|Commander / EDH||Legal|
Printings View all
Combos Browse all
Braid of Fire
Cumulative upkeep-Add (Red) to your mana pool. (At the beginning of your upkeep, put an age counter on this permanent, then sacrifice it unless you pay its upkeep cost for each age counter on it.)
Braid of Fire Discussion
2 days ago
king-saproling- I'm so glad you like the deck! It's one of my favorites to play and I appreciate the suggestions.
Herald of Leshrac is one I've not heard of, and I like it a lot for disrupting opponents and gaining free mana! If your playgroup is cool with you thieving lands, go for it.
Marsh Flitter is a token generator and a free sac outlet. Huh, I'll keep an eye on it for future.
Grinning Ignus only works at sorcery speed and returns itself to our hand, which we don't want. I like where your head is at for mana generation, though.
Carnival of Souls is a fascinating and risky way to squeeze in more flips. It does put restriction on our timing as we have to use the mana when it is created, and is a nonbo with our infinites, as they often involve putting infinite creatures into play, which would drain us at the same rate as our opponents. I think you could try it and it would be a coin flip whether it won or lost you individual games just by itself.
Braid of Fire , Black Market , Imperial Recruiter , Mana Echoes , and Teferi's Puzzle Box are all cards I have considered playing, and would certainly be reasonable inclusions! I have not included them because I don't currently own them and they are expensive.
Mindmoil would not be a good inclusion because we don't want to play spells from our hand if we can at all avoid it. It does allow us to stack the bottom of our library, but it's 5 mana do nothing, and scry to the bottom if we have spare mana after that.
Vessel of Endless Rest seems unimpactful for 3 mana and we have creatures and artifacts that do the same thing repeatably, which is what we're looking for to win.
Junktroller is great for recursion, but unfortunately it taps to activate, making it hard to go infinite. Spending the mana to activate Epitaph Golem or Reito Lantern is honestly just more reliable and abusable than tapping, as we do not run untappers.
K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth is a spicy include, though I have chosen not to do so because he only gets pumped off of casting, and doesn't contribute to a combo. He would be useful for getting black creatures out of our hand, and I assume combos with Blood Celebrant , but we have 1 card that performs that combo by itself: Treasonous Ogre .
Blood Artist I've gone back and forth on. It absolutely is worth an include, but I find that we have enough payoffs once infinite is achieved so I replaced it with redundancy in other places, like token generation
Sifter of Skulls has 4 power, which automatically excludes it from this build. It is important to get Grenzo out early to start building the value engine, so we cast him for X=1.
Here is the primer I took my inspiration from. I highly recommend reading it to get the general philosophy and lines of the deck! https://www.mtgnexus.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=22095
2 days ago
This is a really cool deck! What do you think of these? Junktroller , Braid of Fire , Black Market , Thran Turbine , Herald of Leshrac , K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth , Blood Celebrant , Blood Artist , Imperial Recruiter , Cathodion , Grinning Ignus , Mana Echoes , Carnival of Souls , Dross Scorpion , Transmogrifying Licid (jumps on goblin welder to combo with dross scorpion)
2 days ago
Cool deck! What do you think of these? Shifting Shadow , Magebane Armor , Hammer of Nazahn , Needletooth Raptor , Silverclad Ferocidons , Coalhauler Swine , Mogg Maniac , Spiteful Sliver , Pariah's Shield , Repercussion , Illusory Ambusher , Deep-Slumber Titan , Chain Reaction , Trove of Temptation , Braid of Fire
4 days ago
Thanks for the rec. I looked at Braid of Fire during the brewing process, but decided to keep it on the side until I play tested a little more.
It goes nicely with Ashling, but not much else in the deck. There are very few spells and abilities that I would want to (or even can) activate during my upkeep, so its benefit typically caps out at on turn 6 for 2 free +1/+1s on Ashling on my upkeep. By that point, I should have enough mana to be able to clear anything on the table already.
That's not to say it's a bad swap for a mountain, just the effect didn't warrant the price tag for me.
4 days ago
I mean it’s stupid expensive now, but Braid of Fire could be a good include to the deck.
2 weeks ago
I like your deck! It has a similar flavor to my Grixis Twisted Group Hug (No Pain, No Gain!), where I can help with cards and effects, but at a cost. The idea was a Zedruu the Greathearted , but with black, black being my favorite Mtg color. I invite you to take a look at my deck and draw some inspiration from it. One of the principles of the deck is that I don't target destroy/exile/counterspell anything; "that wouldn't be nice, from a good guy that helps you, eh?". I personnally found that Illicit Auction and Pain's Reward are such fun cards and can hurt a player so bad at the same time ! You could also consider any cards with the Join Forces and Tempting Offer mechanics. If I do help someone, it is not everybody, like I originally would have like. So to be honest, I may rename my deck "Grixis Bitter Hugs" -because I think it is more accurate than "Grixis Twisted Group Hug"- if you don't mind. While commenting, I took time to update my deck's description, which was pretty much empty before lol
You could also add Anvil of Bogardan , Oracle's Vault , Outpost Siege , Vance's Blasting Cannons Flip, Bloodgift Demon , Indulgent Tormentor , Well of Lost Dreams ... Phyrexian Arena is a must, Rhystic Study is a beast (but pricy $), Mystic Remora is great and you could add also Braid of Fire , comboing with Luminarch Ascension . For more lands, add Land Tax , Knight of the White Orchid , Weathered Wayfarer , Sword of the Animist , Thaumatic Compass Flip, Journeyer's Kite ...
