Katilda and Lier

Legendary Creature — Human

Whenever you cast a Human spell, target instant or sorcery card in your graveyard gains flashback until end of turn. The flashback cost is equal to its mana cost. (You may cast that card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.)

Legality

Format	Legality
1v1 Commander	Legal
Archenemy	Legal
Canadian Highlander	Legal
Casual	Legal
Commander / EDH	Legal
Commander: Rule 0	Legal
Custom	Legal
Duel Commander	Legal
Highlander	Legal
Legacy	Legal
Leviathan	Legal
Limited	Legal
Oathbreaker	Legal
Planar Constructed	Legal
Planechase	Legal
Quest Magic	Legal
Tiny Leaders	Legal
Vanguard	Legal
Vintage	Legal

Discussion (5)

Neotrup on interaction with katilda and lier

11 months ago

Small addendum to point 1: Twice Upon a Time is a legal target for Katilda and Lier's ability and should allow you to cast Unlikely Meeting with flashback for {2}{U}. It will be exiled on an adventure allowing you to cast Twice Upon a Time later. All other cards with an adventure (at this time) are permanent cards and invalid targets as mentioned above.

Gidgetimer on interaction with katilda and lier

11 months ago

So, I'm going to break this down into individual answers to questions so that it hopefully flows better and is more understandable.

1. Can Katilda and Lier give an adventure flashback? No, Adventure spells only have the characteristics of their creature half in any zone besides the stack. (CR 715.4)
2. Can it be sent on an adventure rather than exiled if I do flashback an adventure?/Can the creature be cast if I give the card flashback? There is currently no way to give creatures flashback, so it is a moot point. As a thought experiment, if something gave just cards flashback and didn't specify instant or sorcery cards; you could cast the adventure, but not the creature. Flashback specifies "if the resulting spell is an instant or sorcery" as a condition of flashing it back. (CR702.34a)
3. Can I choose to cast the back side of an MDFC card if its an instant or sorcery? There are currently no MDFCs that are instant and/or sorcery on both sides, so again moot point. With the current rules, I'd say that if you were able to somehow give a card with an instant/sorcery back flashback then you should be able to cast it since it fulfils the requirements of flashback (CR702.34a) and MDFC allow you to choose which side you are casting when an effect allows you to cast it. (CR712.11b)
4. What about if I give flashback to a MDFC that only the front is an instant or sorcery can I cast the back? No, it doesn't meet the requirements of Flashback. (CR702.34a)
5. If I have Katilda and Lier and give a Flawless Maneuver flashback can I cast it for free if if control my commander even though I am casting it from my graveyard? No, both flashback and "casting without paying its mana cost" are alternate costs. You can only choose one alternate cost to pay for a spell. (CR601.2b)

715.4. In every zone except the stack, and while on the stack not as an Adventure, an adventurer card has only its normal characteristics.

702.34a Flashback appears on some instants and sorceries. It represents two static abilities: one that functions while the card is in a player’s graveyard and another that functions while the card is on the stack. “Flashback [cost]” means “You may cast this card from your graveyard if the resulting spell is an instant or sorcery spell by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost” and “If the flashback cost was paid, exile this card instead of putting it anywhere else any time it would leave the stack.” Casting a spell using its flashback ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2f–h.

712.11b A player casting a modal double-faced card or a copy of a modal double-faced card as a spell chooses which face they are casting before putting it onto the stack.

601.2b If the spell is modal, the player announces the mode choice (see rule 700.2). If the player wishes to splice any cards onto the spell (see rule 702.47), they reveal those cards in their hand. If the spell has alternative or additional costs that will be paid as it’s being cast such as buyback or kicker costs (see rules 118.8 and 118.9), the player announces their intentions to pay any or all of those costs (see rule 601.2f). A player can’t apply two alternative methods of casting or two alternative costs to a single spell. If the spell has a variable cost that will be paid as it’s being cast (such as an {X} in its mana cost; see rule 107.3), the player announces the value of that variable. If the value of that variable is defined in the text of the spell by a choice that player would make later in the announcement or resolution of the spell, that player makes that choice at this time instead of that later time. If a cost that will be paid as the spell is being cast includes hybrid mana symbols, the player announces the nonhybrid equivalent cost they intend to pay. If a cost that will be paid as the spell is being cast includes Phyrexian mana symbols, the player announces whether they intend to pay 2 life or a corresponding colored mana cost for each of those symbols. Previously made choices (such as choosing to cast a spell with flashback from a graveyard or choosing to cast a creature with morph face down) may restrict the player’s options when making these choices.

YStar27 on interaction with katilda and lier

11 months ago

P.S.

if i have Katilda and Lier and give a Flawless Maneuver flashback can i cast it for free if if control my commander even though i am casting it from my graveyard?

