Why is Moonring Mirror not played in commander?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on April 24, 2015, 2:17 p.m. by Eraser
Moonring Mirror Maybe Im not reading this card correctly, but it seems like it would just be an excelent card for Red/and or White Commander That struggles a lot to gain card advantage without Giving free cards to everyone.
The way im reading it, It basically Gives you Two Hands. Whenever you draw a card, you put another card into your "other hand". Then whenever your hand gets low, you can just "Switch" on your upkeep, and stack up the other hand.
It also seems like it could be played together with things like Scroll Rack or to make a set up like a hand that is proactive, and one that is reactive.
If im wrong about what this card "does" then is there good reason other than "dies to removal" that it doesn't get played in EDH?
Maybe 2 or 3 turns Slow can be acceptable in commander. Especailly in color identity that Card advamtage illudes. It makes all the "Draw/discard" from red like Daretti, Scrap Savant twice as good. it almost makes Tibalt helpful. It also makes Howling Mine and Temple Bell Give you 1 extra card Vs being equal across all players. You can even control what goes into the other hand with Sensei's Divining Top. White can utilize it with all its Tempo cards that let you draw a card when you play them. or the Cycling Lands...
I guess all im saying, is it makes all the things that those color identities do about deck manipulation, better. Seems like it should be played at least in some of the Causal decks that i see hundreds of here on tapped out, but its so "Not played" thats its currently a whomping $0.25 on SCG right now! lol
Ill repost the thread I suppose. thanks.
April 24, 2015 2:50 p.m.
I'd rather just resolve a Consecrated Sphinx. When you're working with slow card advantage, it needs to be on that level of power.
April 24, 2015 2:56 p.m.
Thanks. Consecrated Sphinx is Blue. in the realm of "Draw 20 cards" of course it wouldnt be played there. lol
April 24, 2015 3:05 p.m.
rockleemyhero says... #7
just play Memory Jar or Mind's Eye in those colors instead?
April 24, 2015 3:26 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #9
I hadn't seen it before. It doesn't look bad, but I actually am not sure it'd generate cards fast enough. In my R/W deck (Anax and Cymede), by the time I'm able to pay 5 mana, I probably want more up front. The cards that I have at that mana point in my deck have more immediate impact typically- some don't really kick in until next turn (without haste), but they all are aimed more directly at winning.
Even Staff of Nin can ping things NOW and will be straight-up adding a card to my hand next turn instead of giving me that card where I can't get to it right now. Staff will grow my hand by +1/card a turn, Moonring Mirror only offers me the option to access the alternate hand once per turn.
I don't think it's bad but it's slow. For comparison, I stopped even using Mind's Eye because by the time I have the 5 mana to play it, I typically have other, more decisive things to do with my mana right now, or else other players do, and I need to be able to respond to them. It is interesting though that Moonring Mirror offers its form of card advantage without using the draw mechanic though.
Minor issue also: Of course it's vulnerable to removal obviously; I don't think this is a big downside but I know people that hate the idea of some of their cards being where they can't get to them.
April 24, 2015 3:40 p.m.
nobu_the_bard says... #10
rockleemyhero mentioned Memory Jar - I like the comparison. Memory Jar gives you seven cards right now, which is excellent for many circumstances. It can be used immediately or you can hold onto activating it. In practice, in most of the games I am serious about playing a 5-6 mana card-draw artifact, 7 cards is probably more than I'd get from the alternatives when people are slinging around Vandalblasts or Austere Command.
April 24, 2015 3:47 p.m.
It's just so damn slow. There's no deck in existence I'd put this thing in. Even on budget, every color has better option for draw. This thing is only good if you have acceleration and it's in your opening hand. It's an awful topdeck.
April 24, 2015 3:49 p.m.
