMC is still 0. Since Vadrok, Apex of Thunder allows you to cast some without paying it's mana cost, you can cast Lotus Bloom with Vadrok's trigger.
Hope this helps!!
118.6. Some objects have no mana cost. This represents an unpayable cost. An ability can also have an unpayable cost if its cost is based on the mana cost of an object with no mana cost. Attempting to cast a spell or activate an ability that has an unpayable cost is a legal action. However, attempting to pay an unpayable cost is an illegal action.*