YStar27 on interaction with katilda and lier

11 months ago

if i have a Katilda and Lier can i cast the adventure half of a non-instant/sorcery spell from my graveyard with flashback, if i can am i allowed to send it on an adventure as it resolves rather than exiling it from flashback, furthermore if i give a spell with adventure flashback am i able to cast the spell itself rather than its adventure. also can i choose to cast the back side of an MDFC card if its an instant or sorcery? what about if only the front is an instant or sorcery can i cast the back anyway?

thanks

legendofa on BBEG Deck Ideas

1 year ago

For my breakdown here, I'm focusing on characters who are villains in their story arc and characters who don't have much specific backstory. Pretty much any legendary creature can be flavored as a villain in front of the right deck. I'm also not focusing on the Forgotten Realms sets, I'm broadening the net.

What's available:

{C}: Eldrazi or artifacts. Most of the artifacts are either hero-aligned or not an independent threat, like Graaz, Unstoppable Juggernaut. If you want a challenge, Omarthis, Ghostfire Initiate, but I wouldn't, just for lack of depth.

{W}: Villains are oddly centered on Old Kamigawa. Konda, Lord of Eiganjo is a near-immortal emperor and master duelist. Hokori, Dust Drinker is destroying resources and the land. And, of course, there's the apocalyptic, unrelenting evil that is Hazduhr the Abbot.

{U}: Heidar, Rimewind Master is an elementalist fanatic. The manipulations of Orvar, the All-Form or Kami of the Crescent Moon could cause problems, as could a big sea creature like Tromokratis or Charix, the Raging Isle.

{B}: Pretty much everyone. It's easier to count the people who aren't outright villains.

{R}: Relatively few actual villains, but a bunch of manipulators, dragons, and angry people that could fill the role.

{G}: A bunch of wild animals and nature types. No scheming villains, but a good selection of rampaging monsters. Meng Huo, Barbarian King would be a unique choice (if you're willing to.proxy or drop $150+).

{G}{W}: Polukranos Reborn  ^Flip is the most (only?) villainous character in these colors.

{U}{B}: Lots of options, from the behind-the-scenes manipulation of Lazav, Dimir Mastermind to the illithid Captain N'ghathrod, Gisa and Geralf's necromancer army, whatever Umbris, Fear Manifest is, and a lot more.

{G}{U}: A few options, but lots of depth in them. Insane biologist Momir Vig, Simic Visionary and his magnum opus Experiment Kraj, nature's avenger Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath, or maybe Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait is flooding the area.

{B}{R}: A very deep and wide pool for villains. Vampires, demons, dragons, demon dragons, warlords, torturers...

{B}{G}: Grakmaw, Skyclave Ravager joins the ranks of the big scary monsters. A more calculating BBEG would probably be one of the death lords like Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord. Vhati il-Dal or Old Rutstein or probably more storyline villains than BBEG material.

{G}{W}{U}: A very shallow pool. Storvald, Frost Giant Jarl, Rubinia Soulsinger, and maybe Falco Spara, Pactweaver or Katilda and Lier (mostly because of Lier) are the best options for an Archenemy villain. I'd throw Kros, Defense Contractor in, but goading is kind of limited when you're the Archenemy.

{W}{U}{B}: This color set will probably be either a cold, distant, merciless villain or a manipulative puppet master. Raffine, Scheming Seer and Oloro, Ageless Ascetic fall into the first category, and Sen Triplets and The Ever-Changing 'Dane in the second. Varina, Lich Queen is another option for a zombie army.

{B}{R}{G}: Big, angry, and violent, with some good dragons. Xira, the Golden Sting and Vazi, Keen Negotiator break out of this mold, but they strike me as more lieutenant-types, not arc villains by themselves.

{R}{G}{W}: Not much; these tend to be either heroic or big smashy monsters. Uril, the Miststalker could work.

{R}{W}{B}: Queen Marchesa is a classic, as you mentioned, and Edgar Markov is right there, too. Actually, this color set has some good depth and variety for an Archenemy. Some are more overtly villainous, and some are just very martial. My top picks would be Edgar, Licia, Sanguine Tribune, or Tariel, Reckoner of Souls.

{G}{U}{R}: Mostly either weird esotericism or "nature's avenger" types. I don't think any of these are outright villainous in-story, but most of them have loose or vague stories. With the right deck, this could be a unique and interesting villain. Riku of Two Reflections is my top pick.

Four-color sets in general: Any of them would work, except for a couple of the {R}{G}{W}{U}.

{W}{U}{B}{R}{G}: Use this color set if you want a truly apocalyptic feel. saluma mentioned Tiamat, which is a very good choice, and finding a way to get through Progenitus or O-Kagachi, Vengeful Kami is a story of epic scale.