3 weeks ago
Nice! You might like these: Blood Mist , Berserkers' Onslaught , Gratuitous Violence , Inquisitor's Flail , Tenza, Godo's Maul , Hero's Blade , Seize the Day , World at War , Final Fortune , Knollspine Dragon , Mana Geyser , Smoke , Flamekin Village , Hanweir Battlements , Braid of Fire
1 month ago
This thread is mainly concerning Commander and especially some of the issues that pertain to certain colors, this thread will focus on white. The color's strengths and weaknesses and what they share with other colors. If you just want to see the heart of the thread and skip the pretext, jump down to the segment named "The suggestions".
First of all I'd like to direct attention to TappedOut's Berryjon and his articles of Pattern Recognition concerning some of white's color pie identity in the following links. If you need to refresh or get a better understanding of what white is all about, please go read them, they are quite good:
This is a brief summary of those articles;
It is a color of community and unity, as seen with Anthems , promoting going wide rather than green's strong. As an effect of this white usually has smaller creatures but they often have keywords like first strike, lifelink, vigilance, indestructible, and others. As a consequence, white has the largest collection of evergreen keywords as a primary identity, sitting at 7 keywords, where the next highest is blue at 5.
(source on keywords: https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Evergreen)
White is also a color that desires lifegain for the sake of lifegain. Whilst a color like black likes to gain life to use it as payment for other effects, white simply hoards life for the sake of hoarding life. White shared this feature with green in the early days , but green has since moved on to something a bit different . In the earlier days white also had a variety of prevention mechanics but it got phased out, mostly because it wasn't a very good mechanic and caused nothing to happen in a match.
White is in many ways "peaceful" but can also be destructive. For creatures the destruction is total and symmetrical or very specific but at an alternative "cost" that is not exacted on you but rather benefits your opponent.
And the same is mostly true for enchantments. White has an affinity for auras, but as most know, auras have a glaring issue that so far hasn't been solved without pushing the auras extensively. White shares the love / hate of enchantments with green.
White's strengths can be roughly summarized in
Going wide and buffing wide
Large collection and occurance of keyword abilities on creatures
Gains life the most efficient
Can deal with pretty much any permanent
Affinity for artifacts and enchantments
White's weaknesses can be roughly summarize in
Little opportunity for interaction with instants and sorceries, meaning white often just takes the punishment, with some exceptions
Going wide often clashes with their desire for balance that blows everything up
Lifegain outside aggro match ups is often not that valuable by itself
Of white's strengths, they share lifegain with black and green. They share mass destruction with black and red. Their removal options on creatures is general for all, but black does it better, and red can conditionally be more efficient but generally not for Commander. Red can perform better on the artifact removal and in the more flexible artifact/enchantment removal, white gets bested by green, especially at multiple spot removals. Blue (and to a certain degree red) can utilize artifacts better, and green utilizes enchantments better.
There's a lot of white's strengths that they share or can be found in another color. As such white is a very flexible color but the old saying is also jack of all trades, master of none.
However the biggest strike white has in Commander is the lack of resource acceleration, this can both be mana ramp but to a larger degree it's card advantage. Blue is obviously master of straight card draw, black has a long list of trading something for card draw, green can get it through dropping creatures (or enchantments ), having many creatures or in rare occasions to off their own creatures , and red has recently been getting a push for temporary card draw or card draw while at a disadvantage . White is still kinda stuck on having mostly cantrips and a few weak conditional card draw engines . Other than that, they have to rely on artifacts for their card draws.
This combination of master of none and no real card draw is one of the reasons why white struggles in Commander as a singular color.
The Command Zone produced an analysis of over 300 games of mostly 4 players, and white came out as the color with the least win rating. And not just monocolor, but decks that contained white.
(Link to a Reddit-hub for said analysis, showing both data and video analysis: https://www.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/9r4emn/full_data_dump_from_the_command_zone_statistics/)
However this data and analysis is incomplete and cannot be used as a definitive way to compare the colors, as the amount of games is only 316, differing power levels may occur and some conditions may apply to the play groups. However differing power levels and soft-bans is also part of what Commander is, it is first and foremost a casual format.