There is also the fact that you can only use it on your upkeep so theoretically if you spend 5-7 turns getting cards if someone destroys it before your upkeep the cards are gone forever. You also can't see what you removed which can lead to awkward hands
April 24, 2015 3:58 p.m.
by the time you have 5 mana available, is about the same time you need to be worried about running out of cards, so I really dont see it as a terrible topdeck, if you are "topdecking" in commander... you need to fix your deck manipulation.
and Im not saying one should play it "over" memory jar, or mind's eye. Those type of cards are exactly why Moonring Mirror Doesn't have to be slow. If you play Memory Jar You draw 7 cards, and you get to play them for that 1 turn, and unless you have let this card sit "open to removal" like you have to let the mirror set, you've already burned up 5 of your mana.
But if you had mirror out, then hey, you draw 7 cards, and you just added 7 cards to your "extra hand". or Minds Eye can load up both of your hands.
Maybe its just my particular meta that likes to Wrath of God Damnation Blasphemous Act or otherwise blow up the world 3-5 times a game. Ive found this hard to recover from unles you are either playing blue, and can draw a mess of cards, or Black and bring them back from the graveyard. boros/gurul/selesnya color's struggle to come is probably the biggest reason people dont play those identities in multiplayer and they are sort of Shrugged off as "1v1" only.
I have also been considering the applications of having a 2nd hand against a Discard control type deck. By the time they have 1 hand milled down, you've built up a new one.
It sure would have been a lot better card if it was an activated abilty to switch hands, something reasonable like 1 or 2 and a tap... but how it is, really should be well enough to make it in some of the budget builds at least...
This card sees less play than One with Nothing and thats a crying shame.
April 24, 2015 5 p.m.
Isntitizzet says... #14
In red or white I can think of several options that are better right now.
Faithless Looting seems legit, especially with flashback.
Also, Chandra, Pyromaster, Commune with Lava, Act on Impulse, and Outpost Siege are where you want to be for real.
April 24, 2015 5:54 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #16
It's not actually card advantage imo because it requires you to get rid of what hand you do have (albeit temporarily). If you want some possibly viable cards to amass card advantage slowly, check out MagicalHacker - List of All Draw Spells (Steady). If you want some possibly viable cards to gain card advantage all at once when cast, check out MagicalHacker - List of All Draw Spells (Burst).
April 24, 2015 6:36 p.m.
I think it's also worth pointing out that if you chose to run mono red EDH or something similar, you should know that you aren't going to have access to Rhystic Study.
April 24, 2015 6:43 p.m.
Megalomania says... #18
Considering how much it costs and how you need to run a ton of cards that have good synergy with it for it to be really useful, i'd probably just use draw engines or cards like Scroll Rack and Sensei's Divining Top. They are far more efficient and useful in a wider variety of decks.
April 24, 2015 9:56 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #19
I use it. It is a good budget option. Not great for competitive though.
April 25, 2015 4:53 p.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #20
Red also has access to Wheel of Fortune, one of the best draw cards in the format, and Reforge the Soul, a mediocre version of Wheel. In white, you have a highly efficient card advantage engine with Scroll Rack and Land Tax, both of which are extremely useful without the other.
In completely colorless land, you have Memory Jar, as has been mentioned, as well as Skullclamp, Sensei's Divining Top, Mind's Eye (which is too slow for most decks, in spite of being faster than mirror), Mask of Memory, Sword of Fire and Ice, and in both colors, you've got access to planeswalkers that generate card and/or board advantage.
And those are just off the top of my head. These are all more efficient than the moonring mirror, which generally takes until turn 8+ before you're gaining significant card advantage, if nobody's touched it.
April 25, 2015 4:59 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #21
I have a few of those in there. I just want to keep from spending money on it. If I trade into some of those others, and use them in there, then it would come out.
Rhadamanthus says... #2
The Rules Q&A section is intended to be for questions related to game rules, tournament rules, and card function/interaction. This is a topic better suited to the Commander subforum.
Moonring Mirror is interesting, it's just kind of slow. You have to wait a while before you start getting an appreciable benefit from it.
April 24, 2015 2:24 p.m.