I've seen a few people argue that white could look like that because one of their stronger archetypes, resource denial, is frowned upon or directly banned . I don't quite agree and frankly I understand the reasoning behind frowning on effects that grinds the game to a halt. If you can lock and kill your opponents easily with Armageddon , then I don't mind it as much. But I would rather not just wait around for that player to slowly grind the rest of the players out. And there's no bearing in "well, you could just concede" - which is basically saying you might as well not play.
As such I really hope white's multiplayer strength does not have to come from mass land destruction, but instead that we can find ways to make white better in the format.
We have recently received Sevinne's Reclamation which some have speculated could be a way for white's color pie to indirectly gain mana ramp through lands, by returning low CMC permanents from the graveyard.
Now, that was a lot of pretext to get to the heart of this thread:
White in Commander or perhaps multiplayer in general needs some way to gain card advantage. Every other color has come up with ways to achieve it and white is kinda still stuck.
So far white's card draws have been conditional on doing something else that results in a card draw.
Mentor of the Meek , Dawn of Hope , Puresteel Paladin , Kor Spiritdancer , and Sram, Senior Edificer are the only real card draw engines in white. They are all quite narrow or have a cost associated with it. I don't believe white should just get straight card draw, but they need something less constricting/more generic to help out white as a whole.
Suggestions on card draw Show
"Life gain variant
Whenever you gain life, put that many resource counters on ~.
Remove three resource counters from ~: Draw a card."
It's conditional to lifegain, which white likes to do, but it's also a 3 CMC do nothing enchantment that needs some help to start producing cards.
"Land trigger variant
Whenever a land enters the battlefield under an opponent's control, if that player has at least 3 lands, you may draw a card unless that player pays ."
Sort of a Rhystic Study but for lands - making it overall worse, as people start playing more cards later in the game and one or less lands at that time. It's also delayed so it cannot provide bonus too early. Triggering for each opponent makes sure it functions better in multiplayer than 1-on-1.
"Attack trigger variant
Creature - Soldier
Whenever you attack with three or more creatures, ~ gets indestructible until end of turn.
Whenever a creature you control attacks, put a resource counter on ~.
Remove all resource counters from ~: Draw a card for every two resource counters removed this way.
White likes going wide, so drawing advantage of that could be a possibility. It's also a relatively early but weak creature.
Having to remove all counters to gain advantage means it can get awkward to attack with an odd number of creatures and then pop the ability as you effectively lose half a card.
That it doesn't have to attack to gain counters is a way to keep it safe, but the indestructibility makes it easier to do. The trigger is on attack contra on combat damage, as white has a lot of on-attack triggers and it functions well with Holy Day and Reconnaissance .
I don't think the creature is strong enough to see play in Modern, and I picture it gets printed in a supplementary set like Modern Horizons 2, so skipping Standard.
These are just examples on what could be a direction to take white's card draw solution. But by all means, I wouldn't mind seeing all three of them available. I still think other colors does it better in general so I wouldn't imagine it causing issues that white gets in on some of it.
Another issue I see with white is how they have a lot of cost expensive cards but no real mana ramp outside artifacts.
Green is obviously covered, black usually cheats mana costs, red is not that heavy on costs but do have some rituals to grant quick mana and in some scenarios the Braid of Fire . Blue has been getting a lot of mana boosting through non-mana artifacts with Urza, and they tend to untap their permanents, generating mana. White is again getting the short end with less to show for direct mana ramp.
As mentioned before, we have recently gotten Sevinne's Reclamation (and Brought Back ) which could be an indirect source of mana ramp, by restoring lands from your graveyard. I think this would be a fine way to utilize white's color pie and their ability to restore permanents.
Let's get to some suggestions
Suggestions on land ramp Show
"Direct land restoration
Return up to two target land cards from your graveyard, put up to one onto the battlefield and the rest into your hand."
It requires some lands in the graveyard, so either that Land Tax and discard, an ETB sacrifice land or fetchlands are required, making it worse than straight mana ramp but not impossible to achieve either. It could help if more variants of fetchlands like Terramorphic Expanse gets printed. Obviously it can also be used to make Field of Ruin or any utility land run another turn on the mill if they get blown up.
"Small CMC restoration
Return target permanent card with converted mana cost 2 or less from your graveyard to the battlefield.
If you control three or more creatures - return up to two such permanents instead."
Indirect mana ramp with aforementioned cards and more flexible. Can be utilized to resurrect some utility permanents instead. Later in the game, the effect is scaled a little. It could definitely help white but could also be a strong utility card for other types of decks.
So with all that said and done. What is your experience with white in Commander? Can you recognize these issues? What do you think needs to be done?
And of course, you're more than welcome to share your ideas and suggestions of cards and mechanics that can help white in multiplayer formats and Commander.
Braid of Fire occurrence in decks from the last year
Commander / EDH:
All decks: 0.01%